Premonition?

[Rodney]

If there were any verifiable truth to this (Booth's) story, don't you think it would have been keenly documented?

I'm still trying to determine how well the story was documented.

And, assuming he had these dreams, what makes anyone think they were in relation to "AA Flight 191"? Did he dream this actual detail?
M.

According to Wikipedia: "In 1979, he had a series of recurring premonitory dreams that tormented him for ten consecutive nights. He saw a plane take off from an airport, bank steeply and then crash. On 22 May he called the FAA at Greater Cincinnati International Airport, American Airlines, and a psychiatrist at University of Cincinnati. The authorities took him seriously -- the FAA had guessed from Booth's description that the plane was a DC-10 -- but they could do nothing about it.[citation needed] The accident occurred three days after Booth's dreams in almost exactly the way Booth envisioned."

 

[Rodney]

As a president he probably upheld the idea that he was more prone to assassination than the average person, couple that with the fact that threatening events are very common in dreams (and become even more frequent due to threatening experiences/environment) it doesn't seem unlikely that he had had previous dreams of assassinations/assassins. That is still not evidence of course, but it might not be as far-fetched as you seem to think.

So why didn't Lamon (or anyone else, for that matter) mention those other dreams?

 

[Oualawouzou]

So why didn't Lamon (or anyone else, for that matter) mention those other dreams?

My wife and I frequently share what dreams we've had, but I'd be hard pressed to recall one any of us has had recently. 99.9% of time, dreams are a non-event. Sharing them are non-stories, in the same bag as any small talk you share with colleagues on a given work day. If I dream about a car crash, then I get in a car crash, you bet I'll remember that dream. If I dream about a car crash, a week or two goes by, then I get in a car crash, nobody will remember about it, including me.

 

[Rodney]

My wife and I frequently share what dreams we've had, but I'd be hard pressed to recall one any of us has had recently. 99.9% of time, dreams are a non-event. Sharing them are non-stories, in the same bag as any small talk you share with colleagues on a given work day. If I dream about a car crash, then I get in a car crash, you bet I'll remember that dream. If I dream about a car crash, a week or two goes by, then I get in a car crash, nobody will remember about it, including me.

Lincoln may well have shared many dreams with his wife and then forgot about them, but this one he shared with his bodyguard.

 

[Dan O.]

Documentation created after the fact in any premonition case is worthless because all you will have is documentation of the successes and none of the failures.

"It sounded like any of a hundred dreams I've heard reported in my 25
years in the aviation business," Barker says. "People call in with them
all the time, but what could we do? We didn't have a date, we didn't
have a time, we didn't have a city. What could we do?" Well, frankly,
he couldn't have done anything. So he didn't."

With enough reported premonitions you are eventually going to get a hit. I don't see anything remarkable in Booth's predictions except the coincidence of the crash so soon after he started obsessing on this dream may have prevented him from going totally bonkers.

And when he finally got to sleep that night, David Booth did not dream.

ETA: The original article was reported to have been from a 1980 era Playboy.

 

[Oualawouzou]

Lincoln may well have shared many dreams with his wife and then forgot about them, but this one he shared with his bodyguard.

Allegedly, yeah. Feel free to substitute "my wife" for any other person in the explanation I provided.

 

[Mangafranga]

Just a note that a cue of the impending danger does not have to come from the car itself. It could come from the actions of other cars and persons in the area, and this intersection was apparently a busy intersection.

While that is certainly a consideration is most cases, my view was blocked by a brick-walled building (which if I claimed to see through, well - 'nuff said) and at the time, the other car must also have been several hundred feet from the BUSY intersection. In other words there were dozens of cars ahead of the speeder.

Not that I actually favor this explanation (does there need to be an explanation at all?) I think as long as unconscious cues are mentioned that this possibility is an interesting one to mention explicitly.

 

[Rodney]

Allegedly, yeah. Feel free to substitute "my wife" for any other person in the explanation I provided.

When you say "allegedly", are you questioning whether Lincoln actually related this dream to Lamon? If Lamon made up the story, why would he go on to recount Lincoln telling him that the victim in Lincoln's dream was someone other than Lincoln? If Lamon had been going for dramatic effect, it would have made more sense for him to state that Lincoln told him that Lincoln knew he was going to be assassinated and that no one, including Lamon, could stop it.

 

[Oualawouzou]

I say "allegedly", because it's way too easy to put words into a dead person's mouth. As for Lamon's motives if he was lying, I have no clue.

Not that either this nor "that was his bodyguard, not his wife" have anything to do with the argument, but waddyawant.

 

[chillzero]

When you say "allegedly", are you questioning whether Lincoln actually related this dream to Lamon? If Lamon made up the story, why would he go on to recount Lincoln telling him that the victim in Lincoln's dream was someone other than Lincoln? If Lamon had been going for dramatic effect, it would have made more sense for him to state that Lincoln told him that Lincoln knew he was going to be assassinated and that no one, including Lamon, could stop it.

You keep talking as if the following has not been pointed out sevreal times:

You also failed to note that Lincoln did not dream his assassination, he had a dream about visiting his own funeral. No specifics as to how he was killed were related. Also of note is that it wasn't Lincoln himself who documented his own dream, it was related through his bodyguard. Also of note is that Lincoln beleived that it was not him, but someone else who was being buried in the dream, from WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Hill_Lamon):

It is worth noting that, according to Lamon, Lincoln didn't believe the dream was of his own death:

Once the President alluded to this terrible dream with some show of playful humor. "Hill," said he, "your apprehension of harm to me from some hidden enemy is downright foolishness. For a long time you have been trying to keep somebody—the Lord knows who—from killing me. Don't you see how it will turn out? In this dream it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed. It seems that this ghostly assassin tried his hand on some one else." (Lamon 1895, 116-117)

Lincoln did not predict his own assassination.

 

[Rodney]

Lincoln did not predict his own assassination.

According to -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Hill_Lamon --
"Lincoln, of course, was a highly controversial figure, and many people wanted him dead. He was also superstitious, and had other odd dreams throughout his time in the White House. Some contend, therefore, that Lincoln's assassination dream cannot be taken as evidence of prophetic dreams. However, there were eerie similarities between his dream and what actually transpired shortly thereafter, including the fact that Lincoln's body lay in state in the East Room. Further, the fact that Lincoln downplayed to Lamon the significance of the dream does not mean that Lincoln was not deeply troubled by it. His assertion that 'it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed' was illogical, considering that his dream was about the President being assassinated, and he—not some other fellow—was the President."

 

[The Atheist]

Lincoln did not predict his own assassination.

Mark Twain apparently predicted his own death.

 

[The Atheist]

There was an excellent, and well-documented, case of a man dreaming the Melbourne Cup trifecta (1st, 2nd, 3rd, in order) for the 2002 running. He advised several friends and neighbours, who all collected 6 grand or so.

I can't find links, but I'll keep looking. It was reported in papers here extensively, so some of the Aussies may recall it? Mooch/Zep? The year Damien Oliver rode the winner a week after his brother had been killed.

There are stories every year about people dreaming up the winner - 20 million people dreaming about it, one of 'em probably hits it.

 

[Moochie]

There was an excellent, and well-documented, case of a man dreaming the Melbourne Cup trifecta (1st, 2nd, 3rd, in order) for the 2002 running. He advised several friends and neighbours, who all collected 6 grand or so.

I can't find links, but I'll keep looking. It was reported in papers here extensively, so some of the Aussies may recall it? Mooch/Zep? The year Damien Oliver rode the winner a week after his brother had been killed.

There are stories every year about people dreaming up the winner - 20 million people dreaming about it, one of 'em probably hits it.

Nah, can't recall that, TA.

My dreams are so boring, I fall asleep.

M.

 

[Dan O.]

If anyone wanted to study prediction statistics, there is an excellent source of data in the lotteries. By comparing the results of Quick-Pick players with players that pick their own numbers, you could determine what effect (if any) superstitions and numerology may have in winning the pot.

 

[The Atheist]

If anyone wanted to study prediction statistics, there is an excellent source of data in the lotteries. By comparing the results of Quick-Pick players with players that pick their own numbers, you could determine what effect (if any) superstitions and numerology may have in winning the pot.

That's actually a good point.

Bet I know the answer, too. I'd like to see these stats:

# picked by psychic
# picked by astrology
# picked by player
# picked by computer

...and the relative winning percentages. As always, it will depend on the honesty of participants. I suspect a lot of "psychobabble" players will admit to wins but not losses.

 

[The Atheist]

Nah, can't recall that, TA.

My dreams are so boring, I fall asleep.

M.

That's fine, mate.

It's when it's the sex does that, you start to worry!

 

[chillzero]

His assertion that 'it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed' was illogical, considering that his dream was about the President being assassinated, and he—not some other fellow—was the President."

I've already answered why this was perfectly logical.

 

[aggle-rithm]

"....snip...His assertion that 'it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed' was illogical, considering that his dream was about the President being assassinated, and he—not some other fellow—was the President."

Anyone who expects dreams to be logical has apparently never experienced one first-hand.

 

[Moochie]

That's fine, mate.

It's when it's the sex does that, you start to worry!

Sex? What's that? More woo BS?

M.