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Ed Punk Band Pussy Riot

Caustic Logic said:
Now the European examples CE has brought - how will these play out compared to the Stalinist dictator's draconian squashing of free specch in a RENTED(?) cathedral? [...]

Exactly comparable crime, prior date, would be the best test.
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Very unlikely that the German copycats will end up in prison, i'd guess they'll get a fine with the media frenzy counting in their favour .. luckily for them they didn't insult Merkel... ;)

btw, the fact that the anti-Putin refrain was edited into the video later was ignored by the usual suspects in addition to ignoring the Cologne copy event. :rolleyes:

An exactly comparable "crime" will be difficult to find - it's also a factor in this that at least two of the three were not unknown to law enforcement and, more importantly, to the public, being part of the collective Voina ("War"), known for less-than-tasteful performances for quite a while.

I'd add that this doesn't make it much better, but already condemned the sentence more than the usual suspects are reasonably allowed to ignore, so **** it. :D
 
dudalb said:
In the great tradition of all those in the 1930's who were telling people what a wonderful,humanitatrian leader Joe Stalin was...........

Some things never change.

Sadly, the chance Russia had to become something resembling a democratic state had gone down the tubes.It took a bit longer then it did in 1917, when the only democratically elected government in Russian history got overthrown within six months, but it got to the same spot.
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Well said. Any brute, racist or authoritarian thug who portrays him/herself as an adversary of thegreatsatan will find themselves deified by legions of lame-brained internet stooges.
 
trustbutverify said:
Well said. Any brute, racist or authoritarian thug who portrays him/herself as an adversary of thegreatsatan will find themselves deified by legions of lame-brained internet stooges.
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I didn't say he was a great leader, I just said he was no worse than Obama.

The trouble with Putin is
a. Russians vote for him
b. All opinion polls show and have consistently shown that Russians would vote for him again.

Perhaps he is a brute, perhaps he is a racist, perhaps he is authoritarina, but he has the support of the Russian electorate.
I don't go around telling Americans who to vote for either. Romney, Obama, take your pick.

However in terms of this particularly case there is no evidence that Putin has any involvement or interest in the case - there is no need for him to, Pussy Riot is completely marginalised in Russian society. Debate there is not over whether the group are offensive nuisances, but whether it is legitimate to send offensive nuisences to jail or not. Probably the more they went round demonstrating the more his opinion polls went up. They are the equivalent of the Diebold voting machine campaigners who claimed that it was all a Republican conspiracy to ensure a 1000 year Reich of Republican presidencies.
 
Her Grey Eminence said:
I didn't say he was a great leader, I just said he was no worse than Obama.

...

Perhaps he is a brute, perhaps he is a racist, perhaps he is authoritarina, but he has the support of the Russian electorate.
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It's possible he might be a racist authoritarian brute, but that's still better than Obama? Perhaps I should ask how Kim Jong-il compared, I heard he was very popular.

I think a number of Russians, and a few other people, might disagree with you about the topic of the debate and the accuracy of the equivalency you made.
 
uvar said:
It's possible he might be a racist authoritarian brute, but that's still better than Obama? Perhaps I should ask how Kim Jong-il compared, I heard he was very popular.

I think a number of Russians, and a few other people, might disagree with you about the topic of the debate and the accuracy of the equivalency you made.
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I am a sure a number of Russians would disagree with me, but a lot more agree with me. Thats what this thing called "democracy" is all about.

They have elections, the election results mirror the opinion polls.

I never knew anyone who voted for John Howard either, but he still won elections.
Politics in Russia is like politics in Australia, its crime, roads, schools, hospitals and jobs, not chicks in balaclavas shouting Holy S*** in the Cathedral of the Blessed Saviour
 
Having been in Russia many times and he is popular leader with most I talked to. There were also a lot who harked back to the Old Soviet era and were not happy that they were not really seen as that global superpower anymore.

I found Moscow to be a fascinating city. Up in Siberia not so much!
 
Kthulhut Fhtagn said:
Russian Orthodox Church: They offended the sensibilities of their supremely rich, privileged masters in the church! Let's use the legal system to oppress them!
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The people who were "offended" were average followers in the Russian orthodox church.

Jews: They deny the existence of the systematic, government-run genocide of our people, which they obviously approve of, as a smoke-screen for legitimizing the sociopolitical views that allowed it to happen in the first place! Let's use the scholarly study of history to prove them wrong!
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Sentencing people to prison for holocaust denial is "scholarly study"? Right. Then i guess throwing these women in jail is "tolerance and sensitivity training"...
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Then again if i remember the Russian double standard it goes like this: When some western country does something it's at worst something that's "bad" but when it happens in Russia it's a special kind of extreme evil. And Putin is behind it too! Not only does he have time to personally murder hundred thousands of innocent journalists but he also micro-manages the Russian justice system according to his whims.

Boo Russia!

Totally with you, "the Jews" just need to shut up already. I mean, come on, it's not like anyone else would complain about a third of their entire ethnic group getting wiped off the face of the earth.
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Yeah, compulsive whining is pathetic. Arresting people when they offend you is even more pathetic.
 
HansMustermann said:
You know, while Putin is bad and all that, I have to be the guy who asks the "wrong" question: what was the point of the stunt anyway?
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More importantly, how can anyone take folks that call themselves "Pussy Riot" seriously? How does one have a riot in one's own pussy? As someone who has one the P-things, I don't want a riot anywhere near there, she is perfectly happy with those who come in peace.
 
Alt+F4 said:
More importantly, how can anyone take folks that call themselves "Pussy Riot" seriously? How does one have a riot in one's own pussy?
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It's not a riot in a pussy, it's a bunch of pussies that are rioting.

But no, I don't know how they do that either. :boggled:
 
The closing statements of the three defendants in the Pussy Riot trial.

Yekaterina Samutsevich

In the closing statement, the defendant is expected to repent, express regret for her deeds, or enumerate attenuating circumstances. In my case, as in the case of my colleagues in the group, this is completely unnecessary. Instead, I want to voice some thoughts about what has happened to us.

That Christ the Savior Cathedral had become a significant symbol in the political strategy of the authorities was clear to many thinking people when Vladimir Putin’s former [KGB] colleague Kirill Gundyayev took over as leader of the Russian Orthodox Church. After this happened, Christ the Savior Cathedral began to be openly used as a flashy backdrop for the politics of the security forces, which are the main source of political power in Russia.
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I have to admit that had, say, a group of truthers pulled a similar stunt in the US and gotten the same sentence, I would react differently. Although I still would have forcefully opposed the ridiculous outcome of 2 years corrective labor, I wouldn't have really cared very much about the defendants. On an emotional level, I'm more invested in this case and angrier about the sentences because I like these women and identify with them. I'm pro- feminist, anti-authoritarian, anti-religious and pro-that goofy dance they did.
 
The latest issue of Foreign Affairs cites a survey in Russia in which 47% of respondents felt a sentence of 7 years was appropriate for the Pussy Rioters.
 
Captain.Sassy said:
The latest issue of Foreign Affairs cites a survey in Russia in which 47% of respondents felt a sentence of 7 years was appropriate for the Pussy Rioters.
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The only surveys I know about are those from Levada and after a quick research, I suspect they cite a number from a survey in April (not the last) answering a question "do you think 2 to 7 years in prison is adequate or excessive" with adequate. See here and click on the "Also see the Russians about the case Pussy Riot of July 31" link at the top for the older surveys where you'll find the 47% number. Further down there's a more detailed question from the July survey showing 16% support for more than two years.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
The only surveys I know about are those from Levada and after a quick research, I suspect they cite a number from a survey in April (not the last) answering a question "do you think 2 to 7 years in prison is adequate or excessive" with adequate. See here and click on the "Also see the Russians about the case Pussy Riot of July 31" link at the top for the older surveys where you'll find the 47% number. Further down there's a more detailed question from the July survey showing 16% support for more than two years.
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It's the Levada survey they cited.

The FA article itself is interesting. Talks about discontent with current administration spreading to countryside.
 
Captain.Sassy said:
It's the Levada survey they cited.

The FA article itself is interesting. Talks about discontent with current administration spreading to countryside.
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Ah, I see. Did they change the question from "2 to 7" to "7" or did you report it incompletely? Suspect the former, the likes of FA are always eager to portrait Russians as even more apathetic and sucking up to authority as they really are. ;)

Funny little op-ed in the NYT, the author seems to have had a horror vision of some serious pussy riot happening on Oprah during the hero worshipping tour after release, or something ... The Wrong Reasons to Back Pussy Riot

[...] Anyone who has bothered to see them beyond their relevance as anti-Kremlin proxies will know that these young people are as contemptuous of capitalism as they are of Putinism. They are targeting not just Russian authoritarianism, but, in Tolokonnikova’s words, the entire “corporate state system.” And that applies to the West as much as to Russia itself. It includes many of the fawning foreign media conglomerates covering the trial, like Murdoch’s News Corp., and even such darlings of the anti-Putin “liberal opposition” establishment as the businessman and anti-corruption campaigner Aleksei Navalny.

Pussy Riot’s fans in the West need to understand that their heroes’ dissent will not stop at Putin; neither will it stop if and when Russia becomes a “normal” liberal democracy. Because what Pussy Riot wants is something that is equally terrifying, provocative and threatening to the established order in both Russia and the West (and has been from time immemorial): freedom from patriarchy, capitalism, religion, conventional morality, inequality and the entire corporate state system. We should only support these brave women if we, too, are brave enough to go all the way.
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:D
 
Childlike Empress said:
Ah, I see. Did they change the question from "2 to 7" to "7" or did you report it incompletely? Suspect the former, the likes of FA are always eager to portrait Russians as even more apathetic and sucking up to authority as they really are. ;)
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The article just said 7 IIRC. I'll go check...

okay exact quote is "47 percent agreed a seven-year sentence is appropriate." Thanks for the follow up on this.

Funny little op-ed in the NYT, the author seems to have had a horror vision of some serious pussy riot happening on Oprah during the hero worshipping tour after release, or something ... The Wrong Reasons to Back Pussy Riot
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haha

just checked the 2008 protest art. pretty artistic.

apparently they burned a cop car too.
 
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