Pyramids - Egypt/Yucatan Connection?

[Ceinwyn]

Joshua Korosi:

I have read your synopses of Egyptian and Meso-American history and mythology and I think you have a rare talent.

I would love to read any book you might write about any of these and other topics. Please get an agent and get to writing.

Also, keep posting. As if you won't.

edit to say: Sorry, I was unaware this thread was so old...I found it from another site and got caught up in it...sorry again.

 

[Donks]

As a Mexican, I feel the need to state a few things. Teotihuacan is neither mayan nor aztec. Whatever culture built it had vanished by the time the Aztecs came around. The name itself is not it's original name, its the name given to it by the Aztecs (I think). Little is known of the men that built it.

Of course this means that it is also unknown if the pyramid of the Sun is dedicated to Quetzalcoatl.

There is a Feathered Serpent Pyramid in Teotihuacan, though.

Edit: Another thing. Teotihuacan is not in Mexico City. Tenochtitlan (capital city of the Aztecs) used to be where Mexico City now stands.

Source: http://archaeology.la.asu.edu/teo/

 

[Checkmite]

You're right....Mexico City occupies the site of Tenochtitlan, not Teotihuacan. My bad. However...although the foundations of Teotihuacan may have been laid before the Aztecs claimed the city and made it great (it's generally presumed that the Toltecs or the direct progenitors thereof started the city), the Pyramid of the Sun (which is central to this thread's discussion) was not there until the Aztecs built it c1300C.E.

Interestingly, the Aztecs admired those Toltecs so much that they claimed to be descended from them. I'm not completely sure whether that's just wishful thinking or not, though.

There's also stories around here about Knights Templar visiting Nova Scotia and burying treasures... I'll look into that sometimes.

This was off topic at the time Frostbite mentioned it, so I didn't respond to it. However, it just reminded me of this other thread I had a long time ago...about the Oak Island Money Pit. It is possible that the Knights Templar elements of the Oak Island legend were embellishments, added by Masons who decided to use the story as an allegory for Solomon's Temple and all that. While it's true that the Knights Templar disappeared after the continent-wide warrant for their arrest was issued by King Phillip's Pocket Pope(TM) - and their treasure disappeared with them (most disappointing to Phillip, since seizing the treasure was the whole point), it's likely that said treasure was either quietly leaked to its original owners over time, or it simply became the fortunes of several prominent richies following the Templars' disbandment. Again, as mentioned in the linked thread, you don't bury treasure you'll never be able to recover. And from the sound of things, the Oak Island "treasure" was "designed" to never be recovered.

 

[Donks]

You're right....Mexico City occupies the site of Tenochtitlan, not Teotihuacan. My bad. However...although the foundations of Teotihuacan may have been laid before the Aztecs claimed the city and made it great (it's generally presumed that the Toltecs or the direct progenitors thereof started the city), the Pyramid of the Sun (which is central to this thread's discussion) was not there until the Aztecs built it c1300C.E.

Hmmm, I don't think so. The Pyramid of the Sun seems to be one of the oldest "monumental" structures on the site, built sometime between 100BC and 100AD. The aztecs gave it its current name, that's all.

The Aztecs built their own pyramids, attribute those to them. Not the ones built 1300 or 1400 years before them.

Sources
(In Spanish) http://www.cnca.gob.mx/teo/plasol.htm
(In English) http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/MX/TheotihuacanPyramidSun.html
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/rmeyer/teo.htm
http://www.hillmanwonders.com/teotihuacan/teotihuacan.htm
http://arch.ced.berkeley.edu/courses/arch170/past/96fall/961029.html

 

[BillyJoe]

Perhaps Donks wants to write that book?

 

[Donks]

Archaeology is really not my area, unless we discover the egyptians were building carlike robots . It's just that I remembered some of this stuff from elementary school years ago, and a passing interest in history inherited form my parents.

 

[Checkmite]

Hmmm, I don't think so. The Pyramid of the Sun seems to be one of the oldest "monumental" structures on the site, built sometime between 100BC and 100AD. The aztecs gave it its current name, that's all.

*sigh* Once again I'm backhanded. The pyramid is an early structure, and it's uncertain when it was finished because it has been "worked on" constantly; it has been added to several times (including by the Aztecs) which gives it its current dimensions. However, I'm unwilling to concede that the pyramid was built as early as 100BC, because your sources are inconsistent with your conclusions. Only two of them address the age of the pyramid; one gives the date as 1AD, the other gives the date as 150AD. Can you find anything that would support either of these ages?

 

[Dorian Gray]

The pyramids in Egypt and Mexico are connected. They were both built by humans. That's about it.

The pyramid is the easiest shape to build a grand structure in. Small children, when playing with blocks, stack them in what? Pyramids.

Also, any religious significance whatsoever, paired with the ease of building a pyramid, simply suggests that humans all over the world tend to come up with similar ideas, given the same problems or sets of problems.

Why is it that no one ever suggests any connection or ancient advanced civilization origin or alien origin for crops, beer, smoking rolled up leaves, burial, fortification, clothing, spears, horses, language, music, sky gods, etc., etc., etc.? Many civilizations all over the world have all of these things in common.

By the way, Atlantis doesn't exist, and the inspiration for it was most likely Thera.

 

[Donks]

From the first source:

Fue construida en el siglo I de nuestra era sobre una cueva sagrada que...

translation:

It was built in the first century AD over a sacred cave that...

From the second source:

Built: ~100bc

From the third source:

The pyramid of the sun was the first major structure built around 150 AD over a sacred cave just to the east of the causeway.

From the fourth source:

Some archaeologists estimate that the Pyramid of the Sun is at least 2,000 years old.

From the fifth source:

Sun pyramid begun ca. 1AD and built almost as high as it is today.

And again from the fourth source:

The Teotihuacan moniker was coined by the invading Aztecs, relative newbies. They didn't take possession of the abandoned complex until a little before Cortez invaded Mexico.

It does however not say how many years "little" is. The mention in the fifth source regarding its probable height back in the second century AD would indicate that the aztecs didn't build much of it.
Trying to find more detailed info is just turning up free essays for students, and I'm not about to trust those

Another source: http://mexico.udg.mx/historia/precolombinas/azteca/teotihuacan.html
If you want I'll translate it, but for now I'll just sumarize that it says the sun pyramid was built (that includes 2 increments in size, bringing it up to its current height) during the first stage of the city ( TEOTIHUACAN I) which lasts from about 200BC to 1AD.

 

[Checkmite]

Well shoot, what can I say? I've been bested. Hats off to you, donk...perhaps I should stick with something I know more about, like Egypt...

Meanwhile, peer review may sting but it is absolutely necessary. I would much rather be corrected here than to have somebody repeat my erroneous dates and look foolish, and then blame me for it (rightfully so).

I suppose the one comfort I get out of this is that even at a date of 200 BCE, there's a huge gap between the building of the Egyptian pyramids and the building of the Mesoamerican pyramids. The minutae that have been mentioned - such as that the Sun Pyramid had different original dimensions and was built over a sacred cave - do manage to drive home the point that the builders had something much different in mind (as compared to Khufu's builders).

Trying to find more detailed info is just turning up free essays for students, and I'm not about to trust those

I'll second that...

Another source: http://mexico.udg.mx/historia/precolombinas/azteca/teotihuacan.html
If you want I'll translate it, but for now I'll just sumarize that it says the sun pyramid was built (that includes 2 increments in size, bringing it up to its current height) during the first stage of the city ( TEOTIHUACAN I) which lasts from about 200BC to 1AD.

I'm kicking myself now over this, but all this time there is one thing I've known for certain about Teotihuacan that for some reason just hadn't occured to me until just now - and that is that Teotihuacan is used as a relative dating method in Mexico. That is, when a new city is found, and emphatic mention is made of communication with Teotihuacan, that fact dates the city to between 200 BCE and 100 CE (after 100 CE, Teotihuacan was in decline and eventually became less important). I should've made a connection somewhere, but I didn't. Darn it!

 

[DrMatt]

Mmm, and after all, it is not so surprising that Mayan and Egyptian pyramids have a lot of features in common: Once you've decided to build a large stone monument that is supposed to stand forever, then without access to mortar and concrete, the pyramid shape is really the only feasible option.

Hans

The Egyptians used clay as mortar, and when wet, as a lubricant to help slide blocks into place, according to one source I've read...

 

[DrMatt]

The lines of Nascar were, of course, painted by the deity Penzoil.

 

[Frostbite]

Wow, I had forgotten about this thread. Brings back memories.

 

[Chanileslie]

Dancing. . .

Torture them? Not sure on that, but they sure didn't like Nefertiti's corpse. They f---ed that up pretty darn good.

smashed in the side of her face/head, and tore out her chest cavity. I'd say that is a harsh treatment for a ruler/god.

Actually, Nefertiti was a special case. During her and Akhenaten's rein, they attempted to change the religion of the people, and the priest were not very happy about this because they completely downplayed the role of priests who prior to Nefertiti and Akhenaten's rule were very powerful, even as powerful and sometimes more powerful than the pharohs themselves. Nefertiti and Akhenaten made themselves the head of the religion, changed the rituals.

Sadly for Nefertiti and Akhenaten, their religious changes did not stick after their deaths, and the priests were once again able to reassert themselves as the driving force of Eygpt's culture and religion. Statues and such of Nefertiti and her spouse have been destroyed and defaced, and the city they created abondoned and destroyed.

Also, there is some question if the mummy that you mentioned is even Nefertiti. If I recall, the one that is believed to be Nefertiti was too young of age.

 

[mummymonkey]

When I visited the pyramids the guide said they had been designed and built by young men, probably mostly teenagers. Makes it seem all the more impressive.