Prostitution with 16

[fungus]

Yes!

Prostitution yes, pimping no.

i.e. If all parties do it of their own free will then it's OK. Girls coerced into it ... not so much.

I live in a country where it's legal and I know from personal experience that some girls have fun doing it. No really.

Penn and Teller did a show on it which seemed spot on to me.

 

[JFrankA]

I have always wondered, would hiring a prostitute be legal if you give a friend $5 to film it?

I remember watching a documentary about porn in which a sheriff from Texas (I think - using my memory now, so that could be dangerous ) believes that acting in a porn and prostitution is the same thing, so porn should be illegal.

So if someone takes that line of thought, I would say that logically, the ultimate form of prostitution is the whole "abstinence until marriage" idea. I mean, is the idea that until one goes into a legal, binding, and (supposedly) life long agreement that takes some form of legal proceeding to dissolve before having sex with someone sounds like prostitution to me.

Further, in the past, this practice was done between two families for the benefit of those families without any consent of the children involved.

Just my observations for what it's worth.

 

[JFrankA]

Go look at the whole porn vs art thread, this got discussed to death there and is not relevant here.

.....please, no, not that thread....

 

[ponderingturtle]

It seems to me that collective bargaining would fall afoul of the third party law.

So if prostitutes band together to negotiate with insurance companies and banks they become pimps?

 

[Her Dark Star]

Although legalising prostitution tends to stir up a lot of emotion pretty much all of the actual studies I've seen on the matter say it's a good thing. I think someone mentioned Australia in the thread, it seems to work well there with brothels being legal but heavily regulated. A brothel there must provide healthcare and monthly checks, security, the building has to meet all kind of standards, every client has to produce ID and every worker has ID/immigration checks etc. The net result is that streetwalking is massively reduced, fewer opportunities for someone to be forced into it, a better environment for both workers and clients, saves the police a lot of time and takes the profits away from organised crime. Everyone seems far better off from it. A quick google will find you quite a lot of data on it and pretty much everything points to it being positive as long as it is well regulated. Personally I've never understood why it was illegal in the first place....
Minimum age for it? I'd probably go with 18, in the UK that's when you're legally an adult though the age of consent is sixteen.

 

[Damien Evans]

Although legalising prostitution tends to stir up a lot of emotion pretty much all of the actual studies I've seen on the matter say it's a good thing. I think someone mentioned Australia in the thread, it seems to work well there with brothels being legal but heavily regulated. A brothel there must provide healthcare and monthly checks, security, the building has to meet all kind of standards, every client has to produce ID and every worker has ID/immigration checks etc. The net result is that streetwalking is massively reduced, fewer opportunities for someone to be forced into it, a better environment for both workers and clients, saves the police a lot of time and takes the profits away from organised crime. Everyone seems far better off from it. A quick google will find you quite a lot of data on it and pretty much everything points to it being positive as long as it is well regulated. Personally I've never understood why it was illegal in the first place....
Minimum age for it? I'd probably go with 18, in the UK that's when you're legally an adult though the age of consent is sixteen.

The only problem with it being legal is that now the old jokes about St Kilda Road (an area of Melbourne previously roughly analogous to Kings Cross) no longer work, given the dive in the number of ladies of negotiable affection plying their trade there.

 

[slingblade]

No,it shouldn't be legal at all,what he nass is wrong with you people?

I thought we were supposed to be better than animals.

Should rape be legal? Why not? Gotta copulate right? We're just animals anyways.

I'm guessing that, unlike me, you don't actually know any of the working girls at the legal brothels in Nevada.

Nothing like rape goes on there. Comparing what they do to rape is highly disingenuous. For instance, when a client comes in, the ladies get to see him before he sees them. If they'd rather not be his date for the evening, they go back to their rooms. Their choice. ALWAYS their choice.

Rape is a crime of violence. Legal prostitution, the way it's done in Nevada, is nothing like rape.

 

[Ladewig]

In my country it is totally legal to work as a prostitute when you are 16 or older.

Wikipedia says that the Swiss legislature just raised the age to 18.

 

[TSR]

You do realize that legalizing prostitution would actually reduce rape rates?

.
I highly doubt this, since rape is about power and control, not sex.

Can you cite relevant studies?
.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I am concerned with the focus many have on having it legalised for brothels and with strict regulations. I mean, regulations, sure. But making it only legal in brothels is barely better than having it illegal. It is not like all the street-walkers, independents, escorts, hustlers, etc. can just join a brothel. Also, I think it is a tacit admission of the imbalance of power in such places to the worker.

 

[DC]

Wikipedia says that the Swiss legislature just raised the age to 18.

haven't heard about it, and didnt find anything on the news about it. There is big debate about it, and afaik, some Kantons (States) have raised it to 18 already.

 

[Rasmus]

.
I highly doubt this, since rape is about power and control, not sex.

Can you cite relevant studies?
.

I think the rationale behind the claim is that those who can't get any might end up forcing their way on some randomly chosen victim - where prostitution could provide a welcome outlet, thus preventing the rape.

Thinking about that I have to wonder, though: Is prostitution ever forbidden so efficiently that it is not available for anyone who wants it? I'd assume that no.

I then have to wonder who would rather permit the crime of rape than that of prostitution. Is there really anywhere with a higher punishment for the former than for the latter?

So, wouldn't someone committing rape under those circumstances not commit it anyway? There seems to be no rationale that would make anyone more likely to illegally rape someone than to illegaly buy the services of a prostitute, right?

 

[GrandMasterFox]

.
I highly doubt this, since rape is about power and control, not sex.

Can you cite relevant studies?
.

I guess I wasn't clear, I didn't mean it in the sense that people would have less desire to rape, but rather there would be less rapists on the streets and potential rapists will have a lower chance of success.

Currently, if a working girl is raped, she can't report it because she too will be arrested. If she was legal, that wouldn't be a problem and there is a greater likelyhood of the rapist going to jail and staying away from anyone else.

That, and the fact that she herself would be less likely to be raped in the first place if she works in a decent building with proper security rather than some backalley or the streets.

 

[TSR]

but rather there would be less rapists on the streets

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How do you figure? Would legalization suddenly make some of them disappear?
.

Currently, if a working girl is raped, she can't report it because she too will be arrested.

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Wrong. And I know this from the experience of a friend of mine (whom I have mentioned before is a sex worker.) The act of rape, by definition, is not consensual. As such, it places her beyond the legal definitions of any prostitution legislation I have read, since they all require "for consideration" (or words to that effect) and no such consideration was exchanged -- or do you think the rapist generally *pays* for it first?

So, I see that you are simply making assumptions, and cannot factually support your assertion.

And once again: rape is about power and control, not sex. The rapist is going to rape, regardless of the availability of other options, and there would still be the same number of them out there preying.
.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I highly doubt this, since rape is about power and control, not sex.

Why do people always say that when so much about sex is about power and control to start with. It is a cop out plain and simple.

 

[GrandMasterFox]

.
So, I see that you are simply making assumptions, and cannot factually support your assertion.
[/QUOTE]

*SIGH* No, I am not making assumptions, you are simply raising silly strawmen arguments.

Fact: Working girls*, in locations where the proffession is ilegal, are less likely to draw any attention to themselves when it comes to law enforcement because they could go to jail or take other forms of sanction including public emberassment.

As a result, prostitutes who are raped are less likely to report the rape.
As a result, it is less likely for the police to arrest the rapist in question.
As a result, it quite likely that the rapist will strike again.

* This is has nothing to do with the nature of the work of prostitues but rather the fact that they are working in an ilegal profession.

The exact same statement will hold for ilegal immigrants, gays in the military and so forth.

 

[TSR]

*SIGH* No, I am not making assumptions, you are simply raising silly strawmen arguments.

Fact: Working girls*, in locations where the proffession is ilegal, are less likely to draw any attention to themselves when it comes to law enforcement because they could go to jail or take other forms of sanction including public emberassment.

.
No, it's not a fact. It's your assumption. And we're not talking about just *any* attention -- move goalposts much? Unless you have studies specifically about rape in such situations?

Again: I have friends, associates and just folks I know, and I know for a fact that an escort where I live is going to go to the cops in a heartbeat if she's been raped. I've known several who have done so, and none were arrested for prostitution. And everyone, male and female, in our little national online community has encouraged them to do so, and supported them as appropriate while they do
.

< snip argument from unsupported assumption >

The exact same statement will hold for ilegal immigrants, gays in the military and so forth.

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Yes, illegals are less likely to know that they have rights, too.

But gays in the military? Once again, I'm going to call BS unless you can offer more than bald assertion to support this.

And I note you have apparently backed off from your claim about fewer rapists on the street, but the honest thing to do would be admit your error.
.

 

[TSR]

Why do people always say that when so much about sex is about power and control to start with. It is a cop out plain and simple.

.
You poor child, I am sorry this has been your experience.

At TSR's house, sex is about shared pleasure and mutual respect for boundaries, with open and honest communication driving it all
.

 

[ponderingturtle]

.
You poor child, I am sorry this has been your experience.

At TSR's house, sex is about shared pleasure and mutual respect for boundaries, with open and honest communication driving it all
.

So no handcuffs in your night stand I take it.

 

[Ladewig]

Thinking about that I have to wonder, though: Is prostitution ever forbidden so efficiently that it is not available for anyone who wants it? I'd assume that no.

When I read this question, I immediately thought of Saudi Arabia where prostitutes can be jailed, flogged, and even raped by the morality police. BUt a quick search shows that human trafficking occurs (from Africa and Southeast Asia) and prostitution is pretty available to those who want it.