Psychics - Aussie skeptic says it like it is

[zooterkin]

Then while you are spouting your anti occult propaganda, politas, it probably good to add that a couple of facts.

These being, that in that in those four hundred years of "Renaissance" we in the West have so lost the meaning of existence that we have to medicate, on a massive scale, against the depression that has followed.

We also spend more on weapons than any other projects, except probably space exploration. And we do that because we believe the place is inevitably buggered and on the long term it is best to get the ***** out.

We cant even drink the water

It is time for a new Renaissance, politas.

What does any of this have to do with whether the "occult'" actually exists?

 

[The Fool]

John Edward is a simple character, commonly available. He is a simple con artist. In order to survive he needs two things. Victims and supporters.

I can understand his victims, they are often vulnerable people. What I can't understand are his apologists. To me, they are no different from him.

 

[buzz lightyear]

What does any of this have to do with whether the "occult'" actually exists?

Its a little like a mathematic equation zooterkin.

When you look a formula, it is the piece that is missing that is the answer to the question.

If you look at history, it is possible to see that as man moves away from "occult" practises his lifestyle causes degradation in his social structure and his environment.

The example that expresses this most vividly is the Australian aborigines.

Their lifestyle was based heavily on what could be called the most perfect example of the "occult".
This lifestyle allowed them to successfully survive in the most hostile of environments. It kept their social structure together and caused minimal impact on the land.

Since the comming of the western culture their social structure has dissolved and the lands destroyed.

The missing part of the equation is their knowledge of the occult. They now either don't care or have been brainwashed into the new christian religion.
So much has been lost.

 

[politas]

If you look at history, it is possible to see that as man moves away from "occult" practises his lifestyle causes degradation in his social structure and his environment.

You really have no clue.

The example that expresses this most vividly is the Australian aborigines.

Their lifestyle was based heavily on what could be called the most perfect example of the "occult".

Bwahahahaha!

This lifestyle allowed them to successfully survive in the most hostile of environments. It kept their social structure together and caused minimal impact on the land.

I wouldn't call Australia "the most hostile of environments", and the aboriginal way of life was extremely wasteful. Their society could never support the number of people living in Australia today, and it is a way of life that is harsh and unforgiving, where people die young frequently and have few choices in life.

Since the comming of the western culture their social structure has dissolved and the lands destroyed.

Their culture is not compatible with western culture, and western culture is stronger. Of course their social structure has dissolved. The incompatibility with a dominant culture quite adequately explains the problems facing aboriginal people trying to maintain traditional culture today. There is no need to disparage their retention of their own beliefs.

 

[buzz lightyear]

I wouldn't call Australia "the most hostile of environments", and the aboriginal way of life was extremely wasteful. Their society could never support the number of people living in Australia today, and it is a way of life that is harsh and unforgiving, where people die young frequently and have few choices in life.

You have a long road ahead of you, as an Australian, if you want to know this land, politas.

And if one day you find yourself sitting in the red dust at Uluru with tears streaming down your cheeks you will begin to understand.

Your journey will have just begun.

 

[lionking]

You are well off topic here buzz, so I will continue with this de-rail by saying that I have seen quite a few patronising posts in this forum, but this is right up there with the best.

You know the land do you? Through occult means?

Give me strength.

I have not put anyone on ignore before, but you may well get the honour of being the first.

 

[Old Bob]

I recall Fitzsimons sucking up to Howard on his gun confiscation, that opened the media door for the meathead. I don't laugh at anything I don't understand or comprehend and as someone said earlier the occult was the first herbs and medicine treatment and yes we have come a long way, look at the success rate on cancer. Have kemo and die. What is classed as the occult? Reading tea leaves, dowsing, tarot cards (harmless) Did fiss say what section he was against or was he just big mouthing.

 

[lionking]

Wow buzz, you now have Old Bob on your side. Time for the rest of us to concede.

 

[zooterkin]

I recall Fitzsimons sucking up to Howard on his gun confiscation, that opened the media door for the meathead. I don't laugh at anything I don't understand or comprehend

It must be awful to go so long between moments of amusement.

and as someone said earlier the occult was the first herbs and medicine treatment and yes we have come a long way, look at the success rate on cancer.

Yes, indeed, let's. Exactly what was the success rate of the occult against cancer? Yet now, due to the advances of medicine, we can for example actually prevent some people from suffering particular forms of cancer.

Have kemo and die.

Have chemo and have a chance to live longer; I don't think modern medicine yet offers the hope of eternal life. What exactly does the occult offer?

What is classed as the occult? Reading tea leaves, dowsing, tarot cards (harmless) Did fiss say what section he was against or was he just big mouthing.

It was Buzz Lightyear who brought in the more general topic of the 'occult', accusing Fitzsimons of being stupid for dismissing it. Fitzsimons was specifically talking about psychics.

 

[politas]

You have a long road ahead of you, as an Australian, if you want to know this land, politas.

And if one day you find yourself sitting in the red dust at Uluru with tears streaming down your cheeks you will begin to understand.

Your journey will have just begun.

Not all of Australia is like the Western desert areas, and they are far, far more hospitable than Antartica or even the Sahara. Your statement continues to be an absurd one.

Like today, the population distribution of the indigenous peoples was mainly clustered down the East and southern coasts of Australia.

I think it is you that has a lot to learn if you want to understand Australian history and world geography.

 

[Old Bob]

Dream time is as near as you can get to the occult and Buzz is right about harsh places. I've been where you need 4 litres of water to walk 1 K. The occult ways kept the ab---natives alive. On really cold desert nights whites would die but the native Australian can slow blood flow to arms and legs, keeping body core at a survival temp. That only applies to the real full bloods. I'm here to keep Lionking informed, Giday.

 

[AndyD]

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding every thing I cannot explain as fraud" by C. G. Jung.

"C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg." by Bjarne Stroustrup

"Women might be able to fake orgasms. But men can fake a whole relationship." by Sharon Stone

"I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it." by Groucho Marx

Now that we've got some random quotes out of the way, what has any of that got to do with debunking so-called psychics? Okay, maybe the Groucho Marx one is applicable to watching psychics at work.

What has Edward (or any other stage psychic) done that can't be explained (or hasn't been explained)? What exactly did Fitzsimons say that you disagree with? Anything?

Sorry to keep dragging this back on topic. Actually, not really.

 

[Mashuna]

And if one day you find yourself sitting in the red dust at Uluru with tears streaming down your cheeks you will begin to understand.

Always peel onions under running water. This avoids the problem you describe.

 

[buzz lightyear]

what has Edward (or any other stage psychic) done that can't be explained (or hasn't been explained)? What exactly did Fitzsimons say that you disagree with? Anything?

Sorry to keep dragging this back on topic. Actually, not really.

We have waffled a fair way of topic haven't we AndyD, and either the posters here don't reach for the report button or the Mods have changed their attitude.
Either way, beside Mashuna's dribble, it has been a good thread. Probably because of the number of Aussies involved.

So on this concilitary note I will agree that, from what I have seen, most stage psychics are just performers. I too want proof before I "believe".

And as I said, it was more Fitzsimons attitude that I found obnoxious than what he had to say.
It is his same "jam it down their throats" attitude that also gives rise for my intense dislike of James Randi.

 

[zooterkin]

So on this concilitary note I will agree that, from what I have seen, most stage psychics are just performers. I too want proof before I "believe".

Only 'most'? Who are the genuine ones, then?

And as I said, it was more Fitzsimons attitude that I found obnoxious than what he had to say.
It is his same "jam it down their throats" attitude that also gives rise for my intense dislike of James Randi.

You don't like people being told the truth? I don't see Randi being any more aggressive than some of the performers claiming psychic and other abilities, and he is not giving false hope and preying on credulity.

 

[Brian-M]

Dream time is as near as you can get to the occult and Buzz is right about harsh places. I've been where you need 4 litres of water to walk 1 K. The occult ways kept the ab---natives alive. On really cold desert nights whites would die but the native Australian can slow blood flow to arms and legs, keeping body core at a survival temp. That only applies to the real full bloods. I'm here to keep Lionking informed, Giday.

It's OK to say "Aborigines" Old Bob. It's calling them "Abbos" that people in the dowsing thread objected to.

What makes you believe that it's the occult keeping them alive? If what you say about slowing the blood flow to the arms and legs on cold nights is true (and I have my doubts), and only the "real full bloods" can do it, then that sounds like the result of genetic variation to me. A product of evolution, not the occult.

 

[TjW]

Dream time is as near as you can get to the occult and Buzz is right about harsh places. I've been where you need 4 litres of water to walk 1 K. The occult ways kept the ab---natives alive. On really cold desert nights whites would die but the native Australian can slow blood flow to arms and legs, keeping body core at a survival temp. That only applies to the real full bloods. I'm here to keep Lionking informed, Giday.

It's OK to say "Aborigines" Old Bob. It's calling them "Abbos" that people in the dowsing thread objected to.

What makes you believe that it's the occult keeping them alive? If what you say about slowing the blood flow to the arms and legs on cold nights is true (and I have my doubts), and only the "real full bloods" can do it, then that sounds like the result of genetic variation to me. A product of evolution, not the occult.

Personally, I'd think I'd be warmer using a product of science, such as a sleeping bag.

 

[Old Bob]

The blood flow control to me is beyond normal and any thing outside "normal" gets called woo or impossible. Doesn't that apply to six sense abilities and get renamed the occult.? After all what is the occult?, isn't it doing things out side the square. Water witching and burnt at the stake comes to mind with Fizz screaming "Burn the crazy" with ch. 7 filming. (what a sick bunch)

 

[Brian-M]

The blood flow control to me is beyond normal and any thing outside "normal" gets called woo or impossible. Doesn't that apply to six sense abilities and get renamed the occult.? After all what is the occult?, isn't it doing things out side the square. Water witching and burnt at the stake comes to mind with Fizz screaming "Burn the crazy" with ch. 7 filming. (what a sick bunch)

No. The occult deals with things outside the "natural" laws of physics. (That's why it's called the "super-natural".)

If anything has a scientifically explainable basis, it is not "occult" or "super-natural".

 

[buzz lightyear]

You know the land do you? Through occult means?

Give me strength.

Yes lionking, I do know the land through "occult" means.

The ability to pick up the most subtle traces of human presence is common to most people.
Have you ever walked into your home and thought "someone has been here" even though there is no physical evidence?
I does happen.

So imagine the amount of lingering "presence" that a people leave after 50,000 years.

The most beautiful for me was a little pool of water in the Olga Gorge at Kata Juta. Curiosity drew me too it, but as I sat beside it I could feel the men painting themselves. On further inspection I could see the polished areas of rock where they had ground the ocher. The colours were still faintly visible.
It was not something that I had planned or was looking for, it just happened.

It is every where in this land lionking.