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Proof of Immortality II

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pakeha said:
Really, carlitos, I mean to say, WTF was THAT?

ETA
Ah.
Wiki informed me.
10,000 episodes.
About as close to immortality as you get.
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There were also some earlier references to the soap opera. Not quite a thread meme, but getting there.
 
Jabba said:
Toon,
- Do you agree that the scientific belief that we each have only one finite life to live (at most) is very likely wrong?
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Toontown said:
That question would be difficult to answer even if I wanted to invite multiple hyena attacks by answering it. Because my entire paradigm is different from yours. I agree that the unique brain explanation fails to account for my sentient experience, since the probability of any particular unique brain does crowd zero rather closely, forcing me to assume that my sentient experience is occurring in spite of ridiculous odds, [if] I accept the unique brain explanation.
Plus, your wording is confusing Godless Dave, which is to be expected. Our language is not designed for this kind of discussion, and does not express the concept you are trying to express well.
When you say "we", Godless Dave interprets that as 'we the currently existing unique brains'. Under the interpretation Godless Dave chooses, 'we the currently existing unique brains' have precisely 1 life to live.
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- Could you describe your paradigm for me – privately, if not publically?
- I’ve said this before, but in case you missed it -- maybe we do have just one life to live, but we live the very same life over and over again… Doesn’t seem too likely, but that would also explain the improbability of my current existence.
- Another, more likely prospect I think -- maybe “now” isn’t what we think it is…
 
jsfisher said:
Don't set me up with straight lines like that. :D
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You know you want to...



Jabba said:
- Could you describe your paradigm for me – privately, if not publically?
- I’ve said this before, but in case you missed it -- maybe we do have just one life to live, but we live the very same life over and over again… Doesn’t seem too likely, but that would also explain the improbability of my current existence.
- Another, more likely prospect I think -- maybe “now” isn’t what we think it is…
Click to expand...

"maybe we do have just one life to live, but we live the very same life over and over again… Doesn’t seem too likely, but that would also explain the improbability of my current existence."

I have this awful image of a universe where a random DOOL episode is being played out over and over and over...
 
The formation of a particular grain of sand is highly improbably. And yet beaches and deserts are full of them.

Maybe the scientific model of sand formation is correct.
 
Giordano said:
The Texas Sharpshooter fallacy is that, prior to picking a target number, you role a pair of dice, see a 2 comes up, then decide that 2 was your target after all. You have chosen your target after the event. So we agree that the probability before you throw the dice of getting a 2 is 35:1, but your probability of getting some number between 2 and 12 before you throw a standard pair of dice is near 1. If you chose your hit point as whatever appears on the top of the dice after your throw, your probability of getting your hit point is near 1.
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With the highlighted dismal analogy failure, you have succeeded in inadvertently pointing out the difference between the sharpshooter fallacy and Jabba's reasoning.

There was no near-1 probability of Jabba's specific brain existing. The probability was near zero, because you all agree that Jabba did not have the option of choosing which brain he would be, either before or after.

You all agree that there was 1 and only one possible Jabba-brain, never was any other possible Jabba-brain, never will be any other possible Jabba-brain. That brain got 1 shot only: One very specific organization, one very specific place, one very specific time, or nothingness forever. It doesn't get any more starkly selective than that, from Jabba's conditional perspective.

So you're all contradicting yourselves every time you invoke the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy. That ain't what this is. This is conditional probability.

One more time: you all agree that there was no group of possible Jabba-brains, summing to 1.
 
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godless dave said:
The formation of a particular grain of sand is highly improbably. And yet beaches and deserts are full of them.

Maybe the scientific model of sand formation is correct.
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The scientific model of sand formation is correct. But sand doesn't banish nothingness.

The scientific model of brain formation is also correct. And sentient brains do banish nothingness.

If you want to sell me your crapped-out model of a ludicrously improbable flicker of sentience, which, if it ever ludicrously improbably happens at all, occurs only fleetingly in the midst of eternal nothingness, you'll have to do better than talk about sand. We've all been waiting a lifetime for this eternal nothingness to engulf us, but no one has ever seen hide nor hair of it. Sure, the eternal nothingness has it's fervent believers, who take it on faith, but can't even talk about it without contradicting themselves. But I'm not among the believers.
 
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Toontown said:
We've all been waiting a lifetime for this eternal nothingness to engulf us, but no one has ever seen hide nor hair of it.
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****, it's coming at you (all of us) head on. I'd recommend a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and someone you like before it hits.
 
We've all been waiting a lifetime for this eternal nothingness to engulf us, but no one has ever seen hide nor hair of it.
Click to expand...

That's because when you're dead, you can't see anything.

There is no nothingness, that's just our egocentric view of it. We'll experience nothingness in the same way a broken microphone hears silence.
 
Toontown said:
With the highlighted dismal analogy failure, you have succeeded in inadvertently pointing out the difference between the sharpshooter fallacy and Jabba's reasoning.

There was no near-1 probability of Jabba's specific brain existing. The probability was near zero, because you all agree that Jabba did not have the option of choosing which brain he would be, either before or after.

You all agree that there was 1 and only one possible Jabba-brain, never was any other possible Jabba-brain, never will be any other possible Jabba-brain. That brain got 1 shot only: One very specific organization, one very specific place, one very specific time, or nothingness forever. It doesn't get any more starkly selective than that, from Jabba's conditional perspective.

So you're all contradicting yourselves every time you invoke the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy. That ain't what this is. This is conditional probability.

One more time: you all agree that there was no group of possible Jabba-brains, summing to 1.
Click to expand...
Advance conditional probability of you agreeing with my point about Texas Sharpshooters = near zero. Actual result of you agreeing with my point = zero. Probability calculation confirmed. Value in me trying to explain it again = near zero.
 
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Jabba said:
- Could you describe your paradigm for me – privately, if not publically?
- I’ve said this before, but in case you missed it -- maybe we do have just one life to live, but we live the very same life over and over again… Doesn’t seem too likely, but that would also explain the improbability of my current existence.
- Another, more likely prospect I think -- maybe “now” isn’t what we think it is…
Click to expand...

That's some heavy **** right there, man. How do we know that words mean what we think they mean? Hey man, did someone make them the Dictionary Gods?

Liberate the dictionary, and don't bogart that joint, my friend.
 
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Toontown said:
We've all been waiting a lifetime for this eternal nothingness to engulf us, but no one has ever seen hide nor hair of it.
Click to expand...
I've seen it. A lot. Although I can't prove it is eternal (that would take a long time), it sure looks that way to me from what I've seen.
 
Jabba said:
maybe we do have just one life to live, but we live the very same life over and over again.
Click to expand...

Richard Feynman is quoted as saying, "I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring." Imagine living the same life over and over again!
 
Jabba said:
Toon,
- Do you agree that the scientific belief that we each have only one finite life to live (at most) is very likely wrong?
Click to expand...

1) I've never heard the term 'scientific belief' except from creationists and their ID confederates. What is your understanding of this term, and why have you abandoned the less ambiguous term 'scientific model'?

2) What is your source for this purported 'scientific belief' with regards to immortality?

Others have asked you, and I don't expect you to answer me either.

I just want your invisible cheerleaders (whomever they may be) to see you put on the spot again.
 
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Toontown said:
I agree that the unique brain explanation fails to account for my sentient experience, since the probability of any particular unique brain does crowd zero rather closely, forcing me to assume that my sentient experience is occurring in spite of ridiculous odds, [if] I accept the unique brain explanation.
Click to expand...


The probability of any particular brain existing only matters if that particular brain is somehow special. The probability of any particular arrangement of particles in the universe at a given time crowds zero rather closely (far more closely than the probability of any particular brain, in fact), but at any given time there will be a particular arrangement of particles.
 
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