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Protests Erupt in Cuba

SuburbanTurkey said:
Cuban expats and American Cold Warriors seem to think every protest in Cuba is an opportunity for counter revolution.
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It is amazing that people who would not for one moment consider that the rioters of Jan. 6 represent the American people insist that the Cubans demonstrating on Sunday, July 11, are the true Cubans unlike the thousands of Cubans rallying in support of Cuba in the days that followed.

It makes me wonder how it will be interpreted when the Cuban vaccination campaign overtakes the USA.
Doses per 100 pop
USA: 101.14 (July 19)
Cuba: 72.62 (July 17)
Vaccinated
USA: 55.71% (July 19)
Cuba: 29.65% (July 17)
Fully vaccinated
USA: 48.28% (July 19)
Cuba: 18.62% (July 17)

Will it be an inspiration to the USA, something to catch up with, like the Sputniks in the late 1950s? Or will it convince unvaccinated Republicans that vaccines are undiluted communism?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Three back to back posts and no response to a plainly stated question. Impressive.
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I think he figured out quicker than I did that when you said "let's talk seriously" you meant "let's consider an arbitrary fictional narrative of my own invention".

But okay, sure. Let us talk seriously. You asked a question about whether these protests were the start of something much bigger, or if they would come and go without any significant changes to the regime.

Personally, I think they'll come and go without any major changes - especially if the US government declines to exploit or support them. But I admit I don't have a lot of info and am pretty much just guessing. I couldn't give you a good reason for why I think this.

What's your take? Do you think these protests will escalate to regime change? Why or why not?
 
theprestige said:
I think he figured out quicker than I did that when you said "let's talk seriously" you meant "let's consider an arbitrary fictional narrative of my own invention".

But okay, sure. Let us talk seriously. You asked a question about whether these protests were the start of something much bigger, or if they would come and go without any significant changes to the regime.

Personally, I think they'll come and go without any major changes - especially if the US government declines to exploit or support them. But I admit I don't have a lot of info and am pretty much just guessing. I couldn't give you a good reason for why I think this.

What's your take? Do you think these protests will escalate to regime change? Why or why not?
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I tend to agree with you. I mostly think these will pass without significant change.

Some of the issues seem more long-term concerns with the Cuban economic system, but all available reporting seem to point out that covid is making things especially difficult. Cuba has developed a vaccine and I would expect it's only a matter of time before it's available in large numbers to help alleviate that stressor. Other articles also mentioned that the global drop in the tourism industry has really put the squeeze on the Cuban economy. I have to assume that too is a shorter term problem.

It's really hard as an American media consumer to figure out what it popular sentiment is really like in Cuba. You don't have to be a tankie to know that US based coverage of Cuban politics is a bit... tilted. This is the same media that incredulously spread the hoax OAS report to justify right wingers to try to steal an election in Bolivia. I have no confidence that English language sources are getting the full story.

I just like to keep some perspective. All of modern history in South America is pretty rough. Lots of strongmen and authoritarian regimes to go around, left and right wing both well represented. An awful lot of authoritarian regimes at work in this historically screwed-over part of the world, but it seems that the ones with a left-wing bent get special attention when it comes to moral condemnation.

I know I engage in a lot of snark here, but I honestly wonder what the people frothing in the mouth about the evils of the Cuban revolution see as a legitimate alternative, both then and now. Seems to me that, as is often the case in South America, there were no good options. You've got the CIA, United Fruit, and recently exiled Batista staring hungrily at the island and sharpening their knives at the mere mention of vaguely left reform. Not exactly an environment that breeds a healthy respect of individual liberty. An authoritarian government was inevitable, the question was weather it was going to be a right wing junta a la Guatemala or Brazil, or one that does land reform and literacy programs.
 
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Sideroxylon said:
Except for the obvious ones Murrica gives a pass to.
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Same as every other American defends. There's no difference between a Trump defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia, and a Biden defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia. But now we're wandering pretty far off the topic. How about we stick to the Cuban protests, and discussion of whether the Cuban regime is defensible or not.

What's your opinion? Is the Cuban regime worth defending? I think not, but that's mostly knee-jerk. If you've got some good arguments in favor of the regime, I'd be interested in hearing them. Especially if your arguments inform our opinions about the legitimacy of the protests.
 
dann said:
It is amazing that people who would not for one moment consider that the rioters of Jan. 6 represent the American people insist that the Cubans demonstrating on Sunday, July 11, are the true Cubans unlike the thousands of Cubans rallying in support of Cuba in the days that followed.

It makes me wonder how it will be interpreted when the Cuban vaccination campaign overtakes the USA.
Doses per 100 pop
USA: 101.14 (July 19)
Cuba: 72.62 (July 17)
Vaccinated
USA: 55.71% (July 19)
Cuba: 29.65% (July 17)
Fully vaccinated
USA: 48.28% (July 19)
Cuba: 18.62% (July 17)

Will it be an inspiration to the USA, something to catch up with, like the Sputniks in the late 1950s? Or will it convince unvaccinated Republicans that vaccines are undiluted communism?
Click to expand...

A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
 
theprestige said:
Same as every other American defends. There's no difference between a Trump defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia, and a Biden defender also "defending" Saudi Arabia. But now we're wandering pretty far off the topic. How about we stick to the Cuban protests, and discussion of whether the Cuban regime is defensible or not.

What's your opinion? Is the Cuban regime worth defending? I think not, but that's mostly knee-jerk. If you've got some good arguments in favor of the regime, I'd be interested in hearing them. Especially if your arguments inform our opinions about the legitimacy of the protests.
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I think the embargo and USAsian knee-jerk freedomz response, salted by Miami politics is a theatre of absurdity. The occupation of Guantanamo Bay and its prison is another gaping hole in the nation’s flimsy moral facade.
 
dann said:
It is amazing that people who would not for one moment consider that the rioters of Jan. 6 represent the American people insist that the Cubans demonstrating on Sunday, July 11, are the true Cubans unlike the thousands of Cubans rallying in support of Cuba in the days that followed.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the Cuban protestors weren't "everyday Cubans."
 
theprestige said:
A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
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Those better numbers are very precise, being calculated to the hundredth of a percent, too.
 
Sideroxylon said:
I think the embargo and USAsian knee-jerk freedomz response, salted by Miami politics is a theatre of absurdity. The occupation of Guantanamo Bay and its prison is another gaping hole in the nation’s flimsy moral facade.
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Neat! Now tell me something I don't know. Like your opinion on the defensibility of the Cuban regime and the legitimacy of the recent protests.
 
theprestige said:
A small, centrally-governed island police state is probably always going to have better vaccination numbers than a transcontinental, federalized liberal democracy. On paper, if nowhere else.
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I would agree Cuba has far too many people locked up in prisons for anyone that cares about human liberty to be comfortable with.

Wikipedia lists them #6 in per capita prison rate, far too close to USA's #1 slot.

ETA: El Salvador ranks #2. What a difference having a successful US-backed counter revolution makes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
 
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timhau said:
Just like in Belarus and other police states, every visible public protest shows cracks in the system.

BTW, there's nothing counter-revolutionary in attacking a decades-old entrenched system. It's part of the BS left-wing nostalgia that still tries to pass of Cuba as laid-back Latino socialism with rum and rhumba.
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Remember how Chavez was going to lead Venezuela into the Marxist Promised Land?
Real problem is too many on the hard left just cannot admit that Marxism has failed miserably wherever tried;I am not talking about other forms of socialism.
 
Sideroxylon said:
I think the embargo and USAsian knee-jerk freedomz response, salted by Miami politics is a theatre of absurdity. The occupation of Guantanamo Bay and its prison is another gaping hole in the nation’s flimsy moral facade.
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You hate the US. We get it, comrade, we get it.
Still bitter over Bernie not winning?
I could talk about the flimsy moral facade of sombody who will defend ruthless authoratiran regimes provided they have a "socialist" ideology, ....
And nice attempt to deflect. Worthy of a Trumpster.
 
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I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.
 
dudalb said:
I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.
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And bravely leading the fight against the totalitarian police states that were about to take over large chunks of Europe and enslave them for the next fifty years.
 
dudalb said:
You hate the US. We get it, comrade, we get it.
Still bitter over Bernie not winning?
I could talk about the flimsy moral facade of sombody who will defend ruthless authoratiran regimes provided they have a "socialist" ideology, ....
And nice attempt to deflect. Worthy of a Trumpster.
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Multiple ad homs, as well as a strawman and a tu quoque in one sentence. Love your work.
 
dudalb said:
I got a feeling thatif they lived in the 1930's a number of people here would be singing the praises of Uncle Joe, who was herorically leading the Soviet People into the Workers Paradise.
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Your meta commentary is a highlight of the politics forums.
 
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