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Premonition?

That's fine, mate.

It's when it's the sex does that, you start to worry!

When falling asleep during sex, it's very important to time the faked orgasm properly:

RIGHT:

You: OH GOD! OH GOD!
You: ZZZZzzzzz....

WRONG:

You: ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz....
Significant other: Wake up, dammit!
You: OH GOD! OH GOD!
 
When falling asleep during sex, it's very important to time the faked orgasm properly:

RIGHT:

You: OH GOD! OH GOD!
You: ZZZZzzzzz....

WRONG:

You: ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz....
Significant other: Wake up, dammit!
You: OH GOD! OH GOD!


Classic!


 
There was an excellent, and well-documented, case of a man dreaming the Melbourne Cup trifecta (1st, 2nd, 3rd, in order) for the 2002 running. He advised several friends and neighbours, who all collected 6 grand or so.

I can't find links, but I'll keep looking. It was reported in papers here extensively, so some of the Aussies may recall it? Mooch/Zep? The year Damien Oliver rode the winner a week after his brother had been killed.

There are stories every year about people dreaming up the winner - 20 million people dreaming about it, one of 'em probably hits it.
I'm glad you pointed out the last bit. How many people dream the trifecta *incorrectly*?

We never get to hear THAT story because it's dull, and it's exactly how all this woo stuff keeps proliferating - not remembering the misses.

Coincidentally, my mate picked, bet on and won a tidy sum on a trifecta in the 2006 Melbourne Cup. I don't believe he got it from a dream, though...
 
Neither this response nor any other has yet addressed my question: "Assuming that there is something supernatural about premonitions, how would that ever be proven to your satisfaction?

First and most important condition: It must be repeatable.
Second: It must be exact in every detail and describing a unique event
Third: It must not be an extrapolation of the foreseers present situation (I am talking here especially about "binary" situation development like passing or failing an examination, getting or not getting a job etc.)

An example for an acceptable proof would be, if a person is able to repeatedly foresee the outcome of lottery or the next number in roulette. (But if such a person would exist it should be one of the richest in the world..)
 
Your point has some validity, but it's generally not possible to declare precisely what the dream is predicting. If David Booth had known every detail regarding AA Flight 191, presumably he would have telephoned American Airlines at O'Hare Airport on May 25, 1979 and told them that the number one engine was going to fall off on takeoff.


Why does a premonition by a given person have to be repeatable for it to be considered valid? It may be that Booth, Lincoln, and many others have had only one premonitory dream in their lives, but if those dreams are documented in advance, why should they be discounted?

Because that is the only possibility to distinguish it from pure chance. Statistics is not applicable to non repeatable things, which, as a sidenote, makes all the telepathy "proofs" of Rhine et al meaningless
 
First and most important condition: It must be repeatable.

The premonition of a unique event must be repeatable? Brilliant logic.

Second: It must be exact in every detail and describing a unique event

By the same criterion, because your memories are not accurate, nothing that you remember actually happened? Hmm...

An example for an acceptable proof would be, if a person is able to repeatedly foresee the outcome of lottery or the next number in roulette.

Why on earth would repetition be necessary to provide proof? We are not talking about the scientific method here. Repetition simply lowers the liklihood of chance being the case. It has nothing to do with proof. Acceptance will always be a subjective judgement involving common sense.

(BTW - for those who requested scanned notes of my dream, I haven't forgotten, I'm just lazy; I'll post them soon).
 
First and most important condition: It must be repeatable.

What must be repeatable? The event that was foreseen? Or the ability to foresee? Because neither of those seem to be reasonable criteria. I think it would be almost impossible to fulfill your second and third criteria without repetition, but I don't otherwise see justification for this requirement.

Second: It must be exact in every detail and describing a unique event

This is the part that makes most testimony inadequate - rarely is the available information detailed enough to make a determination. And this is one way repeatability is useful. A repeatable event can be subject to more thorough investigation (one isn't caught off guard).

Third: It must not be an extrapolation of the foreseers present situation (I am talking here especially about "binary" situation development like passing or failing an examination, getting or not getting a job etc.)

I think this part speaks to the improbability factor - it should be highly improbable that this vision would occur in the absence of premonition.

An example for an acceptable proof would be, if a person is able to repeatedly foresee the outcome of lottery or the next number in roulette. (But if such a person would exist it should be one of the richest in the world..)

You are simply talking about various levels of improbability. A single correct vision of the outcome of a specific lottery is so improbable as to be suggestive (but not proof) by itself. Foreseeing the next number in roulette would need to occur repeatedly to acheive the same level of improbability.

One can determine the probability related to the premonition of a unique event. The trick is to appropriately model the context - i.e. select the relevant numerator/denominator.

Linda
 
Linda: What must be repeatable? The event that was foreseen? Or the ability to foresee? Because neither of those seem to be reasonable criteria. I think it would be almost impossible to fulfill your second and third criteria without repetition, but I don't otherwise see justification for this requirement.

The ability to foresee of course.
Just think about it: Somebody dreams over years every night. Sometimes he has nightmares. There is never a relationship between his dreams and a real even. And then once one of these nightmares has some common details with a real catastrophe (which may be next day or four weeks later). Foreseeing?
There are 6 billion people in the world, and most of them are dreaming every night, and one (or five or twohundred) dream something which has some similarity to a real catastophic event.

Take the Zener experiments as an example. A candidate scores just average and the experimentators are close to give up. But suddenly they find out, that in some runs the candidate guessed the _next_ card significantly well, on other runs it is the one past next and in others the previous. Come on - just flipping coins and mining the results will give you similar results.


Linda: This is the part that makes most testimony inadequate - rarely is the available information detailed enough to make a determination. And this is one way repeatability is useful. A repeatable event can be subject to more thorough investigation (one isn't caught off guard).

This inadequate testimonies are the next problem.
Let me give an example (clearvoyance, not foreseeing):
The german (Mannheim) "medium" Artur Orlop tried to describe the village where a to him unknown Student (Geir Vilhlalmsson) lived. Orlop pruduced a sketchy drawing of the village and added some comments. His results could to about 50% be (with very good will) matched with the real village. Alone within a distance of 50 miles from my home there are two villages with more matches. So what.
Somewhere in the web there is also a detailed description of a clearvoyant describing the surface of Jupiter. It was absolutely ridiculous wrong (30000 ft high mountains beyond other stupidity), and confronted with that fact the clearvoyant claimed he might have seen another planet. ROTFL, this one brought me up for a whole day :)

Linda: I think this part speaks to the improbability factor - it should be highly improbable that this vision would occur in the absence of premonition.

No. In most cases a person trying to guess the next roulétte number will be wrong - and forget it. One time he will guess right - and remember it forever. Don't stumble into the very common trap of probability. Probability does _not_ tell you anything about what will happen next. No matter how improbable something is - that it happens once does tell us absolutely nothing. Not even if it happens twice or several times. if it is not repeatable statistics is out. Period.

Linda: You are simply talking about various levels of improbability. A single correct vision of the outcome of a specific lottery is so improbable as to be suggestive (but not proof) by itself. Foreseeing the next number in roulette would need to occur repeatedly to acheive the same level of improbability.

Linda: One can determine the probability related to the premonition of a unique event. The trick is to appropriately model the context - i.e. select the relevant numerator/denominator.

That is data mining. Forget it.
 
The premonition of a unique event must be repeatable? Brilliant logic.

Foreseeing must be repeatable, not a unique case of course.

By the same criterion, because your memories are not accurate, nothing that you remember actually happened? Hmm...

With vague descriptions that will remotely match hundreds of future events we can create novels. If the foreseeing does not match a unique event beyond all reasonable doubts it is worthless. And there is a difference between inaccurate memory and vagueness.

Why on earth would repetition be necessary to provide proof? We are not talking about the scientific method here. Repetition simply lowers the liklihood of chance being the case. It has nothing to do with proof. Acceptance will always be a subjective judgement involving common sense.

Repetition? Just to distinguish between coincindence and real foreseeing abilities.

And the question was: What criteria must be met to make _me_ accept foreseeing as a fact. :)

(BTW - for those who requested scanned notes of my dream, I haven't forgotten, I'm just lazy; I'll post them soon).
 
According to -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Hill_Lamon --
"Lincoln, of course, was a highly controversial figure, and many people wanted him dead. He was also superstitious, and had other odd dreams throughout his time in the White House. Some contend, therefore, that Lincoln's assassination dream cannot be taken as evidence of prophetic dreams. However, there were eerie similarities between his dream and what actually transpired shortly thereafter, including the fact that Lincoln's body lay in state in the East Room. Further, the fact that Lincoln downplayed to Lamon the significance of the dream does not mean that Lincoln was not deeply troubled by it. His assertion that 'it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed' was illogical, considering that his dream was about the President being assassinated, and he—not some other fellow—was the President."

You keep quoting things that DO NOT support your assertion that Lincoln dreamt of his assassination.

He dreamt of his funeral, not his assassination. The difference is huge. The article lists no specifics at all about how he died, just that he had and that there was some sort of funeral. Maybe the way he dreamed it was known to him to be the way such a funeral would be handled? Maybe he had attended a similar service at the white house at some time in the past? Ceremonies are certainly more likely to be dreamt about and contain some sort of details which will match actual ceremonies in the future.

Your statement that Lincoln dreamt of his assassination leads one to think he dreamt about being shot while at a play. Nothing like that is documented as far as I can tell.
 
It's been a week since RE posted. He may be off to start another tale elsewhere since his vase and crash stories didn't give him the gasps of astonishment he needs.
 
Linda: What must be repeatable? The event that was foreseen? Or the ability to foresee? Because neither of those seem to be reasonable criteria. I think it would be almost impossible to fulfill your second and third criteria without repetition, but I don't otherwise see justification for this requirement.

The ability to foresee of course.
Just think about it: Somebody dreams over years every night. Sometimes he has nightmares. There is never a relationship between his dreams and a real even. And then once one of these nightmares has some common details with a real catastrophe (which may be next day or four weeks later). Foreseeing?
There are 6 billion people in the world, and most of them are dreaming every night, and one (or five or twohundred) dream something which has some similarity to a real catastophic event.

So repeatability doesn't relate to the experience or the individual, but to the effect.

Take the Zener experiments as an example. A candidate scores just average and the experimentators are close to give up. But suddenly they find out, that in some runs the candidate guessed the _next_ card significantly well, on other runs it is the one past next and in others the previous. Come on - just flipping coins and mining the results will give you similar results.

I was trying to relate your criteria to what was being talked about in this thread - stories of foreseeing an event, either through dreams or visions, with the claim that some are eerily accurate. I was suggesting that individual stories could be evaluated as to whether they serve as adequate examples.

Linda: This is the part that makes most testimony inadequate - rarely is the available information detailed enough to make a determination. And this is one way repeatability is useful. A repeatable event can be subject to more thorough investigation (one isn't caught off guard).

This inadequate testimonies are the next problem.
Let me give an example (clearvoyance, not foreseeing):
The german (Mannheim) "medium" Artur Orlop tried to describe the village where a to him unknown Student (Geir Vilhlalmsson) lived. Orlop pruduced a sketchy drawing of the village and added some comments. His results could to about 50% be (with very good will) matched with the real village. Alone within a distance of 50 miles from my home there are two villages with more matches. So what.
Somewhere in the web there is also a detailed description of a clearvoyant describing the surface of Jupiter. It was absolutely ridiculous wrong (30000 ft high mountains beyond other stupidity), and confronted with that fact the clearvoyant claimed he might have seen another planet. ROTFL, this one brought me up for a whole day :)

The testimony in those cases seems adequate. Enough information was given to assess that there wasn't anything particularly remarkable about the results.

Linda: I think this part speaks to the improbability factor - it should be highly improbable that this vision would occur in the absence of premonition.

No. In most cases a person trying to guess the next roulétte number will be wrong - and forget it. One time he will guess right - and remember it forever.

But that does not serve as an example of a highly improbable event, regardless of how the naive individual chooses to present it. I was speaking of events that actually are highly improbable.

Don't stumble into the very common trap of probability. Probability does _not_ tell you anything about what will happen next. No matter how improbable something is - that it happens once does tell us absolutely nothing. Not even if it happens twice or several times. if it is not repeatable statistics is out. Period.

You are talking about two different things. One is a determination of the probability of an event happening, and the other is what conclusions can be drawn when something improbable happens. I think your use of the term "statistics" is meant to refer to the latter. And I wasn't really speaking to that (yet), as I have noticed that stories that can be subject to adequate evaluation turn out not to be particularly improbable (i.e. one does not even need to proceed to the next step of deciding what conclusions can be drawn).

Linda: You are simply talking about various levels of improbability. A single correct vision of the outcome of a specific lottery is so improbable as to be suggestive (but not proof) by itself. Foreseeing the next number in roulette would need to occur repeatedly to acheive the same level of improbability.

Linda: One can determine the probability related to the premonition of a unique event. The trick is to appropriately model the context - i.e. select the relevant numerator/denominator.

That is data mining. Forget it.

You did not understand what I meant. If the context is data mining, then your probability determination takes that into account. Using your roulette wheel example...an individual may provide a story of guessing the exact number correctly four times in a row, as an example of foreseeing. The naive probability of that happening is aprox. 1 in 2,000,000. However, once you appropriately model the context - any indvidual that plays roulette will remember four correct guesses in a row (that particular individual was not selected a priori), there are thousands of roulette tables playing hundreds of games every day some of which include players that play individual numbers rather than colours or the other categories, so over the course of a year there will be millions of opportunties for someone to correctly guess four in a row - it turns out that the probability is more like 1 in 3 for this event. That is, it does not serve as an example of an event that would be highly improbable in the absence of premonitions.

Dreaming of the winning lottery numbers for a specific lottery drawing would be different, because I think dreams that specific are rare, first of all.

Linda
 
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Foreseeing must be repeatable, not a unique case of course.

But why? If a sportsman runs a 9.5s 100m, do we demand he does it 10 times in a row as proof? Because a phenomenon cannot be produced at will does not invalidate it.

With vague descriptions that will remotely match hundreds of future events we can create novels. If the foreseeing does not match a unique event beyond all reasonable doubts it is worthless.

Now see, you changed your position here. You have now included "reasonable doubt", and I agree with you. Before, you said "every detail must be exact", which is an unreasonable expectation bearing in mind human fallibility and the inherent imprecise nature of communication.

Repetition? Just to distinguish between coincindence and real foreseeing abilities.

As I said, I don't agree it is valid or reasonable to expect demonstration of repetition in such cases.

And the question was: What criteria must be met to make _me_ accept foreseeing as a fact.

OK, but I think you'll find your criteria will simply bring you to a conclusion that I and almost every right-thinking person has already reached; that people cannot predict the future at will.
 
So repeatability doesn't relate to the experience or the individual, but to the effect.

I was trying to relate your criteria to what was being talked about in this thread - stories of foreseeing an event, either through dreams or visions, with the claim that some are eerily accurate. I was suggesting that individual stories could be evaluated as to whether they serve as adequate examples.

I see. Then we were talking about different things. my fault.

The testimony in those cases seems adequate. Enough information was given to assess that there wasn't anything particularly remarkable about the results.

But that does not serve as an example of a highly improbable event, regardless of how the naive individual chooses to present it. I was speaking of events that actually are highly improbable.

Of course not. I just always worry that exactly such stories are presented as at least "strong hint". This goes from precognition over clearvoyance to OOB, NDE et al. I did not see an example of a really higly improbable case yet (taking simple explanations into consideration. I had several experiences of this kind myself, and knowig my own memory and experience I alsways found a simple and pretty convincing natural explanation).

You are talking about two different things. One is a determination of the probability of an event happening, and the other is what conclusions can be drawn when something improbable happens. I think your use of the term "statistics" is meant to refer to the latter. And I wasn't really speaking to that (yet), as I have noticed that stories that can be subject to adequate evaluation turn out not to be particularly improbable (i.e. one does not even need to proceed to the next step of deciding what conclusions can be drawn).

Ah, I see.

You did not understand what I meant. If the context is data mining, then your probability determination takes that into account. Using your roulette wheel example...an individual may provide a story of guessing the exact number correctly four times in a row, as an example of foreseeing. The naive probability of that happening is aprox. 1 in 2,000,000. However, once you appropriately model the context - any indvidual that plays roulette will remember four correct guesses in a row (that particular individual was not selected a priori), there are thousands of roulette tables playing hundreds of games every day some of which include players that play individual numbers rather than colours or the other categories, so over the course of a year there will be millions of opportunties for someone to correctly guess four in a row - it turns out that the probability is more like 1 in 3 for this event. That is, it does not serve as an example of an event that would be highly improbable in the absence of premonitions.

Dreaming of the winning lottery numbers for a specific lottery drawing would be different, because I think dreams that specific are rare, first of all.

You are right, I misunderstood you in this. If you consider that as a hint, that further investigation could make sense I agree. I am searching for a proof of such phenomenons since decades. But i'd not accept such as a proof.

 
But why? If a sportsman runs a 9.5s 100m, do we demand he does it 10 times in a row as proof? Because a phenomenon cannot be produced at will does not invalidate it.

Now see, you changed your position here. You have now included "reasonable doubt", and I agree with you. Before, you said "every detail must be exact", which is an unreasonable expectation bearing in mind human fallibility and the inherent imprecise nature of communication.

Yes, I was not precise enough, exact was not the right word. Somebody foreseeing a plane crash and being in error about the type of the aircraft or whether it lost it's left or right engine would not be a problem. But foreseeing a crash somewhere in the next four weeks for some vague reason would be.
Iow. the dream (or whatever) must be connected to a uniquely identifiable event and there must not be other events which match to the same degree within the time span the dream covers. If you for example have a very detailed dream about an air disaster, including every detail like number of fatalities, type of aircraft, location etc. but no time span and the location is an airport or area known as dangerous (Hong Kong springs into mind - monsoon season) then you can be pretty sure there will be an accident sometimes which matches the dream quite well. Think of a person who has as a passenger approached Hong Kong several times under heavy mosoon thunderstorm conditions and now dreams about a crash there. He will probably dream a lot of very convincing details (air desasters often follow a limited number of patterns). And a crash at HA will pretty likely happen sometimes and the details are not unlikely to be similar to the dream.

As I said, I don't agree it is valid or reasonable to expect demonstration of repetition in such cases.

Yor sentence below clears things up. I was always talking about precognition "at will". But if a precognition mechanism exists, don't you think there could be a person who can do it at will (or gets the information in his dreams or meditation reliably). There have been a lot of experiments trying to proof recognition at will, but to date none of the results were convincing because of data minig (Rhine) and improper use of statistics (can't repeat, forget statistics)

OK, but I think you'll find your criteria will simply bring you to a conclusion that I and almost every right-thinking person has already reached; that people cannot predict the future at will.

Fully agreed :)
 
ETA: The original article was reported to have been from a 1980 era Playboy.
I just purchased that Playboy on a Yahoo auction -- it's the March 1980 edition (with Bo Derek on the cover). The article is titled "Bad Dreams in the Future Tense" by Walter L. Lowe. According to the article, on the Tuesday prior to the American Airlines crash (Tuesday was May 22, 1979 and the crash occurred on Friday, the 25th), David Booth "called the local office of American Airlines to tell them about his dreams, but no one was available to listen. Then he called the FAA at the Greater Cincinnati Airport and managed to get through to Ray Pinkerton, the assistant manager for airway facilities. Pinkerton listened and took notes that would later verify Booth's account of the dreams . . . [Pinkerton] and his assistant, supervisory electronics technician Paul Williams . . . called the regional FAA office in Atlanta that afternoon and reported all the details of the dream to Jack Barker, public-affairs officer."
 
I just purchased that Playboy on a Yahoo auction -- it's the March 1980 edition (with Bo Derek on the cover). The article is titled "Bad Dreams in the Future Tense" by Walter L. Lowe. According to the article, on the Tuesday prior to the American Airlines crash (Tuesday was May 22, 1979 and the crash occurred on Friday, the 25th), David Booth "called the local office of American Airlines to tell them about his dreams, but no one was available to listen. Then he called the FAA at the Greater Cincinnati Airport and managed to get through to Ray Pinkerton, the assistant manager for airway facilities. Pinkerton listened and took notes that would later verify Booth's account of the dreams . . . [Pinkerton] and his assistant, supervisory electronics technician Paul Williams . . . called the regional FAA office in Atlanta that afternoon and reported all the details of the dream to Jack Barker, public-affairs officer."

Perhaps you missed this part of Dan O.'s post :
"It sounded like any of a hundred dreams I've heard reported in my 25
years in the aviation business," Barker says. "People call in with them
all the time, but what could we do? We didn't have a date, we didn't
have a time, we didn't have a city. What could we do?" Well, frankly,
he couldn't have done anything. So he didn't."

With enough reported premonitions you are eventually going to get a hit. I don't see anything remarkable in Booth's predictions except the coincidence of the crash so soon after he started obsessing on this dream may have prevented him from going totally bonkers.

It's just like psychics and police. If enough people call in, someone is bound to get something fairly close. Notice that even though it says "Pinkerton listened and took notes that would later verify Booth's account of the dreams ", it also says there was no date, time or location. So not only is it very probable that someone will eventually get a hit, this wasn't even a very good one. In fact, it boils down to "a plane will crash somewhere at some time". Wow! I'd never have come up with that.
 
It's just like psychics and police. If enough people call in, someone is bound to get something fairly close. Notice that even though it says "Pinkerton listened and took notes that would later verify Booth's account of the dreams ", it also says there was no date, time or location. So not only is it very probable that someone will eventually get a hit, this wasn't even a very good one. In fact, it boils down to "a plane will crash somewhere at some time". Wow! I'd never have come up with that.
According to the Playboy article: "David Booth woke up crying on the night of May 24, 1979. He'd just had the same bad dream for the tenth night in a row . . . 'I was standing beside this one-story building . . . and now I'm looking away from the corner of the building and I'm looking out over a field and there's, like, a line of trees going down and I look up in the air and there's an American Airlines jet, a great big thing, and the first thing that strikes me -- that always struck me -- was that it just wasn't making the noise it should be for being that close, you know? Then it starts to bank off to the right. And the left wing goes up in the air and it's getting very slow. It wasn't like slow motion. It was just going slow, and then it just turned on its back and went straight down into the ground and exploded' . . ."

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191: "American Airlines Flight 191, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10 aircraft, crashed on May 25, 1979, killing all 271 on board and two on the ground. Flight 191 was the deadliest airplane accident on U.S. soil, its death toll exceeded only by the deliberate crashes of American Airlines Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 in the September 11, 2001 attacks. The flight originated from O'Hare International Airport in Chicago, Illinois and was destined for Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California . . . Shortly before the takeoff rotation began, with 6,000 feet of runway covered, tower controllers witnessed the number one engine (left wing) separate from the aircraft and fly up and over the wing to crash onto the runway. The aircraft continued in a normal climb momentarily to around 350 feet (AGL), as fuel and leaking hydraulic fluid spewed in a vapor trail behind the plane . . . As the hydraulic fluid bled away, the slats retracted on the left wing, raising that wing's stall speed from 124 knots to around 160 knots, resulting in a significant loss of lift. As the pilots slowed the aircraft the left wing stalled, and with the right wing still providing lift the aircraft quickly entered an uncontrollable 112-degree left bank and pitched nose-down from around 325 feet, slamming into an open field approximately 4,600 ft from the end of the runway northwest of the airport at 15:04 CDT after about 31 seconds in the air. The plane struck an abandoned hangar, but the site was mostly an empty field north of Touhy Ave and just east of a mobile home park (map). With a full load of fuel, the crash generated a huge fireball causing a plume of smoke so large it could be seen from the Downtown Chicago Loop. The aircraft disintegrated and burned, and all 271 people on board were killed during the impact and explosion. In addition some wreckage was thrown into a nearby mobile home park killing two residents and seriously injuring two others."

Back to the Playboy account: "Because of it thorough documentation, Booth's extraordinary dream was recounted in nearly every newspaper in the country. A series of photographs of the crash, taken by fantastic coincidence, showed the DC-10 descend, roll over, then disappear behind some buildings for only a moment. Then the fireball. Not every detail of Booth's dream matched the facts -- for instance, he saw the plane bank to the right, whereas flight 191 banked to the left. But no one, not even the FAA, questions the uncanny similarity between major details of Booth's vision and the actual crash."
 
Anyone who expects dreams to be logical has apparently never experienced one first-hand.

Not really pertinent, I suppose, but I had a dream the other night that "God" was zapping me with painful electric charges because I was an atheist.
 
A GFI on that electric blanket would be a wise investment. :)


In Booth's vision, the plane was moving slow and silent. Like a plane that had lost all power and stalled. The real plane however had not lost all power but was still under power in the remaining engine (cutting power might have actually saved the plane though).

Booth was obviously envisioning what would happen if the engines stalled on takeoff. Perhaps this vision was triggered by seeing or hearing news of an aborted takeoff.

If it wasn't for his second premonition coming true, I wouldn't even talk about David Booth.
 

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