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President Obama and Afghanistan: Speech Critiques

Darth Rotor

Salted Sith Cynic
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
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Just watched the President's speech at West Point. The blabbing classes are now attempting to spin his speech, so I have shut them off. Here is some of what I got out of it.

General McChrystal asked for 40K, he'll get about 30K beginning in early 2010.

The time limit is about 18 months. Then, since it is presumed various civil objectives laid down for the Afghan governmental effort will be achieved, the draw down commences. (Cynical me notes proximity to US 2012 election, but hey, politics is the father of war, even now).

Article V of NATO treaty and original UN tie in brought up, and appeal to a coalition of 43 nations is made. (Coalition of the willing allies, I guess. US strategy since Desert Storm has been to do such things via coalitions).

Appeal to "Sept 12" Americans is made, to remind Americans that we were at one point sort of unified behind the effort in Afghanistan. He asks that we collectively focus on that again, and unite under a common purpose.

Pointed out (his speech writers must read my posts here :p ) that US has underwritten Global security, as no other nation has, for over sixty years. He assures the world that we will continue to do so. He made a comment that I took as a greater emphasis on non armed means in the future. Tied that to his "no nukes" long term aim, which he juxtaposed with the aims of terrorists to get their hands on nukes.

He presented a direct tie in between US security and Pakistani security, and an effort to strengthen both Pakistani civil and armed efforts versus extremism.

Made some allusions to the Iraq war's costs, 30 billion a year for Afghanistan next year, and US forces leaving Iraq.

Much else.

It was a pretty decent speech, longer on business like presentation of what, why, and when, and shorter on platitudes and filler, though some crept in at the end. A nice change. Tone clipped and direct.

In defining a limited war for a limited objective, rather than as he called it " an open ended nation building effort" he placed himself squarely in GHW Bush's strategic school of thought. (I expect a thousand points of light to arrive shortly under a different name, domestically). He also pointed out that the core nation building he is interested in is in the US. HE made the usual comments in re the linkage between economic strength, and the tie in to diplomatic and military power derived from that. Boilerplate stuff.

What I liked most about his speech was the dry, business like delivery; the clarity of thought, the explicit aims, and the acknowledgment of some of the more obvious challenges.

He stated his position in re Al Qaeda and Taliban: they are stuck on the same side, in our eyes. I expect much fruitful criticism of that baseline position among the more elegant opinion writers in the coming weeks.

Will seek a transcript tomorrow for a more detailed critique and commentary.

ETA:
:)

Thank you, Lisa, for providing the transcript so soon, I was going from hearing it to the critique.

DR
 
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Transcript:

Good evening. To the United States Corps of Cadets, to the men and women of our armed services, and to my fellow Americans: I want to speak to you tonight about our effort in Afghanistan – the nature of our commitment there, the scope of our interests, and the strategy that my Administration will pursue to bring this war to a successful conclusion. It is an honor for me to do so here – at West Point – where so many men and women have prepared to stand up for our security, and to represent what is finest about our country.

To address these issues, it is important to recall why America and our allies were compelled to fight a war in Afghanistan in the first place. We did not ask for this fight. On September 11, 2001, nineteen men hijacked four airplanes and used them to murder nearly 3,000 people. They struck at our military and economic nerve centers. They took the lives of innocent men, women, and children without regard to their faith or race or station. Were it not for the heroic actions of the passengers on board one of those flights, they could have also struck at one of the great symbols of our democracy in Washington, and killed many more.

As we know, these men belonged to al Qaeda – a group of extremists who have distorted and defiled Islam, one of the world’s great religions, to justify the slaughter of innocents. Al Qaeda’s base of operations was in Afghanistan, where they were harbored by the Taliban – a ruthless, repressive and radical movement that seized control of that country after it was ravaged by years of Soviet occupation and civil war, and after the attention of America and our friends had turned elsewhere.

Just days after 9/11, Congress authorized the use of force against al Qaeda and those who harbored them – an authorization that continues to this day. The vote in the Senate was 98 to 0. The vote in the House was 420 to 1. For the first time in its history, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization invoked Article 5 – the commitment that says an attack on one member nation is an attack on all. And the United Nations Security Council endorsed the use of all necessary steps to respond to the 9/11 attacks. America, our allies and the world were acting as one to destroy al Qaeda’s terrorist network, and to protect our common security.

Under the banner of this domestic unity and international legitimacy – and only after the Taliban refused to turn over Osama bin Laden – we sent our troops into Afghanistan. Within a matter of months, al Qaeda was scattered and many of its operatives were killed. The Taliban was driven from power and pushed back on its heels. A place that had known decades of fear now had reason to hope. At a conference convened by the UN, a provisional government was established under President Hamid Karzai. And an International Security Assistance Force was established to help bring a lasting peace to a war-torn country.

Then, in early 2003, the decision was made to wage a second war in Iraq. The wrenching debate over the Iraq War is well-known and need not be repeated here. It is enough to say that for the next six years, the Iraq War drew the dominant share of our troops, our resources, our diplomacy, and our national attention – and that the decision to go into Iraq caused substantial rifts between America and much of the world.

Today, after extraordinary costs, we are bringing the Iraq war to a responsible end. We will remove our combat brigades from Iraq by the end of next summer, and all of our troops by the end of 2011. That we are doing so is a testament to the character of our men and women in uniform. Thanks to their courage, grit and perseverance , we have given Iraqis a chance to shape their future, and we are successfully leaving Iraq to its people.

But while we have achieved hard-earned milestones in Iraq, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated. After escaping across the border into Pakistan in 2001 and 2002, al Qaeda’s leadership established a safe-haven there. Although a legitimate government was elected by the Afghan people, it has been hampered by corruption, the drug trade, an under-developed economy, and insufficient Security Forces. Over the last several years, the Taliban has maintained common cause with al Qaeda, as they both seek an overthrow of the Afghan government. Gradually, the Taliban has begun to take control over swaths of Afghanistan, while engaging in increasingly brazen and devastating acts of terrorism against the Pakistani people.

Throughout this period, our troop levels in Afghanistan remained a fraction of what they were in Iraq. When I took office, we had just over 32,000 Americans serving in Afghanistan, compared to 160,000 in Iraq at the peak of the war. Commanders in Afghanistan repeatedly asked for support to deal with the reemergence of the Taliban, but these reinforcements did not arrive. That’s why, shortly after taking office, I approved a long-standing request for more troops. After consultations with our allies, I then announced a strategy recognizing the fundamental connection between our war effort in Afghanistan, and the extremist safe-havens in Pakistan. I set a goal that was narrowly defined as disrupting, dismantling, and defeating al Qaeda and its extremist allies, and pledged to better coordinate our military and civilian effort.

Since then, we have made progress on some important objectives. High-ranking al Qaeda and Taliban leaders have been killed, and we have stepped up the pressure on al Qaeda world-wide. In Pakistan, that nation’s Army has gone on its largest offensive in years. In Afghanistan, we and our allies prevented the Taliban from stopping a presidential election, and – although it was marred by fraud – that election produced a government that is consistent with Afghanistan’s laws and Constitution.

Yet huge challenges remain. Afghanistan is not lost, but for several years it has moved backwards. There is no imminent threat of the government being overthrown, but the Taliban has gained momentum. Al Qaeda has not reemerged in Afghanistan in the same numbers as before 9/11, but they retain their safe-havens along the border. And our forces lack the full support they need to effectively train and partner with Afghan Security Forces and better secure the population. Our new Commander in Afghanistan – General McChrystal – has reported that the security situation is more serious than he anticipated. In short: the status quo is not sustainable.

As cadets, you volunteered for service during this time of danger. Some of you have fought in Afghanistan. Many will deploy there. As your Commander-in-Chief, I owe you a mission that is clearly defined, and worthy of your service. That is why, after the Afghan voting was completed, I insisted on a thorough review of our strategy. Let me be clear: there has never been an option before me that called for troop deployments before 2010, so there has been no delay or denial of resources necessary for the conduct of the war. Instead, the review has allowed me ask the hard questions, and to explore all of the different options along with my national security team, our military and civilian leadership in Afghanistan, and with our key partners. Given the stakes involved, I owed the American people – and our troops – no less.

This review is now complete. And as Commander-in-Chief, I have determined that it is in our vital national interest to send an additional 30,000 U.S. troops to Afghanistan. After 18 months, our troops will begin to come home. These are the resources that we need to seize the initiative, while building the Afghan capacity that can allow for a responsible transition of our forces out of Afghanistan.

I do not make this decision lightly. I opposed the war in Iraq precisely because I believe that we must exercise restraint in the use of military force, and always consider the long-term consequences of our actions. We have been at war for eight years, at enormous cost in lives and resources. Years of debate over Iraq and terrorism have left our unity on national security issues in tatters, and created a highly polarized and partisan backdrop for this effort. And having just experienced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression, the American people are understandably focused on rebuilding our economy and putting people to work here at home.

Most of all, I know that this decision asks even more of you – a military that, along with your families, has already borne the heaviest of all burdens. As President, I have signed a letter of condolence to the family of each American who gives their life in these wars. I have read the letters from the parents and spouses of those who deployed. I have visited our courageous wounded warriors at Walter Reed. I have travelled to Dover to meet the flag-draped caskets of 18 Americans returning home to their final resting place. I see firsthand the terrible wages of war. If I did not think that the security of the United States and the safety of the American people were at stake in Afghanistan, I would gladly order every single one of our troops home tomorrow.

So no – I do not make this decision lightly. I make this decision because I am convinced that our security is at stake in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is the epicenter of the violent extremism practiced by al Qaeda. It is from here that we were attacked on 9/11, and it is from here that new attacks are being plotted as I speak. This is no idle danger; no hypothetical threat. In the last few months alone, we have apprehended extremists within our borders who were sent here from the border region of Afghanistan and Pakistan to commit new acts of terror. This danger will only grow if the region slides backwards, and al Qaeda can operate with impunity. We must keep the pressure on al Qaeda, and to do that, we must increase the stability and capacity of our partners in the region.

Of course, this burden is not ours alone to bear. This is not just America’s war. Since 9/11, al Qaeda’s safe-havens have been the source of attacks against London and Amman and Bali. The people and governments of both Afghanistan and Pakistan are endangered. And the stakes are even higher within a nuclear-armed Pakistan, because we know that al Qaeda and other extremists seek nuclear weapons, and we have every reason to believe that they would use them.

These facts compel us to act along with our friends and allies. Our overarching goal remains the same: to disrupt, dismantle, and defeat al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and to prevent its capacity to threaten America and our allies in the future.

To meet that goal, we will pursue the following objectives within Afghanistan. We must deny al Qaeda a safe-haven. We must reverse the Taliban’s momentum and deny it the ability to overthrow the government. And we must strengthen the capacity of Afghanistan’s Security Forces and government, so that they can take lead responsibility for Afghanistan’s future.

We will meet these objectives in three ways. First, we will pursue a military strategy that will break the Taliban’s momentum and increase Afghanistan’s capacity over the next 18 months.

The 30,000 additional troops that I am announcing tonight will deploy in the first part of 2010 – the fastest pace possible – so that they can target the insurgency and secure key population centers. They will increase our ability to train competent Afghan Security Forces, and to partner with them so that more Afghans can get into the fight. And they will help create the conditions for the United States to transfer responsibility to the Afghans.

Because this is an international effort, I have asked that our commitment be joined by contributions from our allies. Some have already provided additional troops, and we are confident that there will be further contributions in the days and weeks ahead. Our friends have fought and bled and died alongside us in Afghanistan. Now, we must come together to end this war successfully. For what’s at stake is not simply a test of NATO’s credibility – what’s at stake is the security of our Allies, and the common security of the world.

Taken together, these additional American and international troops will allow us to accelerate handing over responsibility to Afghan forces, and allow us to begin the transfer of our forces out of Afghanistan in July of 2011. Just as we have done in Iraq, we will execute this transition responsibly, taking into account conditions on the ground. We will continue to advise and assist Afghanistan’s Security Forces to ensure that they can succeed over the long haul. But it will be clear to the Afghan government – and, more importantly, to the Afghan people – that they will ultimately be responsible for their own country.

Second, we will work with our partners, the UN, and the Afghan people to pursue a more effective civilian strategy, so that the government can take advantage of improved security.

This effort must be based on performance. The days of providing a blank check are over. President Karzai’s inauguration speech sent the right message about moving in a new direction. And going forward, we will be clear about what we expect from those who receive our assistance. We will support Afghan Ministries, Governors, and local leaders that combat corruption and deliver for the people. We expect those who are ineffective or corrupt to be held accountable. And we will also focus our assistance in areas – such as agriculture – that can make an immediate impact in the lives of the Afghan people.

The people of Afghanistan have endured violence for decades. They have been confronted with occupation – by the Soviet Union, and then by foreign al Qaeda fighters who used Afghan land for their own purposes. So tonight, I want the Afghan people to understand – America seeks an end to this era of war and suffering. We have no interest in occupying your country. We will support efforts by the Afghan government to open the door to those Taliban who abandon violence and respect the human rights of their fellow citizens. And we will seek a partnership with Afghanistan grounded in mutual respect – to isolate those who destroy; to strengthen those who build; to hasten the day when our troops will leave; and to forge a lasting friendship in which America is your partner, and never your patron.

Third, we will act with the full recognition that our success in Afghanistan is inextricably linked to our partnership with Pakistan.

We are in Afghanistan to prevent a cancer from once again spreading through that country. But this same cancer has also taken root in the border region of Pakistan. That is why we need a strategy that works on both sides of the border.

In the past, there have been those in Pakistan who have argued that the struggle against extremism is not their fight, and that Pakistan is better off doing little or seeking accommodation with those who use violence. But in recent years, as innocents have been killed from Karachi to Islamabad, it has become clear that it is the Pakistani people who are the most endangered by extremism. Public opinion has turned. The Pakistani Army has waged an offensive in Swat and South Waziristan. And there is no doubt that the United States and Pakistan share a common enemy.

In the past, we too often defined our relationship with Pakistan narrowly. Those days are over. Moving forward, we are committed to a partnership with Pakistan that is built on a foundation of mutual interests, mutual respect, and mutual trust. We will strengthen Pakistan’s capacity to target those groups that threaten our countries, and have made it clear that we cannot tolerate a safe-haven for terrorists whose location is known, and whose intentions are clear. America is also providing substantial resources to support Pakistan’s democracy and development. We are the largest international supporter for those Pakistanis displaced by the fighting. And going forward, the Pakistani people must know: America will remain a strong supporter of Pakistan’s security and prosperity long after the guns have fallen silent, so that the great potential of its people can be unleashed.

These are the three core elements of our strategy: a military effort to create the conditions for a transition; a civilian surge that reinforces positive action; and an effective partnership with Pakistan.

I recognize that there are a range of concerns about our approach. So let me briefly address a few of the prominent arguments that I have heard, and which I take very seriously.

First, there are those who suggest that Afghanistan is another Vietnam. They argue that it cannot be stabilized, and we are better off cutting our losses and rapidly withdrawing. Yet this argument depends upon a false reading of history. Unlike Vietnam, we are joined by a broad coalition of 43 nations that recognizes the legitimacy of our action. Unlike Vietnam, we are not facing a broad-based popular insurgency. And most importantly, unlike Vietnam, the American people were viciously attacked from Afghanistan, and remain a target for those same extremists who are plotting along its border. To abandon this area now – and to rely only on efforts against al Qaeda from a distance – would significantly hamper our ability to keep the pressure on al Qaeda, and create an unacceptable risk of additional attacks on our homeland and our allies.

Second, there are those who acknowledge that we cannot leave Afghanistan in its current state, but suggest that we go forward with the troops that we have. But this would simply maintain a status quo in which we muddle through, and permit a slow deterioration of conditions there. It would ultimately prove more costly and prolong our stay in Afghanistan, because we would never be able to generate the conditions needed to train Afghan Security Forces and give them the space to take over.

Finally, there are those who oppose identifying a timeframe for our transition to Afghan responsibility. Indeed, some call for a more dramatic and open-ended escalation of our war effort – one that would commit us to a nation building project of up to a decade. I reject this course because it sets goals that are beyond what we can achieve at a reasonable cost, and what we need to achieve to secure our interests. Furthermore, the absence of a timeframe for transition would deny us any sense of urgency in working with the Afghan government. It must be clear that Afghans will have to take responsibility for their security, and that America has no interest in fighting an endless war in Afghanistan.

As President, I refuse to set goals that go beyond our responsibility, our means, our or interests. And I must weigh all of the challenges that our nation faces. I do not have the luxury of committing to just one. Indeed, I am mindful of the words of President Eisenhower, who – in discussing our national security – said, "Each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs."

Over the past several years, we have lost that balance, and failed to appreciate the connection between our national security and our economy. In the wake of an economic crisis, too many of our friends and neighbors are out of work and struggle to pay the bills, and too many Americans are worried about the future facing our children. Meanwhile, competition within the global economy has grown more fierce. So we simply cannot afford to ignore the price of these wars.

All told, by the time I took office the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan approached a trillion dollars. Going forward, I am committed to addressing these costs openly and honestly. Our new approach in Afghanistan is likely to cost us roughly 30 billion dollars for the military this year, and I will work closely with Congress to address these costs as we work to bring down our deficit.

But as we end the war in Iraq and transition to Afghan responsibility, we must rebuild our strength here at home. Our prosperity provides a foundation for our power. It pays for our military. It underwrites our diplomacy. It taps the potential of our people, and allows investment in new industry. And it will allow us to compete in this century as successfully as we did in the last. That is why our troop commitment in Afghanistan cannot be open-ended – because the nation that I am most interested in building is our own.

Let me be clear: none of this will be easy. The struggle against violent extremism will not be finished quickly, and it extends well beyond Afghanistan and Pakistan. It will be an enduring test of our free society, and our leadership in the world. And unlike the great power conflicts and clear lines of division that defined the 20th century, our effort will involve disorderly regions and diffuse enemies.

So as a result, America will have to show our strength in the way that we end wars and prevent conflict. We will have to be nimble and precise in our use of military power. Where al Qaeda and its allies attempt to establish a foothold – whether in Somalia or Yemen or elsewhere – they must be confronted by growing pressure and strong partnerships.

And we cannot count on military might alone. We have to invest in our homeland security, because we cannot capture or kill every violent extremist abroad. We have to improve and better coordinate our intelligence, so that we stay one step ahead of shadowy networks.

We will have to take away the tools of mass destruction. That is why I have made it a central pillar of my foreign policy to secure loose nuclear materials from terrorists; to stop the spread of nuclear weapons; and to pursue the goal of a world without them. Because every nation must understand that true security will never come from an endless race for ever-more destructive weapons – true security will come for those who reject them.

We will have to use diplomacy, because no one nation can meet the challenges of an interconnected world acting alone. I have spent this year renewing our alliances and forging new partnerships. And we have forged a new beginning between America and the Muslim World – one that recognizes our mutual interest in breaking a cycle of conflict, and that promises a future in which those who kill innocents are isolated by those who stand up for peace and prosperity and human dignity.

Finally, we must draw on the strength of our values – for the challenges that we face may have changed, but the things that we believe in must not. That is why we must promote our values by living them at home – which is why I have prohibited torture and will close the prison at Guantanamo Bay. And we must make it clear to every man, woman and child around the world who lives under the dark cloud of tyranny that America will speak out on behalf of their human rights, and tend to the light of freedom, and justice, and opportunity, and respect for the dignity of all peoples. That is who we are. That is the moral source of America’s authority.

Since the days of Franklin Roosevelt, and the service and sacrifice of our grandparents, our country has borne a special burden in global affairs. We have spilled American blood in many countries on multiple continents. We have spent our revenue to help others rebuild from rubble and develop their own economies. We have joined with others to develop an architecture of institutions – from the United Nations to NATO to the World Bank – that provide for the common security and prosperity of human beings.

We have not always been thanked for these efforts, and we have at times made mistakes. But more than any other nation, the United States of America has underwritten global security for over six decades – a time that, for all its problems, has seen walls come down, markets open, billions lifted from poverty, unparalleled scientific progress, and advancing frontiers of human liberty.

For unlike the great powers of old, we have not sought world domination. Our union was founded in resistance to oppression. We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation’s resources or target other peoples because their faith or ethnicity is different from ours. What we have fought for – and what we continue to fight for – is a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and access opportunity.

As a country, we are not as young – and perhaps not as innocent – as we were when Roosevelt was President. Yet we are still heirs to a noble struggle for freedom. Now we must summon all of our might and moral suasion to meet the challenges of a new age.

In the end, our security and leadership does not come solely from the strength of our arms. It derives from our people – from the workers and businesses who will rebuild our economy; from the entrepreneurs and researchers who will pioneer new industries; from the teachers that will educate our children, and the service of those who work in our communities at home; from the diplomats and Peace Corps volunteers who spread hope abroad; and from the men and women in uniform who are part of an unbroken line of sacrifice that has made government of the people, by the people, and for the people a reality on this Earth.

This vast and diverse citizenry will not always agree on every issue – nor should we. But I also know that we, as a country, cannot sustain our leadership nor navigate the momentous challenges of our time if we allow ourselves to be split asunder by the same rancor and cynicism and partisanship that has in recent times poisoned our national discourse.

It is easy to forget that when this war began, we were united – bound together by the fresh memory of a horrific attack, and by the determination to defend our homeland and the values we hold dear. I refuse to accept the notion that we cannot summon that unity again. I believe with every fiber of my being that we – as Americans – can still come together behind a common purpose. For our values are not simply words written into parchment – they are a creed that calls us together, and that has carried us through the darkest of storms as one nation, one people.

America – we are passing through a time of great trial. And the message that we send in the midst of these storms must be clear: that our cause is just, our resolve unwavering. We will go forward with the confidence that right makes might, and with the commitment to forge an America that is safer, a world that is more secure, and a future that represents not the deepest of fears but the highest of hopes. Thank you, God Bless you, God Bless our troops, and may God Bless the United States of America.
 
Rhetorically, I find very little to fault in the speech.

I even disagree w/ you, DR, regarding what you consider platitudes.

The structure and pacing were very well thought out, and it's quite effective to move from background to strategy to "why we fight".

If he had omitted that last bit, a piece would have been missing. We need to be reminded that this is not just strategic, but that it's inextricable from our values. If he hadn't made that clear link, he would have failed to assure us that he knows why the sacrifices we have made thus far have not been in vain.

In fact, I wish he had made more explicit reference to the sacrifice in human life during the parts of the speech when he was referring to the financial costs. And that's actually my primary criticism of the speech.
 
Rhetorically, I find very little to fault in the speech.
One of his better efforts, yes.
I even disagree w/ you, DR, regarding what you consider platitudes.
Tastes differ, and I have less than charitable thoughts on politicians in general. What I came for I got, the simple issue of Afghanistan and the strategic arena. That he felt he had to tie a few other issues in may be an unavoidable consequence of politics. I understand that, even if I don't like it.


DR
 
Today, after extraordinary costs, we are bringing the Iraq war to a responsible end. We will remove our combat brigades from Iraq by the end of next summer, and all of our troops by the end of 2011. That we are doing so is a testament to the character of our men and women in uniform. Thanks to their courage, grit and perseverance , we have given Iraqis a chance to shape their future, and we are successfully leaving Iraq to its people.

But while we have achieved hard-earned milestones in Iraq, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated.
Goddamn, he's actually defending the Iraq war.
In Afghanistan, we and our allies prevented the Taliban from stopping a presidential election, and – although it was marred by fraud – that election produced a government that is consistent with Afghanistan’s laws and Constitution.
Electoral fraud we can believe in.

Of all the terrible things Obama has done, this probably the worst.
 
Goddamn, he's actually defending the Iraq war.
Not quite.
Electoral fraud we can believe in.
Funny, that. :)
Of all the terrible things Obama has done, this probably the worst.
Bolded for the benefit of the readership here, to identify "stupidity in action" as it happens.

It's a speech. None of his pronouncements were much of a surprise. (If your intention was over the top sarcasm, as Piggy did in the other thread, you failed to communicate it. )

Your usage of 'worst' demonstrates either a failure to grasp meanings in the English language, or a world view losing touch with reality.

Given your demonstrated ability in English, the latter is most likely.

There is still hope for you. Drop an anchor. Scuttle the hyperbole ferry.

DR
 
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Technically I thought it was bold and decisive. I disagreed with a lot of the content, though I'm glad he set a tentative date for draw-down.

One passage that irked me, though it isn't a prime topic of discussion:

Finally, we must draw on the strength of our values – for the challenges that we face may have changed, but the things that we believe in must not. That is why we must promote our values by living them at home – which is why I have prohibited torture and will close the prison at Guantanamo Bay. And we must make it clear to every man, woman and child around the world who lives under the dark cloud of tyranny that America will speak out on behalf of their human rights, and tend to the light of freedom, and justice, and opportunity, and respect for the dignity of all peoples. That is who we are. That is the moral source of America’s authority.

America is very selective on who they speak for, who they war for. We've ignored atrocities in the past, helped plenty of oppressive regimes, etc. At this moment we're supporting a possibly corrupt guy in Karzai, and have gotten into bed with Pakistan. Both may blowback on us in a decade, like Iraq and former Afghanistan did. Only recently was Saudi Arabia, the least democratic country in the ME, relegated from our biggest ally and military base. Our allies are chosen for expediency in furthering whatever current agendas we have, and we often chose an only slightly lesser evil, or even greater. So, not really buying this.

For unlike the great powers of old, we have not sought world domination. Our union was founded in resistance to oppression. We do not seek to occupy other nations. We will not claim another nation’s resources or target other peoples because their faith or ethnicity is different from ours. What we have fought for – and what we continue to fight for – is a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and access opportunity.

The US does seek and hold world hegemony, economically and militarily. It's sphere of influence is as large as many former world powers, it has many hundreds of bases around the world, global projection of force, and unparalleled political power. It doesn't personally occupy many nations, and doesn't annex any, but that's a rarity for all nations these days. It has and does attempt or succeed in coups however, putting US-friendly folks in power no matter how dirty they are.

The majority of US interference in world affairs is for its benefit. Perhaps some is for moral benefit or consideration of others, but it's too inconsistent to really claim that as a driving motivation. Obama may believe everything he says, but he's believing in an unreal idealism. The reality is that the US causes a lot of political unrest in the world, and has enabled, allied with, and put into power plenty of human-rights violaters.
 
Which terrible things are those, btw?

Oops. No, wait, ignore that. Surefire derail.

I won't respond to a reply to that on this thread. I'd rather keep on topic.

My apologies to the OP.
 
The reality is that the US causes a lot of political unrest in the world, and has enabled, allied with, and put into power plenty of human-rights violaters.

Indeed we have. But you know what they say about past performance. I see here an appeal to the better angels of our nature.

Pie in the sky? Probably. But without it, we don't shoot as high as we otherwise might.

I'm keeping a close eye on our response to Honduras.

It was interesting that the White House and the embassy were talking at cross-purposes on that one. Clearly, the embassy took the side of the CIA.
 
Good speach, as usual (IMO). I've always been sort of beside myself on war issues, wishing we as a nation could do more to free people from oppression. As an ideal, focusing on ourselves when we're so comparatively well off and letting others eat dirt and suffer doesn't rank very highly with me. But at the same time, it's true that America is somewhat of a wounded animal right now, and facing economic threats we've never experienced before in terms of global competition on the world market. While I'd like, in a perfect world, to see Iraq and Afghanistan put to bed properly regardless of the cost and time involved (because we should clean up after ourselves), I think he's made the case that nipping this all in the bud and refocusing is the best way to go.

I was particularly interested in a fact (one presumes) he mentions about how no plans were put before him that requested troop increases before 2010. After the near hysteria from the right and their media outlets about how Obama has been taking too long and ignoring McChrystal's pleas, I'm curious about the details here.
 
I was particularly interested in a fact (one presumes) he mentions about how no plans were put before him that requested troop increases before 2010. After the near hysteria from the right and their media outlets about how Obama has been taking too long and ignoring McChrystal's pleas, I'm curious about the details here.

I find that somewhat hard to believe since McChrystal said they only had 12 months to turn the tides in Afghanistan back when he first gave his assessment at the end of August.
 
Obama's a great orator but a lot of what he said tonight had me scratching my head.

He announced a surge of 30,000 troops while including a time-line for withdrawals! Setting time-lines is a bad idea in almost any war, but especially a counter-insurgency. He might as well have said "Hear that, Taliban? All you gotta do is wait us out for 18 months." And they will.

You can't fight counter-insurgency like that and if the US isn't going to fight to win then they shouldn't fight at all.

Obama also pretended that Al Qaeda and the Taliban are one and the same. Simply not true.

Al Qaeda is an extremist ideology representing Islamic fundamentalists from all over the world - one that doesn't need a "safe haven" or training camps in order to operate (a couple rooms in Baghdad, Madrid, Hamburg, London or Toronto does just fine).

The Taliban, meanwhile, are a LOCAL movement made up of Pashtu tribes, one that is concerned only with their own neighbourhood. Not a single Pashtu has staged a terror attack anywhere outside of Afghan/Pakistan.

Indeed, the Taliban insurgency at this point is essentially a tribal uprising by the Pashtu against a foreign army and the northern ethnic groups supporting it. But notice that Obama omitted any mention of how this is largely a local civil/ethnic war - the Pashtu Taliban vs. the Afghan government security forces based around the northern Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Hazarra. (Ironically, this is exactly where the USSR found itself in the 1980s - same enemies and same allies; only difference was that the US was on the rebelling Pashtus' side back then).

These factions were fighting a war before we arrived and they'll fight when we're gone.

As for tackling Afghan "corruption," give me a break. How exactly does Obama plan on doing this in a country where EVERYONE IN POWER is corrupt? The whole Karzai regime is corrupt from top-to-bottom. Obama simply isn't having an honest discussion about Afghanistan if the word "warlord" doesn't come up once in a 35 minute talk.

To compound this insanity, the new Afghan war plan calls for US/NATO forces to focus on securing the top 10 urban centers in the country as well as a few agricultural areas.

If this urban-based strategy sounds familiar, it's probably because it's exactly what the Soviets did!

The inevitable result is a few cities relatively secured (yet still under attack), while the other 95% of the country falls firmly under insurgent control. Afghans don't call Hamid Karzai "the Mayor of Kabul" for nothing.

The only way to win a counter-insurgency is

1) to live among the local people to gathering intel and build trust (which US forces did as part of the surge in Iraq) and

2) to "turn" the insurgency to your side via alliances or defections (which is how the US subdued Anbar province in Iraq and how the Russians crushed the insurgency in Chechnya).

While it's good to hear that the US supports negotiations with "moderate" Taliban, and is trying to repeat the success of the Iraqi "Sunni Awakening" movement by allying with Pashtu tribes, it's hard to see how that can suceed in the face of everything else.
 
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I'm usually not one of the President's biggest cheerleaders, but IMO it was a fine speech. He made a clear case for what our strategy and objectives will be. I also think he's making the best decision among the options on the table.

He's about to take a bashing from the left and the right. I hope he can prove the critics on both ends of the spectrum to be wrong.
 
Obama is going to draw some of the moderate GOP to his side and with the same stroke push away some of the more liberal Democrats... The partisan reaction will be interesting, it's got some funny backspin going on.

Setting time-lines is a bad idea in almost any war, but especially a counter-insurgency. He might as well have said "Hear that, Taliban? All you gotta do is wait us out for 18 months." And they will.

I'm sure the US will hang on in an "advisory" capacity much like we still are in Iraq even after the June 30th "withdraw". I think some of the lessons learned from Iraq can carry over quite well in Afghanistan. Enabling the Afghan military to defend it's own country and secure it's own future would be a great start.

The only way to win a counter-insurgency is

1) to live among the local people to gathering intel and build trust (which US forces did as part of the surge in Iraq) and

2) to "turn" the insurgency to your side via alliances or defections (which is how the US subdued Anbar province in Iraq and how the Russians crushed the insurgency in Chechnya).

Well put.

We simply paid them better than AQI and they folded quicker than wet sheet in a stiff wind. Those very turncoats are turning in the few remaining active insurgents left right and center and they know it. I can see this becoming a problem once we leave because most of the AQI that we have had the pleasure of actually meeting foresee the current Iraqi government collapsing in on itself and swift/brutal retributions met out to all those that cooperated with the MNF. That's actually been used to recruit members into AQI cells believing they and their families would be spared once the MNF leaves Iraq.

On top of that, we have problems with some of the local SOI. We have enabled them to become the new thugs of their neighborhoods giving them arms and training which they have turned around to commit acts of sectarian violence on their own.

The urban centers are too easy to control. It's the countryside where it gets hairy especially in a place like Afghanistan where so much of the population is rural (relative to Iraq) and isolated from it's national government.
 
A fine speech in my opinion.

Unfortunately Australia will not be increasing it's contribution to Afghanistan.
 
I find the progressives' criticism of the speech disappointing. On the one hand the mess that made the whole situation worse occurred because we funded/supported the fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan then just pulled out when the Soviets left. The Taliban took over after that. So how can just pulling out be the right answer this time?

I agree with Stephanie Miller's comment tonight after the speech, as a liberal I am against war in general but as a woman I am against the Taliban. There was a struggle to free the oppressed women in Afghanistan long before 911 and I for one have not forgotten that. The Taliban's treatment of women cannot be allowed to resume.


I'm willing to see if Obama is as intelligent as his speeches in dealing with this problem. If we spend as much on economic development of the country as we spend on the military intervention, then we can turn things around. If we just go in there and ignore the underlying reasons the Taliban are successful at recruiting, then indeed, nothing will change. I was hoping to hear Obama say he would support schools that rival the Madrassas which are a source of recruits for the Taliban. But he did not mention it.


Obama's description of what makes this country great and what America really stands for, reflects my view of the world and what I wish this country actually did stand for. Unfortunately for that part of the speech, I found it full of untruths. Claiming we've never taken other countries' natural resources for ourselves was a lie. We've done it over and over. The US and Britain literally split the MidEast regions' oil resources between themselves in the 50s and that is where a lot of 'blowback' is coming from to this day.


But if Obama goes forward with that idealistic philosophy, that Americans are like John Wayne's portrayal of us in the old war movies, then I'm OK with the speech even knowing it was not true about us in the past. Afterall, if Obama would have spoken the truth the conservatives would have had way more than a cow about it. We'd of never heard the end that it was a blame America speech.


I thought the speech was good. Now we just have to see if the actions taken are just as good.



On another note, Cheney is insane. I think he may really be off his nut. Very disgusting crap came from him over the last few weeks. He needs to admit he screwed up or shut up.
 
Obama's a great orator but a lot of what he said tonight had me scratching my head.

He announced a surge of 30,000 troops while including a time-line for withdrawals! Setting time-lines is a bad idea in almost any war, but especially a counter-insurgency. He might as well have said "Hear that, Taliban? All you gotta do is wait us out for 18 months." And they will.

You can't fight counter-insurgency like that and if the US isn't going to fight to win then they shouldn't fight at all.


I caught this bit of his speech during my lunch break, and all I could think was how incredibly, unforgivably stupid he was being.

Whether we should continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is matter of debate. But one thing we should never, ever do, is tell the enemy that we're going to stop fighting by a particular date, while the war is still underway. I am dumbfounded that we have a President who doesn't know better than this—who cannot clearly see what the consequences will be of this error.

We've just given the enemy what they need to beat us. They just need to lay low and conserve their resources, until we reach the designated pullout date. After that date, when we are no longer there to oppose them, they'll have all the resources that they've saved up to begin a renewed fight against the allied government that we leave behind.

Stupid, stupid, stupid!
 

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