Quantum Chaos Theory

[drkitten]

This is making me too angry, I will post in a weeks time when I have learnt calculus, bye for now.

Cool. So I can expect your answers to the two problems upthread next Thursday?

I'll be waiting.

 

[drkitten]

Meh... I liked drk's answer better...

"One does not applaud the tenor for clearing his throat."

 

[Jimbo07]

Cool. So I can expect your answers to the two problems upthread next Thursday?

I'll be waiting.

Erm... assuming we actually get an answer, how do we prevent cheating? Maybe cheating will be good enough if it's correct...

"One does not applaud the tenor for clearing his throat."

I do, but then, I'm easily impressed.

 

[Complexity]

This is making me too angry, I will post in a weeks time when I have learnt calculus, bye for now.

On another note, Complixity do you believe in mathematical intuition? As I suspect you don't, being a fan of Turing.

I very much believe in mathematical intuition.

Of course, who knows what you mean by the term.

I appreciate what I understand of the work of Goedel, Turing, and many others. I'm not aware of being a fan of anyone.

Once again, I don't think you have a clue about what you're talking about.

I think you really need to work on algebra and trig first. That will leave five days for the calculus.

 

[arthwollipot]

I've always wondered: what is 'New math,' anyway? Can anyone summarize?

This is quite long, for a summary, so I'll put it inside a Spoiler tag to save screen real estate.:

Some of you who have small children may have perhaps been put in the embarrassing position of being unable to do your child's arithmetic homework because of the current revolution in mathematics teaching known as the New Math. So as a public service here tonight I thought I would offer a brief lesson in the New Math. Tonight we're going to cover subtraction. This is the first room I've worked for a while that didn't have a blackboard so we will have to make due with more primitive visual aids, as they say in the "ed biz." Consider the following subtraction problem, which I will put up here: 342 - 173. Now remember how we used to do that. three from two is nine; carry the one, and if you're under 35 or went to a private school you say seven from three is six, but if you're over 35 and went to a public school you say eight from four is six; carry the one so we have 169, but in the new approach, as you know, the important thing is to understand what you're doing rather than to get the right answer. Here's how they do it now.

You can't take three from two,​

Two is less than three,​

So you look at the four in the tens place.​

Now that's really four tens,​

So you make it three tens,​

Regroup, and you change a ten to ten ones,​

And you add them to the two and get twelve,​

And you take away three, that's nine.​

Is that clear?​

Now instead of four in the tens place​

You've got three,​

'Cause you added one,​

That is to say, ten, to the two,​

But you can't take seven from three,​

So you look in the hundreds place.​

From the three you then use one​

To make ten ones...​

(And you know why four plus minus one​

Plus ten is fourteen minus one?​

'Cause addition is commutative, right.)​

And so you have thirteen tens,​

And you take away seven,​

And that leaves five...​

Well, six actually.​

But the idea is the important thing.​

Now go back to the hundreds place,​

And you're left with two.​

And you take away one from two,​

And that leaves...?​

Everybody get one?​

Not bad for the first day!​

Hooray for new math,​

New-hoo-hoo-math,​

It won't do you a bit of good to review math.​

It's so simple,​

So very simple,​

That only a child can do it!​

Now that actually is not the answer that I had in mind, because the book that I got this problem out of wants you to do it in base eight. But don't panic. Base eight is just like base ten really - if you're missing two fingers. Shall we have a go at it? Hang on.

You can't take three from two,​

Two is less than three,​

So you look at the four in the eights place.​

Now that's really four eights,​

So you make it three eights,​

Regroup, and you change an eight to eight ones,​

And you add them to the two,​

and you get one-two base eight,​

Which is ten base ten,​

And you take away three, that's seven.​

Now instead of four in the eights place​

You've got three,​

'Cause you added one,​

That is to say, eight, to the two,​

But you can't take seven from three,​

So you look at the sixty-fours.​

"Sixty-four? How did sixty-four get into it?" I hear you cry.​

Well, sixty-four is eight squared, don't you see?​

(Well, you ask a silly question, and you get a silly answer.)​

From the three you then use one​

To make eight ones,​

And you add those ones to the three,​

And you get one-three base eight,​

Or, in other words,​

In base ten you have eleven,​

And you take away seven,​

And seven from eleven is four.​

Now go back to the sixty-fours,​

And you're left with two,​

And you take away one from two,​

And that leaves...?​

Now, let's not always see the same hands.​

One, that's right!​

Whoever got one can stay after the show and clean the erasers.​

Hooray for new math,​

New-hoo-hoo-math,​

It won't do you a bit of good to review math.​

It's so simple,​

So very simple,​

That only a child can do it!​

Come back tomorrow night. We're gonna do fractions.​

 

[HawkeyeMD]

This is quite long, for a summary, so I'll put it inside a Spoiler tag to save screen real estate.:

I'm so glad someone posted that.

 

[Thing]

And here, hot off the pre-press is a short survey by Eugene Bogomolny of the relationship between the Riemann Zeta function and Quantum Chaos. It's got a few typos but is fairly readable.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0708.4223

Since I'm paid by the UK government to work on certain bits of quantum chaos I'd be happy to answer questions about it to the best of my limited ability.

 

[JonnyFive]

Do tables count as 'tricks?'

And MATLAB is lazy...

I just got a copy of Matlab (student version), but I haven't had the chance to actually do anything with it. I figured I'd play with it on weekends when I'm not working or doing coursework.

As I progress with my coursework, I hope to be able to actually do something useful with the damn thing.

No doing homework with it, though. That is kind of cheating, and the actuarial tests don't allow you to haul in a laptop loaded with Matlab, last time I checked.

What? Only 27 integrations-by-parts for this question? Hand me that pencil...

We need paper... lots of paper.

Nobody likes calculus, if you did you would be a freak of nature.

Why wouldn't someone like it? It's amazingly useful, its practical applications are readily apparent with the slightest degree of study, and it provides solutions for what would otherwise be nasty problems.

You talk a big game about how math is the only useful thing, and everyone either studies math or is useless, but then you let crap like this come out of your mouth. How old are you, anyway, twelve?

Nice! A succinct summary of a high school junior's attitude looking at next year's schedule...

I kind of get that feeling too.

When I was in high school, I really wasn't very interested in math, so I only took algebra and geometry, plus physics (which included trig but not calculus). When I got to college, I realized I had been a dumbass, so I initially took college algebra and pre-calc.

Once I finished my first degree, I realized that I really did like the math a lot, so I started a program with it as a major.

I'm a mathematical late bloomer, apparently.

Okay I withdraw my claim.

Then why even make the claim in the first place, if you knew you were full of it? Did it sound good at the time or something?

That concepts are more important then being a machine. You know reasoning instead of rote memory.

That's a pretty immature view of the subject.

Calculus is foundational in mathematics. You won't be able to evade it if you wish to learn mathematics.

When I had finished my first degree and started researching the actuarial exams, I found that calculus forms a kind of massive wall for many elements of other mathematical fields. I love probability, and I grasped the basics of it quickly, but I hit that wall when I got to the elements that require calculus, because I hadn't studied it yet.

Without calculus, one will have a very, very hard time trying to navigate the world of higher mathematics. There's a reason why its a prerequesite for pretty much all higher math at most universities.

This is making me too angry, I will post in a weeks time when I have learnt calculus, bye for now.

Yes... yes... give in to your anger!

What, is this the equivalent of "I'll show all of you!" or something?

 

[becomingagodo]

Yes... yes... give in to your anger!

What, is this the equivalent of "I'll show all of you!" or something?

I should have used the word annoyed. Mathematician our idiots, that why they haven't solved the RH problem. The only decent mathematician alive Grigory Perelman, however he quit maths because of moral reasons. Also, as you say I can't prove I have learn calculus so it is pointless to say I am doing it "to show all of you." If calculus does not suck then I will admit I was wrong, if it does suck I will not rub it in peoples faces. If I can't learn it I will admit I am dumb or lazy.

I very much believe in mathematical intuition.

A computer scientist who has a avatar of Turing believes in mathematical intuition, I really don't believe that.

I appreciate what I understand of the work of Goedel, Turing, and many others. I'm not aware of being a fan of anyone.

Every time I look at your username I see a picture of Turing, Why have you got a picture of Turing if you not a fan?
Take away the picture of Turing and you will not look like a fan boy of him.

 

[JonnyFive]

I should have used the word annoyed.

Yeah, well, you didn't.

Mathematician our idiots, that why they haven't solved the RH problem.

Suuuure it is. It must be that. I'm sure you'll be solving it any day now, right?

The only decent mathematician alive Grigory Perelman, however he quit maths because of moral reasons.

Only decent mathematician alive, eh? Why do you keep making generalizations like this, anyway?

Also, as you say I can't prove I have learn calculus so it is pointless to say I am doing it "to show all of you."

Let me tell you a secret, becomingagodo. Come closer... that's right: lean in so you can hear:

I don't give a crap if you learn calculus or not.

I asked if it was the equivalent of that, because of how you wrote it, but I frankly don't care. You act like a little kid here. If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to act more like a mature adult (even if you aren't, it really doesn't matter here as long as you act like an adult).

Honestly, your attitude on this forum hasn't exactly filled me with a deep and abiding respect for you.

If calculus does not suck then I will admit I was wrong, if it does suck I will not rub it in peoples faces.

How could you possibly quantify this? If you feel that it sucks, then that's your opinion. I don't think it sucks, personally. The idea that you could rub an opinion in people's faces is quite juvenile.

If I can't learn it I will admit I am dumb or lazy.

It's not about being dumb or lazy, necessarily. You said you learned calculus in 20 minutes, which was apparently a lie... and a ridiculously overblown lie at that.

In any case, calculus can be a difficult subject. Many people find the concepts involved to be noninuitive and difficult. I remember that one poster here remarked that they were unable to get their head around the whole dY/dX thing. That is understandable, it's not for everyone.

Unlike you, judging by your posts in the thread about children, I don't think that inability to do math makes one an idiot. There are many other disciplines that add to the sum total of human existence. I, for one, am pretty bad when it comes to human anatomy and physiology (I took one semester of it when I was a freshman at college and got a C... it was pretty brutal). I would probably make a mediocre doctor at best, but I am extremely grateful that there are people out there who understand the medical concepts that I have trouble with, in case I ever get sick or injured.

 

[Complexity]

A computer scientist who has a avatar of Turing believes in mathematical intuition, I really don't believe that.

Every time I look at your username I see a picture of Turing, Why have you got a picture of Turing if you not a fan?
Take away the picture of Turing and you will not look like a fan boy of him.

How time flies...

What do you mean by the term 'mathematical intuition'?

What is it about Turing that makes you think he didn't believe in or benefit from mathematical intuition?

I have a picture of Alan Turing for my avatar because I respect him and his work.

His work, dignity, and health were ripped away from him by force, resulting in his suicide. I will do what I can to honor this man and to encourage others to learn about him.

I'm not a fan of anyone because I'm not fanatic about anyone.

I respect and honor a great many people. I am quite passionate about several given what I have learned about their lives and their work. Some have given me great joy. This is much better than being a mere 'fan'.

The picture of Turing stays.

 

[Jimbo07]

Also, as you say I can't prove I have learn calculus so it is pointless to say I am doing it "to show all of you."

I'm sorry about the cheating comment. Just present any solution. It's a relatively straightforward concept.

If calculus does not suck then I will admit I was wrong,

How will you know?

If I can't learn it I will admit I am dumb or lazy.

I joke that I'm dumb and lazy both! However, don't say that before you start. I did for years. Forget calculus, I didn't get proficient at mathematical thinking, in general, until well into university (by 'mathematical thinking' I really only mean 'hard work' ). I did NOT do well in high school calculus.

A computer scientist who has a avatar of Turing believes in mathematical intuition, I really don't believe that.

Why not? Like anything, even intuition can be honed...

 

[becomingagodo]

How will you know?

Intuition

I have a picture of Alan Turing for my avatar because I respect him and his work.

That makes you a fan boy.

This is much better than being a mere 'fan'.

No it isn't.

What do you mean by the term 'mathematical intuition'?

The opposite of logic.

In any case, calculus can be a difficult subject. Many people find the concepts involved to be noninuitive and difficult. I remember that one poster here remarked that they were unable to get their head around the whole dY/dX thing. That is understandable, it's not for everyone.

Have they got any learning problems? As I don't see how you cannot understand calculus or learn calculus. Well, unless your lazy then learning calculus would be impossible.

What is it about Turing that makes you think he didn't believe in or benefit from mathematical intuition?

He believed humans where robots. Robots can't have intuition.

I, for one, am pretty bad when it comes to human anatomy and physiology (I took one semester of it when I was a freshman at college and got a C... it was pretty brutal). I would probably make a mediocre doctor at best, but I am extremely grateful that there are people out there who understand the medical concepts that I have trouble with, in case I ever get sick or injured.

I have no comment, but I will like to add how can you suck at something so easy? Human anatomy is just remebering facts, which is simple. Physiology is abit harder, but still easy.

 

[Complexity]

I think I've added enough salt.

He's stewing in his own juices quite nicely.

 

[becomingagodo]

Man, this is stupid. I'm wasting my time talking to you. Well, I will do something worth while before I end up like you, you know lazy. Bye

 

[Complexity]

Bye!

 

[Jimbo07]

I have no comment, but I will like to add how can you suck at something so easy? Human anatomy is just remebering facts, which is simple. Physiology is abit harder, but still easy.

Good grief.

 

[drkitten]

Erm... assuming we actually get an answer, how do we prevent cheating? Maybe cheating will be good enough if it's correct...

You know, call me a cynic -- call me a pessimist -- call me Ethel, if you must -- but I'm not sure BAGO has the skills and contacts even to cheat his way to answers to those two problems.

 

[JonnyFive]

Have they got any learning problems? As I don't see how you cannot understand calculus or learn calculus. Well, unless your lazy then learning calculus would be impossible.

No, I don't think they have learning problems.

Do you honestly think that acting like a jerk makes you cool or something? You certainly do it a lot.

I have no comment, but I will like to add how can you suck at something so easy? Human anatomy is just remebering facts, which is simple. Physiology is abit harder, but still easy.

You've never taken university-level anatomy, and I don't think you understand how detailed and difficult a subject it is. Memorizing all the muscles, bones, processes of bones, joints, ligaments and tendons, and a ton of information about the various related functions, cellular structure, etc. is not as easy as you might imagine.

But wait, then there's the small issue of the anatomy portion of the course, which is a highly technical section that requires copious, detailed note-taking and intensive studying/memorization. If you don't study constantly (which I didn't, becuase I was a dumb kid right out of high school) then you don't do well.

(To be fair, I got an A in organic chemistry the next year, which is also a demanding subject with a lot of memorization, so I think part of the problem was I was still working with a high school mentality in college.)

I don't need to go into any more detail, because both you and I know you're full of crap.

But I'm sure you would've had no problem with it. I mean, seeing as how well you remembered how to work with improper fractions and all.

I mean, it's so easy, right? Hell, why aren't you a doctor? You know that doctors make a lot more money than mathematicians, right? If it's so easy, you should be able to just breeze by and still do your math on the side.

Man, this is stupid. I'm wasting my time talking to you. Well, I will do something worth while before I end up like you, you know lazy. Bye

Bye, kid!

 

[Mashuna]

I have no comment, but I will like to add how can you suck at something so easy? Human anatomy is just remebering facts, which is simple. Physiology is abit harder, but still easy.

You're right, those are all easy. You should have a go at learning something tricky.

Like spelling.

Or have a go at those questions Ethel posed for you earlier in the thread.