Quakers Query

[EHLO]

Hi all,

I know very little about the Quaker religion (apart from some association with furniture and breakfast cereal) but it was being discussed on the radio this morning in regard to a gay marriage that had just occurred. The Quakers were quite comfortable with this (gay marriage in Australia is not yet legally recognised), and had seemingly very liberal views on human rights in general.

This story came directly after a discussion about Jerry Falwell, so the contrast with fundamentalist christianity was quite stark.

So, as far as religions go, are the Quakers as liberal and friendly as they came across?

(if interested, the audio/transcript for the half hour program is available here)

 

[ChristineR]

There are several denominations that call themselves Friends (the technical term for Quaker) and some are quite conservative, but the largest group is extremely liberal and tolerant and known for opposing all wars, opposing slavery, working for human rights, and voluntary poverty (or it's less extreme cousin "simplicity"). Quakers are exempt from the draft and instead were sent to the Peace Corps during the Vietnam war, a fact that inspired lots of conversions and lots of attempts by the DoD to prove said conversions to be false.

ETA: The furniture you are probably thinking of is Shaker, not Quaker, and that's quite a different religion.

 

[EHLO]

Thanks for that (and the Shaker correction - so many religions...)

So, in an attempt to fit them into my mental jigsaw puzzel of religions, it seems the Quakers are like a "hip" version of the Amish.

 

[DoubtingStephen]

During the Vietnam war I received draft counseling and assistance from a Quaker group and although I was not a Quaker myself, they helped me to prepare for a felony I committed at the Selective Service fresh meat intake center in Philadelphia on August 23, 1968. Although I found myself completely in agreement with Quaker philosophy I did not convert, and acted on the basis of my own beliefs.

Years later I attended Quaker meeting and found them the most accepting and gentle religious organization I've ever known.

The Quakers are not at all like the Amish. The Amish are extremely dogmatic and rigid in their theology, while it is possible to be an agnostic and still be a Quaker in good standing.

Amish will expel their own members and shun them forever for horrific crimes like being gay, while Quakers speak out in defense of gay people.

The Amish tend to minimize their contact with outsiders, while the Quakers try to help strangers.

I've known Quakers in good standing within their meeting who were openly gay communists and skeptical about the existence of any Imaginary Bearded Sky Daddy.

The core belief of Quakers seems to be that each person is best advised to follow the "leading of the spirit" which seems to be analogous to the conscience or the natural morality of social animals. Corollary to this is their conviction that the leading of the spirit is unlikely to cause a person to choose violence as a means of settling differences.

Based on my experience, the Quakers are one of the very few religious organizations not worthy of contempt and ridicule.

Unlike some other religions, the Quakers do not have any extremely wealthy central leaders that wear gold embroidered dresses and campaign against the rights of women and gay people.

 

[brodski]

Thanks for that (and the Shaker correction - so many religions...)

So, in an attempt to fit them into my mental jigsaw puzzel of religions, it seems the Quakers are like a "hip" version of the Amish.

I have known a few members of the "religious Society of friends" in the UK, and I can see little connection with the Amish (otehr than the Pennsylvania connection in the USA), although that said, i know little of the beliefs of the Amish other than their anti-modernist stance. A stance which the RSOF does not take at all (as far as I know).

The most interesting thing about the RSOF is that they have little dogma, each Friend is encouraged to find their own interpretation of Christianity and come to their own conclusions about God. This leads to a religion which is generally much more tolerant than many other sects, even if individual friends hold themselves to very strict standards.

You are unlikely to get preached at by a Quaker, but they will usually be very happy to discuss their faith with you, and many tend to actually be interested in hearing the opinions of those that don't share their faith- something which is discouraged in some other Christian sects.

Wikipedia has a very good article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Society_of_Friends#Beliefs_and_practices_of_Friends

 

[jhuntington]

I went to a Quaker boarding school, which turned my life around. If I were to be a believer, I would be a Quaker. They lead by example. The meetings vary by meeting, but they are pretty cool and I always just found them a nice way to clear my head. I hated going at the time, but once I graduated, I missed them.

My Mom dying (at 63 of cancer) pretty much finished off any belief I had left, but I did actually give it one last shot by going to the meetings here in NYC. Nice people, but very liberal and the politics got to be a bit much, along with that whole, well God thing

 

[EHLO]

OK, I'll scrap the Amish connection (which probably came to mind with the anti-violence stance and my recollection of the movie "Witness").

From the Wiki article it seems their pragmatic attitude toward the bible and theology in general is enough to warrant some respect.

As an atheist who doesn't believe the human race will ever shake off its addiction to religion it's nice to know that there are some religions I could live with.

 

[ponderingturtle]

OK, I'll scrap the Amish connection (which probably came to mind with the anti-violence stance and my recollection of the movie "Witness").

Well they are both noted for pacifism, and hold it in high regard, but other than that I don't think they have much in common.

Oddly at my parents tonight there is a welcoming dinner for a new gay couple to their meeting house.

Also when talking to my mother the largest group of quakers actualy might not be that liberal, as according to her it is in africa and has split off of the american quakers by quite a bit.

Also I understand that branches that say Nixon belonged to do actualy have something more like a service instead of a silent meeting.

 

[triadboy]

...they helped me to prepare for a felony I committed at the Selective Service fresh meat intake center in Philadelphia on August 23, 1968.

I apologize, but this caught me as funny. Is this real ...or is it a line from a Kurt Vonnegut novel? I hope it all worked out good for you.

 

[Rufo]

I remember doing one of those tests to see which religion you shared your beliefs with (if I recall correctly it was linked to from this very forum) and getting 100 % with the Liberal Quakers. I don't think I can belong to any religious organization, but this gave me the impression that they must be good fellows.

 

[DoubtingStephen]

I apologize, but this caught me as funny. Is this real ...or is it a line from a Kurt Vonnegut novel? I hope it all worked out good for you.

I certainly did refuse induction into the US Army on August 23rd 1968, and before leaving the induction center I signed a full confession in which I offered to come back as often as the government wished in order to refuse induction again.

Two years and 8 days later, on August 31st 1970 I was arrested by 2 US Marshals in the store manager's office of the Sears, Roebuck & Co store where I was the ace hippie pacifist TV repairman. I was charged with failure to perform a duty under the Selective Service Act of 1967 as Amended.

On January 4th 1971 the US government dropped the charges just at the very moment my trial was beginning. I had expected a 3.5 year prison term, but my attorney had found a procedural error the gummint had made in my case.

I later performed alternative service as a conscientious objector by designing and conducting a course in TV and small appliance repair at Goodwill Industries.

14 months into my assignment I received a letter advising me that I was released from my alternative service as a result of a US Supreme Court decision.

I still feel a deep sense of gratitude to the American Friends Service Committee, a Quaker group, for the help they provided me.

As others in this thread have indicated, if it were not for the embarrassing theism that is a general convention among them, the Quakers might be a nearly ideal religion.

 

[Beleth]

I certainly did refuse induction into the US Army on August 23rd 1968, and before leaving the induction center I signed a full confession in which I offered to come back as often as the government wished in order to refuse induction again.

Two years and 8 days later, on August 31st 1970 I was arrested by 2 US Marshals in the store manager's office of the Sears, Roebuck & Co store where I was the ace hippie pacifist TV repairman. I was charged with failure to perform a duty under the Selective Service Act of 1967 as Amended.

On January 4th 1971 the US government dropped the charges just at the very moment my trial was beginning. I had expected a 3.5 year prison term, but my attorney had found a procedural error the gummint had made in my case.

I later performed alternative service as a conscientious objector by designing and conducting a course in TV and small appliance repair at Goodwill Industries.

14 months into my assignment I received a letter advising me that I was released from my alternative service as a result of a US Supreme Court decision.

I still feel a deep sense of gratitude to the American Friends Service Committee, a Quaker group, for the help they provided me.

As others in this thread have indicated, if it were not for the embarrassing theism that is a general convention among them, the Quakers might be a nearly ideal religion.

I think you are my new hero. Seriously.

 

[EHLO]

My life seems strangely un-interesting.

 

[triadboy]

My life seems strangely un-interesting.

C'mon EHLO! You're Australian....as far as I know you live with a Kangaroo and eat BBQ shrimp all day. That's damn interesting!

 

[EHLO]

Paul Hogan and Steve Irwin have a lot to answer for.

 

[Tumblehome]

So, as far as religions go, are the Quakers as liberal and friendly as they came across?

I was rather touched immediately after the Quaker school shootings when I heard that the Quakers were offering solace and help to the shooter's family. That's some kind of humanity.

 

[Kopji]

As I recall, forum member Nova Land is a Quaker. (Or maybe it's just I think so because of his familiarity with being arrested)

Quakers are hard to neatly categorize, but they are capable of very poignant and elegant writing. I have some Quaker books on the shelf that I've enjoyed:

'A Quaker Book of Wisdom' by Robert Smith

'Without Apology' by Chuck Fager

and 'Listening to the light' by Jim Pym
(Pym is a Buddhist-Quaker.)

Quakerism has a link to commerce and trade from way back, and Quakers were noted for their honesty in business. The concept of a 'fixed price' (the 'fair' price) pretty much started with Quakers.

 

[kittynh]

Nova Land, who posts here, is a practicing Quaker. I do not know of a more gentle and honest person that lives the simple life.

And I mean the simple life.

He finds great happiness in people, books and ideas. Oh and cats.

But things...are just things.

I learn a lot from him.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I was rather touched immediately after the Quaker school shootings when I heard that the Quakers were offering solace and help to the shooter's family. That's some kind of humanity.

That was the Amish.

 

[Tumblehome]

That was the Amish.

Oops.

I wasn't sure before I posted, so I googled "quaker school shootings" (my first mistake). There were hardly any results for that specific incident (that should have been a clue), but there was one, which I took as gospel. My second mistake.

I guess I was rather touched by the Amish, then.