Problems With Magnetic Reconnection

[michaelsuede]

I am shocked and appalled. Etiquette demands that you blockquote 10kb of text from plasmacosmology.info before declaring victory. A photo of Birkeland's terella would be acceptable if both seconds agree.

Awe come on

At least try to answer my question.

Does the double layer exist or does one not exist.

That's all I'm asking for.

 

[sol invictus]

What is wrong with this B-field, Michael?

{Bx,By} = {b*y, a*x}

And why don't you illustrate for us that you understand freshman-level electrodynamics by computing its curl and divergence. If you cannot do that in your head or in a few seconds on paper, you have no business whatsoever discussing this topic.

Can you do that?

Gibberish.

What are the divergence and curl of that B-field, Michael?

Why can't you answer this question, Michael? Could it be you don't understand basic electrodynamics?

 

[Ziggurat]

I can compute that there is no such thing as a null point singularity in real 3 dimensional space.

No you cannot. In fact, it's under considerable doubt that you can compute anything.

You have been presented with the equation for a vector field. From this equation, you should be able to calculate two important quantities: the divergence and the curl, both of which appear in Maxwell's equations. Can you or can you not calculate these quantities?

Especially in the middle of a current sheet.

I never said that this was the equation for the magnetic field in the middle of a current sheet. I only claimed that it was a valid magnetic field for some current configuration.

 

[michaelsuede]

No, you aren't understanding me at all. The volume over which the field may or may not be zero depends upon the system under consideration. For a toroidal solenoid, the field is completely confined to the solenoid, and is zero everywhere outside the solenoid. If one has a spherical shell of superconductor with nothing inside, then the field will be zero within that sphere. If one has a cylindrical wire with uniform current flowing through, then only the central axis (a zero-volume null point) has zero field. It all depends on the system you're looking at.

Indeed, the system is the problem here.

We aren't talking about a closed system now are we.

 

[michaelsuede]

Why can't you answer this question, Michael? Could it be you don't understand basic electrodynamics?

I'll answer your question when you tell me why there is no double layer at the boundary of differing plasmas.

I asked first.

 

[Ziggurat]

Indeed, the system is the problem here.

We aren't talking about a closed system now are we.

My equation wasn't for a closed system, so... you've got no point.

Furthermore, it has escaped no one's notice that you have yet to calculate either the curl or the divergence of the field I gave you. If you cannot do even such simple calculations, then you really have no chance at understanding electrodynamics at even the most basic level. And if you don't understand simple electrodynamics, well, your criticism of a topic involving complex electrodynamics is.. unreliable. To put it mildly.

 

[sol invictus]

I'll answer your question when you tell me why there is no double layer at the boundary of differing plasmas.

I asked first.

That's not how this works, Michael. You're the one that started the thread. You're the one making the claim that an entire field of expert researchers is wrong about a basic point. You're the one that needs to provide evidence that your assertions are correct, or at least reasonable.

You can't answer even this simple question, and it's transparently obvious why.

 

[michaelsuede]

That's not how this works, Michael. You're the one that started the thread. You're the one making the claim that an entire field of expert researchers is wrong about a basic point. You're the one that needs to provide evidence that your assertions are correct, or at least reasonable.

You can't answer even this simple question, and it's transparently obvious why.

LOL

Great scientific response.

I hope you aren't teaching any students.

You are supposed to be far smarter than me, it isn't fair to make the dumb kid go first.

 

[Mister Earl]

Is this going to be another one of those "I'm going to overturn a large segment of known physics with this idea I have and random documents I link to but refuse to math" threads?

 

[michaelsuede]

Is this going to be another one of those "I'm going to overturn a large segment of known physics with this idea I have and random documents I link to but refuse to math" threads?

I would stop arguing this instant if they could tell me why there is no double layer at the boundary of differing plasmas.

You see, admitting that there is indeed a double layer at the boundary of differing plasmas is the same as them admitting that there is no such thing as magnetic reconnection.

They can't do it.

On the other hand, whether I get their question right or wrong has no bearing on anything.

 

[Ziggurat]

You are supposed to be far smarter than me, it isn't fair to make the dumb kid go first.

Smarter or dumber, the person making the claim goes first. That's you. Show us why anyone should take anything you say seriously. Show us that you're competent enough to do even basic electrodynamic calculations.

Or you could just admit that you don't know the math, you don't have the understanding to evaluate competing theories, and that you only believed this stuff because it sounded plausible to you even though you're in no position to actually evaluate it's merits.

I do not actually expect such brutal honesty, but it would be refreshing.

 

[Ziggurat]

Is this going to be another one of those "I'm going to overturn a large segment of known physics with this idea I have and random documents I link to but refuse to math" threads?

It already is, Earl. It already is.

 

[Dancing David]

Awe come on

At least try to answer my question.

Does the double layer exist or does one not exist.

That's all I'm asking for.

Um sure, then why did you make your OP so long?

 

[michaelsuede]

Um sure, then why did you make your OP so long?

Because I didn't write that article for astrophysicists, I wrote it for average joe electrical engineers who understand circuit theory.

Any electrical engineer reading the article will find it quite compelling.

 

[Dancing David]

LOL

Great scientific response.

I hope you aren't teaching any students.

You are supposed to be far smarter than me, it isn't fair to make the dumb kid go first.

I see that you have resorted to argument through rhetoric rather than showing you understand the question, never a good sign.

 

[Mister Earl]

The difference being, you made a claim with your OP. Sol was nice enough to give you a simple math problem (Not for me, I admit! I am no scientist. Yet.) that shows there is a flaw with your idea. If you intend to examine this scientifically, I'd expect that you'd address Sol's exercise, examine the new information, compare that with your idea, then adjust as necessary.

But to me it looks like you know there's a problem, but rather than address it, you're trying to lure people off on a tangent away from the problem. I know little of science, but even I can see a problem with the way you're handling this.

 

[catsmate]

Haven't we been through all this before?

Yes several times. However every EU/PC crank insists on repeating the process, refuses to read previously posted material and posts the same nonsense. Though this poster seems to believe in an enlarged conspiracy.......

 

[catsmate]

Good

Looks like I won this round.

Unjustified arrogance rocks.

 

[ben m]

The OP did not say "reconnection can't occur because there's a double layer, and a current sheet, and there's infinity, and also 3D, and plasma". It said:

Since a magnetic field is an infinite continuum, there can be no splitting and reconnecting of field lines. In order for a field line (which is a mathematical construct used to describe the location of a magnetic field) to “reconnect” it would first have to be spliced in half.

Funny how quickly that morphs into a totally different argument about how magnetic reconnection doesn't work in some specific plasma context. It's not just moving the goalposts. The goalposts have been removed and replaced with a panel of figure-skating judges.

 

[catsmate]

I have no idea what you mean by "infinite vector field", that sounds like a term you invented all by yourself.

That'd be worth ten points on the Crackpot Scale then.

Given that you are engaging in ad homs rather than explaining why there is no double layer, I will consider that a victory for my cause.

Hmm, I *think* that's another ten points. Though if you resort to "hidebound reactionary" or "self-appointed defender of the orthodoxy" you get twenty. It's forty points when you start comparing those who argue against your ideas to Nazis, stormtroopers, or brownshirts.