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Prince Andrew (Allegations of Famous People Engaged in Bad Sex Part 57)

FromBelgiumWithLove said:
Cross-border law can certainly become very complicated. A friend of mine specialized in maritime law, and he was always dealing with cases involving, say, a ship under the flag of country A bumping into a ship under the flag of country B in the territorial waters of country C. Add to that that both the crews and the owners of those ships usually aren't from either A, B or C, and often don't reside in the country of their citizenship. Sometimes things could be solved by bluffing: one could get people to testify even though they weren't under any obligation to do so, what mattered was having them believe they were, or that it would mean less ongoing trouble for them if they did.

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One of the great things you get to do if you practise shipping law (which I never did, sadly) was to 'arrest' a ship. I knew a guy who once had to be lowered by helicopter onto the upturned hull of a ship that had turned turtle to 'arrest' it. The story is so old I may well have made it up.
 
According to Michael Heseltine, the idea that Leon Brittan suppressed the file alleging paedophilia against high ranking figures simply shows people don't know how government works. For one thing, how would he get the civil servants to join in with suppressing the file? The whole idea is clearly preposterous.

.......

So where's the *********** file then?
 
anglolawyer said:
According to Michael Heseltine, the idea that Leon Brittan suppressed the file alleging paedophilia against high ranking figures simply shows people don't know how government works. For one thing, how would he get the civil servants to join in with suppressing the file? The whole idea is clearly preposterous.

.......

So where's the *********** file then?
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How does a minister get civil servants to do things? Instructing them to do the things sounds like a good start.
 
Craig B said:
How does a minister get civil servants to do things? Instructing them to do the things sounds like a good start.
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That a government like ours, shrouded in and obsessed with secrecy about even the most banal things, does not know how to lose a file is beyond absurd. Why can't he have taken the file home himself and put it in the trash? And why didn't the MP who gave him the file keep a copy? :confused:
 
Because it wouldn't have been handed directly to him by the MP. it would have gone through a PPS who would have handed it on after recording it .
There was nothing sensational in the dossier, it was all old claims that had been bandied aboutfor a while, the MP just put them all together and collected them. It was probably thrown in the bin.
 
anglolawyer said:
Not sure if this is the right thread but Leon Brittan just died and you can't libel the dead.
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Interesting, I wonder if the rumours of his preferences that were (to my knowledge) circulating from the 80s will now start to make their way into more mainstream reporting.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Because it wouldn't have been handed directly to him by the MP. it would have gone through a PPS who would have handed it on after recording it .
There was nothing sensational in the dossier, it was all old claims that had been bandied aboutfor a while, the MP just put them all together and collected them. It was probably thrown in the bin.
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How do you know what was in it? Is that in the public domain? If its contents are already known why does it matter that it was lost?
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Because it wouldn't have been handed directly to him by the MP. it would have gone through a PPS who would have handed it on after recording it .
There was nothing sensational in the dossier, it was all old claims that had been bandied aboutfor a while, the MP just put them all together and collected them. It was probably thrown in the bin.
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From what I read a few months back it was handed directly to him and then he passed it on to his civil servants.

ETA :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30944441 this states that there there may have been two prosecutions from the dossier, and given when that call was made I would say that the dossier did contain serious fact based allegations and accusations.
 
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Craig B said:
How does a minister get civil servants to do things? Instructing them to do the things sounds like a good start.
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How naive. You clearly missed an excellent series the BBC made about the workings of government.

anglolawyer said:
That a government like ours, shrouded in and obsessed with secrecy about even the most banal things, does not know how to lose a file is beyond absurd. Why can't he have taken the file home himself and put it in the trash? And why didn't the MP who gave him the file keep a copy? :confused:
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This. The idea that Brittan (or his civil servants) could have "lost" the file is preposterous.
 
Darat said:
Interesting, I wonder if the rumours of his preferences that were (to my knowledge) circulating from the 80s will now start to make their way into more mainstream reporting.
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You bet they will. Give the Daily Mail a couple of days to allow the 'respect for the dead' period to elapse and they will have at it.
 
Darat said:
Interesting, I wonder if the rumours of his preferences that were (to my knowledge) circulating from the 80s will now start to make their way into more mainstream reporting.
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What were they?
 
anglolawyer said:
So where's the *********** file then?
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According to what I've just heard on the Today programme, there may never have been a "dossier" as such. It could be nothing more than just a letter or two from Geoffrey Dickens to Brittan, containing stories that were going round the Westminster rumour mill, or had already been hinted at in the press. There was talk of press clippings possibly being part of the alleged dossier. If it only contained things that were already publicly available anyway, it could explain why it wasn't kept.

anglolawyer said:
And why didn't the MP who gave him the file keep a copy? :confused:
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Indeed. If an experienced politician, or anyone else with some common sense for that matter, has compiled a supposed bombshell dossier about powerful people, how is it conceivable he didn't keep a copy? And why, after he'd sent it to Brittan and nothing happened, did he never do anything further about it? Especially since he could name names, using parliamentary privilege.
 
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FromBelgiumWithLove said:
According to what I've just heard on the Today programme, there may never have been a "dossier" as such. It could be nothing more than just a letter or two from Geoffrey Dickens to Brittan, containing stories that were going round the Westminster rumour mill, or had already been hinted at in the press. There was talk of press clippings possibly being part of the alleged dossier. If it only contained things that were already publicly available anyway, it could explain why it wasn't kept.



Indeed. If an experienced politician, or anyone else with some common sense for that matter, has compiled a supposed bombshell dossier about powerful people, how is it conceivable he didn't keep a copy? And why, after he'd sent it to Brittan and nothing happened, did he never do anything further about it? Especially since he could name names, using parliamentary privilege.
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Beyond bizarre. Actually the shenanigans among the ruling elite in trying to find a posh person who has not been involved in child-rogering directly or indirectly is probably vastly more interesting than the subject matter of the never-to-be-held inquiry.
 
anglolawyer said:
Beyond bizarre. Actually the shenanigans among the ruling elite in trying to find a posh person who has not been involved in child-rogering directly or indirectly is probably vastly more interesting than the subject matter of the never-to-be-held inquiry.
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It's a losing game though. Whoever is put forward someone will find something to object about. Unless the inquiry is run on the terms of the groups that represent the 'Survivors' and confirms all their accusations it will never take place.

If some kind of inquiry does happen it will be branded a 'Whitewash' even before it reports.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
It's a losing game though. Whoever is put forward someone will find something to object about. Unless the inquiry is run on the terms of the groups that represent the 'Survivors' and confirms all their accusations it will never take place.

If some kind of inquiry does happen it will be branded a 'Whitewash' even before it reports.
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Such indeed is the English way. We are a nation of hypocrites.
 
It hasn't yet been mentioned that recently released documents show that Brittan, while Home Secretary, discussed banning sex toys in the UK with Margaret Thatcher. The Obscene Publications Act was to be used for this purpose.

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/margaret-thatcher-considered-banning-sex-toys-uk301214. Warning: while I did my best to pick a link that doesn't have a picture of dildos, it does have an explicit picture of Margaret Thatcher.
 
FromBelgiumWithLove said:
It hasn't yet been mentioned that recently released documents show that Brittan, while Home Secretary, discussed banning sex toys in the UK with Margaret Thatcher. The Obscene Publications Act was to be used for this purpose.

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/margaret-thatcher-considered-banning-sex-toys-uk301214. Warning: while I did my best to pick a link that doesn't have a picture of dildos, it does have an explicit picture of Margaret Thatcher.
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Who better to regulate our sex laws than a collection of upper class Eton toffs brought up on rogering their fags after evensong?
 
Darat said:
The usual, young rent boys but not "paedophilia young" .
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I have been missing so much. That'll teach me not to read the Daily Mail! How's this for a headline (and this is recent, while Brittan was still alive):

Are the vile paedophile allegations against Leon Brittan a sinister MI5 smear plot?

I love the way they put up a picture of that sinister den of gay iniquity, the by now legendary Elm Guest House (a nondescript terraced house, as it happens). Just to make sure their readers know that Leon Brittan very, very definitely never had anything to do with that place.
 
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