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"[T]here is no documentary proof that any particular "Boston marriage" included sexual relations. In general, the amount of historical and social scientific knowledge of this phenomenon, and even of the currency of the term at the turn of the 20th century, is scant."


Travis didn't mention anything about "prior to the 20th century" in the post to which you are replying. That said...

According to Wikipedia, there were several societies that practiced same-sex unions, including Ancient Greece and Rome, certain regions of China, and at various times in ancient Europe.

It is believed that a same-sex union was a socially recognized institution at times in Ancient Greece and Rome,[2] some regions of China, such as Fujian province, and at certain times in ancient European history.[3] These gay unions continued until Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire. A law in the Theodosian Code (C. Th. 9.7.3) was issued in 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans, which prohibited same-sex marriage in ancient Rome and ordered that those who were so married were to be executed.​

So I guess it was Christianity that perverted the traditional meaning of marriage.

The Greek example is pederasty, wherein an adult male would use an adolescent boy for sex while in the military. This would be unacceptable today, and as explained in the article, was a relationship that would supplant traditional marriage.

Still, the Roman example is revealing. It's interesting to think of ancient cultures that were more socially progressive than ours, at least in some ways.

Why are the laws and mores prior to the 20th Century what defines "normal"?

They don't. However, the claim was that other cultures throughout history had regarded same-sex unions as marriage or socially acceptable. This was news to me, so I asked for proof.
 
I would like to take a moment to thank Robert Prey for almost single-handedly keeping this thread alive. Any lurkers who just might be on the fence on single-gender marriage will see that RP's arguments are so idiotic that they will uniformly fall on the correct side.

Thanks, Robert
 
How many people care? The world population is 7 Billion people Robert. We are in no danger. Chill out. BTW: marriage doesn't increase gay relationships so your argument is beyond absurd.
However, a marriage between 2 men is guaranteed to never result in any abortions, so we have to wonder why Robert is arguing against that.

Oh, wait...
 
Is there some sort of forum law of nature that says every discussion on gay rights has to devolve into a discussion about butt sex:covereyes? What is it with anti-gay activists and their sick fascination with this activity?

Because they must think about that filthy, filthy anal sex every moment of their day. They just must obsess over all that steamy anal sex at every opportunity.

To stop it, you see, because it is against God. :rolleyes:

And in all that alleged time, how many humans were created by a union of homosexuals?????

Let us suppose the answer is zero. So what? We still got to seven billion pretty darned quick.
 
And in all that alleged time...

Forgive me ya'll, somehow over looked this part of the post.

Prey, what is wrong with the 'alleged time'? Have a problem with it? If so got a better better time scale?
 
The Greek example is pederasty, wherein an adult male would use an adolescent boy for sex while in the military. This would be unacceptable today, and as explained in the article, was a relationship that would supplant traditional marriage.

There are many Greek examples in the article:

There were also same sex unions among peers among the Ancient Greeks which were not age-structured. Numerous examples of these are found in Ancient Greek writings. Aristotle praised a same sex couple (Philolaus and Dioclese) who lived their whole lives together and maintained a household together until their deaths when they were buried side by side.[18] Lucian describes a debate in which a proponent of same-sex relationships describes them as being more stable than heterosexual relationships and goes on to express the hope that he will be buried with his lover after they have passed their lives together.[19] Famous Greek couples in same sex relationships include Harmodius and Aristogiton, Pelopidas and Epaminondas and Alexander and Bogoas.​

-Bri
 
I wasn't aware you are the sole determiner of what reality consists of. When were you granted this exalted status? By whom? More importantly, why did none of the rest of us get the memo on your stupendous appointment to the position of arbiter of all that is to be judged reality?

Less flippantly, go read the various court decisions. The legal reasoning for the decisions is contained within them. Same-sex marriage has been legal in all of Canada for 6½ years now and the country hasn't collapsed. It hasn't descended into societal or moral chaos. No, everything is pretty much going along as it had before.

The best way to test objective reality is to take a jump from a ten story building. You might pretend it's just an illusion, but pretty soon the "Splat" will set you straight.
 
... All of whom were actually playing "Let's Pretend."

So, your version of Christianity is right and other people's version of Chritianity is wrong?

You never did respond to my point that gay marriage was contemporary with Jesus and, yet, he never spoke out against gays or gay marriage.
 
The best way to test objective reality is to take a jump from a ten story building. You might pretend it's just an illusion, but pretty soon the "Splat" will set you straight.
Marriage isn't an a priori objective fact. It's an abstract cultural construction. It means whatever we say it means.
 
The best way to test objective reality is to take a jump from a ten story building. You might pretend it's just an illusion, but pretty soon the "Splat" will set you straight.

Then the best way to test your claims is to allow homosexual marriage and see how it affects heterosexual marriage.

Hint: It has already been tested, and the answer is "not at all".

To put it in words you should understand: if you think you´ve jumped off a ten story building, and it´s been hours without any "Splat", maybe that building really did just exist in your imagination.
 
Well, pair bonding is likely built in to some degree, but not exclusivity.

We see ample evidence of that.

So, you could argue that Marriage is unnatural.
Great point. Agreed. I would go further. Humans, on average, apparently did not evolve to pair bond for life. Our Oxytocin and Vasopressin production is closer to that of animals who don't pair bond for life. So this idea of "until death do you part" is also unnatural.
 
So, your version of Christianity is right and other people's version of Chritianity is wrong?

You never did respond to my point that gay marriage was contemporary with Jesus and, yet, he never spoke out against gays or gay marriage.
There's no objective evidence that Jesus and Robert are communicating with each other at all...
 

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