Prophecy Timeline Challenge

Z said:
I think I just figured it out.

DJJ comes in here attempting to tempt us with lies and false prophecies. He advocates the notion that churches are evil, but sensuality is desirable...

(Not that I entirely disagree)

Yet he buys into the mythos (apparently) behind Christianity...
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One glaring oddity is his true skeptic/false skeptic rant. We are admonished from his pulpit that we must not just question authority, but out-right reject it. To believe "the government" and not seek out and invent conspiracy theories disqualifies one as a true skeptic. Yet, he demands we accept his authority and that of the Bible.

Am I to conclude that DJJ insists that only false skeptics believe in Jesus?

So, what have he learned? DJJ is a liar--we knew that. DJJ is a false prophet--we knew that, too. But now we know DJJ doesn't what us to believe him--how considerate. It all balances out, I guess.

He's a Satanist! It makes perfect sense! Lies, false prophecy, tempting people away from their church, obsession with sex...

Yep. Perfect sense.
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Don't forget that his sacred 432 plus its reverse is 666. And given the sorts of numeric errors DJJ often makes, 696 is a possibility, too. Just perverted....
 
jsfisher said:
I quite agree with you DR. I think the most current consensus is that Josephus may have actually referenced a man named Jesus, but that the text has been so thoroughly corrupted by translation and interpolation to have completely lost any historic value.

However, our debate opponent here lacks any capacity for subtlety or areas of gray. The flatness of my statement to DJJ was meant as a direct counter to his unqualified "read Josephus (for proof of the Christ)." I admit it contained opinion and hyperbole.
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Didn't Origen make reference to Josephus without making any reference to any sort of Jesus testimony? I could swear he called Josephus an unbeliever.
 
Foster Zygote said:
Didn't Origen make reference to Josephus without making any reference to any sort of Jesus testimony? I could swear he called Josephus an unbeliever.
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IIRC Josephus was both a non-believer and in the employ of the Roman government, wasn't he? Seems unlikely he'd promote something not in line with his own beliefs and not in line with the beliefs of his employer.
 
jsfisher said:
IIRC Josephus was both a non-believer and in the employ of the Roman government, wasn't he? Seems unlikely he'd promote something not in line with his own beliefs and not in line with the beliefs of his employer.
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Exactly Josephus was employed by the Romans as a historian. he was not paid by a Christian church, and therefore as the historian for his time and arena, he did an exacting job in describing palestine during jesus' time.

You wanted proof of Jesus, you can prove it yourself HERE and NOW, or you can read about it from JOSEPHUS.

But you most likely still won;t believe becayuse most of your hearts are hardened and your minds closed.

False skeptics don't want answers, they relish in their doubts as their faith in in DOUBT.
 
Davidjayjordan said:
You wanted proof of Jesus, you can prove it yourself HERE and NOW, or you can read about it from JOSEPHUS.
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Prove what? That a man named Jesus lived?

But you most likely still won;t believe becayuse most of your hearts are hardened and your minds closed.
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I don't believe for the same reason you don't believe in Zeus or Mithras or many other gods. There is no evidence of their divinity.

False skeptics don't want answers, they relish in their doubts as their faith in in DOUBT.
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Like you are looking for answers that Zeus is god. Please. You are an atheist like the rest of us except we just believe in one less god than you. You are not special.
 
Davidjayjordan said:
Exactly Josephus was employed by the Romans as a historian. he was not paid by a Christian church, and therefore as the historian for his time and arena, he did an exacting job in describing palestine during jesus' time.
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The whole point is that the reference to Jesus and his divinity was most likely added to Josephus' text many years later by a Christian scribe. If Josephus had written the disputed lines then Origen most likely would have mentioned them and he certainly would not have referred to Josephus as an unbeliever if he's said that Jesus was seen by his follower after his resurrection and that he was the true Christ. Prior to movable type all texts were copied by hand and errors and deliberate alterations were common. There are even cases where authors are known to have included curses in their texts for those who might deliberately alter the writer's intent. We know that Christian texts were altered many times. The last twelve verses of Mark, for instance, were added later.
 
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Foster Zygote said:
The whole point is that the reference to Jesus and his divinity was most likely added to Josephus' text many years later by a Christian scribe.
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That's one take on it.
If Josephus had written the disputed lines then Origen most likely would have mentioned them and he certainly would not have referred to Josephus as an unbeliever if he's said that Jesus was seen by his follower after his resurrection and that he was the true Christ. Prior to movable type all texts were copied by hand and errors and deliberate alterations were common. There are even cases where authors are known to have included curses in their texts for those who might deliberately alter the writer's intent. We know that Christian texts were altered many times. The last twelve verses of Mark, for instance, were added later.
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I think this thread begun by Malachi151, and some others like it, have some good commentary on the topic.

I think this diversion by DJJ to Josephus, without the kind of fleshing out made in that thread by some very well spoken posters, leads us to a Readers' Digest style treatment of that much discussed and remarked upon reference.

To js and RandFan: sorry not to reply, but thanks for your posts, and the points to ponder. :)

DR
 
Foster Zygote said:
Didn't Origen make reference to Josephus without making any reference to any sort of Jesus testimony? I could swear he called Josephus an unbeliever.
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Josephus from what I heard was not a believer, just a historian bought and paid for, to write down facts as most historians are told to do.

Jesus was a historical figure, it can not be denied even though false skeptics want to deny anything positive or the most positive person that ever lived.
 
Davidjayjordan said:
Josephus from what I heard was not a believer, just a historian bought and paid for, to write down facts as most historians are told to do.
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Not quite. IIRC, he was more of a foreign correspondent, providing appropriate news (and views) for his loyal readership.

Jesus was a historical figure, it can not be denied even though false skeptics want to deny anything positive or the most positive person that ever lived.
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Nope. Religion in general and Jesus in particular are too often crutches for the feeble minded. Faith systems limit skeptical thought, not promote it.

Davidjayjordan, it is not false skepticism to challenge the absolutely baseless and absurd spewage you generate. Besides, as the spewage claimant, it is your responsibility, not ours, to offer supporting evidence--evidence that is not itself more baseless and absurd spewage.

Any possibility you'll do that at some point?
 
By Therion: Chain of Minerva (Gothic Kabbalah)

Adelruna antiqua
The prophecy of Sibylla
I look into the mirror, a picture appears
Future, future...
A prophecy I see
I behold in the well: 2012
On the cross, on the hanged man's flesh you can read the runes of this prophecy
I can read the signs
I see!
Eagles don't eat flies
Movements in the sky predict the year
The mind of mine flies high... ;)


 
Davidjayjordan said:
Josephus from what I heard was not a believer, just a historian bought and paid for, to write down facts as most historians are told to do.

Jesus was a historical figure, it can not be denied even though false skeptics want to deny anything positive or the most positive person that ever lived.
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Yes, Josephus was an historian. But the passage in question was very likely not written by Josephus, but rather by a Christian scribe many years later. If this is the case (and there is good evidence that it is) then the writings of Josephus do nothing to support the existence of Jesus Christ let alone his divinity. Even many Christian scholars (and by that I mean scholars who are Christian, not just scholars of Christianity) are highly suspicious of the authenticity of the Testimonium Flavianum. I know you like the poetic ring of the words "false skeptic" but a real false skeptic would be someone who only embraces evidence that supports an idea that he chooses to endorse and ignores evidence that points toward a different truth.
 
jsfisher said:
What's the point?

Your underlying assumptions that led to to this time line are what should be exposed and discussed. If you miscounted days on a calendar, that is easily fixed, but if your logic and reasoning is suspect, that is an entirely different matter.

So, what specific "input" drove the creation of that time line? (And please, just say what you have to say without any URLs or questionable relevance.)
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Being direct..

I wanted to teach my kids what I learned about prophecy, bnut wanted them to have a solid base rather than the mixed up ever changing one in the Children of God group....... so I spent a whole winter studying.... and one particular consistent repeating theme keep coming to light. Irrevefutable, undeniable, there will be a second exodus.... it is said in about 7 places.

Jeremiah 51:6-9,13
Mathew 24:16 ...
Revelations 12:15,16
I Corinthians 10:11
Revelations 12:6
Micah 7:15
Hosea 2:1 & 15
Esdras 15:11
Zechariah 2, 9, 10
Amos 9:11
Joel 2:28-31
Ezekiel 34:13 -25
Jeremiah 23:3,6

I indexed the whole old testament as I knew the NEW Testament and because it meshed perfectly I figured the Lord had done the leading.

IF it fits, accept it..... and it does.

I still have these huge word linkages somewhere.

From there it was rather easy as I made the Daniel timeline, the Revelations graph, and then the web site.

The first article was basically Here with those exact verses that repeatedly showed a SECOND EXODUS.

http://www.geocities.com/davidjayjordan/2ndExodus1.html

The rest is history or should I say prophecy
 
Mind you, I had already given up my career, my inheritance and been a missionary for 13 years before the Lord showed me these things so it could definitely take a little more than just study study study... insights and inspiration are needed...other wise we have eyes to see and see NOT.
 
Davidjayjordan said:
Being direct..

I wanted to teach my kids what I learned about prophecy, bnut wanted them to have a solid base rather than the mixed up ever changing one in the Children of God group....... so I spent a whole winter studying.... and one particular consistent repeating theme keep coming to light. Irrevefutable, undeniable, there will be a second exodus.... it is said in about 7 places.

Jeremiah 51:6-9,13
Mathew 24:16 ...
Revelations 12:15,16
I Corinthians 10:11
Revelations 12:6
Micah 7:15
Hosea 2:1 & 15
Esdras 15:11
Zechariah 2, 9, 10
Amos 9:11
Joel 2:28-31
Ezekiel 34:13 -25
Jeremiah 23:3,6

I indexed the whole old testament as I knew the NEW Testament and because it meshed perfectly I figured the Lord had done the leading.

IF it fits, accept it..... and it does.

I still have these huge word linkages somewhere.

From there it was rather easy as I made the Daniel timeline, the Revelations graph, and then the web site.

The first article was basically Here with those exact verses that repeatedly showed a SECOND EXODUS.

http://

The rest is history or should I say prophecy
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So where's this second exodus going to go from and to? I just want to be prepared, so I can head the other way. :D
 
David, you are still pushing your "prophecy" based on a moldy old book written by men with no proof of divine origin. We have no reason to believe you. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.

You are like all the others who shout "Repent for the time is at hand" only to have that time come and go without a single bit of the "prophecy" coming true. YAWN. Been there, done that, and still waiting to hear the reasons why the previous prophecies just didn't pan out.

So I will say to you what I have said to others "When the Rapture comes can I have your car?".
 
Kochanski said:
David, you are still pushing your "prophecy" based on a moldy old book written by men with no proof of divine origin. We have no reason to believe you. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA.
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Isn't this the new and improved DJJ prophecy? Sure, the first one was a bit lacking, but if it's new and improved, it has to be right, no?
 
Davidjayjordan said:
....we have eyes to see and see NOT.
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Like saying "none so blind as those who refuse to see?" In another case, "none so deaf as those who refuse to hear?"

What makes you different from all of the previous Doomsday Prophets?

Nothing.

Hope your family will fare well.
 
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