• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Premonition?

Point number two is that when these "events" occur there is some type of feeling associated with them that i cannot possibly describe but which is definitely of a qualitative flavour that is not what i would call "normal".

I invite anyone to offer me explanations for these things.

The feeling is caused by your predisposition to beleive in the paranormal. When you have a dream that you remember, which is realistic and could possibly come true - the idea of it gets you excited and your brain releases endorphines which give you this feeling. If the dream comes true to any degree, you connect anything that matches and discard anything that does not, and you get excited again - brain releases more endorphines.

Please keep in mind that feelings of euphoria and even feelings that subjects call 'spiritual' can be induced with chemicals.

Now tell me what is more likely - that there is a static future, which a human brain is occasionally able to see with accuracy that creates magic feelings in you?

Or that human brains naturally imagine and dream things, some of which are possible to occur in the future, some of which are even LIKELY to occur in the future - and that when, by chance, something you imagine or dream comes true your brain releases chemicals that make you feel good?
 
Now tell me what is more likely - that there is a static future, which a human brain is occasionally able to see with accuracy that creates magic feelings in you?

Or that human brains naturally imagine and dream things, some of which are possible to occur in the future, some of which are even LIKELY to occur in the future - and that when, by chance, something you imagine or dream comes true your brain releases chemicals that make you feel good?

I can't fault your logic and I fully agree. However, see what you think of this - a personal account. Of course, I'm just a name on a forum, so I accept the criticism that I'm lying, or critically mistaken, can validly be levelled at me. The event happened approximately 12 years ago. I never actually recorded the date, unfortunately, so that approximation will have to suffice.

First off, I admit I'm a prolific dreamer and have kept a dream diary (off and on) for over 20 years. Often I'll make notes immediately on waking, then write up the dream later in the day or week. In this particular instance I made notes immediatley I awoke and wrote up the dream that night. Unfortunately, whilst I still have my notes - and a good memory of the dream / event - I've lost the notebook where I wrote up the "polished" version.

This is what I dreamed: I was driving to work, the normal route, and on rounding a corner onto a straight section of road I encountered a tailback of cars. The cars were queued up to the brow of the hill and beyond. I thought this was odd, as I had never before encountered a queue at that point. I began to slow down, trying to see what the problem was up ahead, when I noticed a man running towards me down the grass verge. All I remember of him is that he was dressed smartly. Before I could react, the man suddenly lurched in front of my car. I slammed on my brakes but I hit him and he rolled over the bonnet of the car. I had the impression he then ran off, but didn't see. I woke up.

Before I arose I scribbled some notes about this dream. I wrote that the dream was oddly depressing and "unusually mundane". Almost none of my dreams can be classed as "mundane" and I can't recall any other that didn't contain at least one ridiculous event or element. Also, the dream was peculiar in that the scenery, my car, everything I remember, appeared as if real. There were no typical dreamlike distortions or differences.

About an hour later I set off to work (my route, BTW, was entirely rural and normally I would encounter nine or ten cars on the five mile journey). As I approached the stretch of road that had figured in my dream, the dream itself was in my mind, but only as a matter of interest, as in, "Hey, this is where I dreamed about last night."

I rounded the corner and, at exactly the same point as in my dream, I saw a queue of cars. Just like my dream, it stretched half-way along the straight road and consisted of maybe 40 vehicles. Immediately I felt some element of shock at the similarity but at this point I don't believe I was thinking in terms of premonition.

Even so, as I was almost "prepared", I did slow down significantly and as I approached the last vehicle in the queue I was travelling around 10 - 15mph.

At this point I saw a man running towards me on the grass verge. I cannot say it was the "same" man as in my dream, and I don't recall the features of either, but this guy was also dressed quite smartly and I certainly don't recall any differences. I'm not entirely sure what my thoughts were at this time, but to the best of my knowledge I did recall what happened in my dream when the guy fell or jumped in front of my car.

I slowed to walking pace and 3 yards in front of my car the guy stumbled and half-fell into the road. He braced his fall with his hands and ended up on one knee on the tarmac. I jammed on the brakes and stopped the car without hitting him. I went to open the door to check if he was OK but clearly he was in a hurry as he got straight back up and ran off down the road.

I later found that there had been a car crash over the brow of the hill. The guy was actually a witness who was running to the hotel on the corner to make a call to the emergency services (this was before the days when everyone had a mobile phone, and anyway mobiles tended not to work in that area).

To the best of my knowledge, that's an accurate statement of what happened. Other than the fact that in the dream I hit the guy, and in reality I missed him (just), I could discern no differences whatsoever between the two events.

I actually hesitate in writing up the addendum, but seeing as I'll likely get panned for the story above, I figure, What the hell.

Every one of the next four nights that week I dreamed of something that came to pass the next day. None were as dramatic as the first incident, and individually they could be likely be dismissed as chance. However, when I consider the week as a whole I have to say it was a damn strange time.

It's worth noting that never before or since have I had anything remotely like this happen to me.

As I say, people may want to suggest I'm lying. That's fine. I have done so before when others have posted anecdotes. Perhaps it really was coincidence. Billions of people have billions of dreams every year. Can the chances of my account being random chance be accommodated in these billions? I have no idea. All I'm doing is posting this to show why I decline to utterly write off the possibility that premonition is a valid - if fleeting and unpredictable - phenomenon.
 
First off, I admit I'm a prolific dreamer and have kept a dream diary (off and on) for over 20 years. Often I'll make notes immediately on waking, then write up the dream later in the day or week. In this particular instance I made notes immediatley I awoke and wrote up the dream that night. Unfortunately, whilst I still have my notes - and a good memory of the dream / event - I've lost the notebook where I wrote up the "polished" version.

Would you be willing to provide us with the notes you jotted down? This is the only part that I would consider reliable corroboration. Memory can often fail in this type if situation, and the tricky thing is that you wouldn't know it had failed without corroborating evidence. There is no link between confidence in a memory and accuracy of a memory.

Before I arose I scribbled some notes about this dream. I wrote that the dream was oddly depressing and "unusually mundane". Almost none of my dreams can be classed as "mundane" and I can't recall any other that didn't contain at least one ridiculous event or element.

FYI: Mundane dreams usually occur early in the sleep cycle, and is part of the normal mechanism of sleeping/dreaming. The really weird stuff happens during REM sleep.
 
Would you be willing to provide us with the notes you jotted down? This is the only part that I would consider reliable corroboration. Memory can often fail in this type if situation, and the tricky thing is that you wouldn't know it had failed without corroborating evidence. There is no link between confidence in a memory and accuracy of a memory.

Give me a few days and I can scan them, if that would help (not that you'd be able to read the writing). I could type them up if you want. I'm not sure it would provide any corroboration, however, as you wouldn't know if I'd written the notes at the time or in the past 10 minutes!
 
Give me a few days and I can scan them, if that would help (not that you'd be able to read the writing). I could type them up if you want. I'm not sure it would provide any corroboration, however, as you wouldn't know if I'd written the notes at the time or in the past 10 minutes!

Promise you won't cheat? ;)

I can't be 100% sure you wouldn't do that, but this isn't really a scientific test of anything so we don't have to be too rigorous about it. I just think it would be interesting.
 
Promise you won't cheat? ;)

I can't be 100% sure you wouldn't do that, but this isn't really a scientific test of anything so we don't have to be too rigorous about it. I just think it would be interesting.

Sure, I'll dig out both scanner and notes hopefully this weekend.
 
What you're describing is shoehorning. If it's not clear what something is "predicting" until after the fact, then it is not a prediction. Cold readers and remote-viewers make much of this technique.

When I was into Jungian psychology, I got REALLY good at that. I grew really proud of myself that I was able to find hidden connections between dreams and real events, but the truth is, these hidden connections don't prove anything except that you're good at making connections.

I once dreamed that a woman was going on a hazardous journey, riding a horse, and I was following along from a distance in case anything went wrong. The Cyndi Lauper song, "Time After Time" was playing in the background. Suddenly, I saw that the woman was coming back the way she came. I was filled with alarm, for it was imperative that she continue her journey. She said that she was tired and discouraged, and her horse couldn't continue. I told her I would help, and so I went to a nearby bush and began digging for something to feed the horse. I finally found a jar full of some sort of vegetable stalks, which I fed to the horse. I looked over and saw that the woman had regained her confidence; she was standing straight up and looking out over the horizon towards her goal.

The very next day one of my employees (I was an assistant manager at a restaurant) told me in confidence that she was having many personal problems, including some at work, and she was considering suicide. I urged her not to do anything rash, and I told her I would work on the problems that were related to work. Later that day I called a suicide hotline, and they advised me to get her to focus on just one of her many problems so she wouldn't feel overwhelmed by all of them at once.

Anyway, she ended up being OK, but the point is, I suddenly realized that my dream the night before had foretold the unusual interaction with this woman. Just like the woman in the dream, she was discouraged and couldn't go on. In the dream I was so alarmed that she wanted to quit the journey because the journey was life itself. The horse represented her life force, and my search for food represented the search for a way to help the suicidal employee. And so on, and so on.

To this day, I find this very, very interesting. But not paranormal.
 
...Some cool dream stories...

At least your dream is one where the premonition did some good. Without the dream you may have run that man over!

Since you only have vague notes about the dream, and not the polished version, perhaps you had only a vaguely similar dream to what happened - and in 12 years your memory has become confused as to which parts were dream and which parts were reality? I look forward to seeing the scan of your notes - perhaps you could transcribe them here to whet our appetites?

Do you have any notes or specifics about the other 4 nights? Did you dream of things that were likely, or rare?
 
On this particular day, the light had been green for maybe 5 seconds and I was clipping along about 45 mph when a scene popped into my head of me being T-Boned from the right. I slowed down to about 15 mph and craned my head to the right just in time to see a car zooming through the red light at high speed.

3. There were no visual or auditory cues at the time I applied the brakes.
4. I would likely have been seriously hurt (or worse) had I not slowed down.

Disclaimer: (I have to keep adding this because you guys are so abusive and quick to attack!:D) I am as hardcore a skeptic as they come.

Hindsight is 20/20, assuming the base case scenario where everyone says your experience is a happen chance of random coincidence.

The paradox is that if you had believed the same thing at that time resulting in a dismissal of the 'warning', then you would have surely ended up in a vehicular accident? And possibly dead? Or would there still be a chance for survivial?
 
At least your dream is one where the premonition did some good. Without the dream you may have run that man over!

Someone else said that too. It would be nice, in a woo-ish way, to believe the dream somehow saved his life, but even in my dream I don't believe the guy was seriously injured.

Since you only have vague notes about the dream, and not the polished version, perhaps you had only a vaguely similar dream to what happened - and in 12 years your memory has become confused as to which parts were dream and which parts were reality?

That's possible, although I was sufficiently impressed at the time to ask about the event at work, which is how I found out that the guy had been running to the hotel. I didn't tell anyone the reason for my interest, though.

I look forward to seeing the scan of your notes - perhaps you could transcribe them here to whet our appetites?

I'll probably need to transcribe them anyway, I doubt they are fully comprehendable to anyone but me!

Do you have any notes or specifics about the other 4 nights? Did you dream of things that were likely, or rare?

Silly as it may seem, I deliberately didn't write any up any of the other instances because during that week, and in the months afterwards, I admit to being under the rather woo-like impression that if I made a big deal of such events, they would never happen to me again. As it was, they didn't anyway, so that was that idea scuppered.

In answer to "likely or rare", it's difficult to say. The dreams were similar in their dreary atmospheres. Individually, I would be inclined to write each one off as coincidence. Indeed, I can't even remember the 3rd and 4th beyond a very fuzzy overall concept, and my reaction at the time. I do recall the 2nd and 5th, however.

The 2nd involved the mega-exciting scenario of a broken photocopier. In my dream, two of my workmates stood looking at our photocopier, which had broken. I watched them without being involved. My boss then came over; his hands were black with copier toner and he had also had smudges of toner on his shirt. He was angry, and he said something about calling the maintenance guy because he'd had enough. The next day the photocopier did develop a fault and two of my colleagues stood beside it (perhaps not the same two, admittedly, as in my dream I didn't identify them). From my position I actually looked for my boss coming over at the exact time he appeared. His hands weren't black, and he didn't appear particularly angry, although the first thing he said was (to the best of my recollection), "Can you call out maintenance, I changed the toner and it's still not copying properly."

The fifth dream was of a similarly depressing atmosphere although this time it was more bizarre. I was flying through a forest of tall, snakelike trees. To my right was a giant bug-like beast. I flew past the beast and encountered a large, white wriggling worm. Swooping upwards I flew out from the forest and almost hit an elephant-sized mouse. Then I woke up.

No, this didn't happen for real the next day :), but in the evening there was a trailer for a nature documentary dealing with the microscopic life that can be found in the home. The trailer involved a simulation of a miniature camera rushing through a carpet, encountering bugs and wriggly things and finally - a mouse. It was pretty much exactly what I'd dreamed.

Certainly, in the latter instance I could have seen the trailer previously and forgotten about it. In the former, it's not difficult to assign the explanation of coincidence, as the photocopier was notoriously unreliable. Even summating the whole week's experiences I can't bring myself to conclude that something supernatural occurred, but equally I can't simply pass it off as coincidence or tricks of memory.
 
Last year, I was driving home on a suburban four lane road. I was several hundred feet from a somewhat blind intersection, meaning that I could see to the left, but the right-hand view was blocked by buildings until almost upon the intersection. I have driven the same intersection perhaps a thousand times and have NEVER slowed down unless the light just changed. I am an aggressive, but safe driver.

On this particular day, the light had been green for maybe 5 seconds and I was clipping along about 45 mph when a scene popped into my head of me being T-Boned from the right. I slowed down to about 15 mph and craned my head to the right just in time to see a car zooming through the red light at high speed.

Let's recap:

1. Driving timidly is not my style.
2. I was in autopilot mode driving on familiar turf.
3. There were no visual or auditory cues at the time I applied the brakes.
4. I would likely have been seriously hurt (or worse) had I not slowed down.
One thing I’ve wondered about (and never seen addressed) is the possibility that the individual who is having these deja-vu type premonitions has simply either stored the memory of the incident twice, with one ‘copy’ of it ‘miss-filed’ at an earlier point in his ‘memory sequence’, or, as in this case, has stored a single memory in the ‘wrong’ place on the sequence.

With the above in mind, maybe this is what happened –
RE is “in autopilot mode driving on familiar turf”.
RE ‘knows’ “I am an aggressive, but SAFE driver”.

So, RE is not strongly aware of his surroundings. It dawns on him that he’s approaching a blind, potentially dangerous intersection. He glances at the light as he automatically brakes aggressively, and another car passes through the intersection in front of him. A vision of what could have happened flashes through his mind, and is filed away into his memory. But, that memory gets miss-filed, and ends up being immediately recalled as occurring before it really happened. And, since RE is a 'SAFE driver', the light HAD to have been green (and possibly was) for only a few seconds. After all, he’s NEVER been in an accident! He CAN'T be at fault!

This scenario matches his account perfectly, with no need for clairvoyance.


I had an incident similar to the OP -- I had been riding my minibike …
I also had another incident where I had been riding a 10 speed …
Pure coincidence, I believe, but I keep my eyes peeled.
As a long time operator of old, poorly maintained farm equipment, the type of failure that you describe in both cases was probably not coincidence. At the higher speeds, forces on the parts that failed were being applied in very different ways than at the low speeds. One summer many years ago, I was pulling a hay wagon with a pickup truck. Every time I stopped and started up again, the wagon would be unhitched. I’d backup, put the draw pin back in, and drive away, only to have the same thing happen at the next stop. No failures at all at speed, only right after a stop. It took me a little while to figure out what was happening.

…not to mention that it is probably statistically incorrect to say that "billions" of dreams happen…
Why would you say this, given that there ARE billions of people who DO have several dreams each, every night? I mean, 6 billion people times 3 dreams every night is "billions", isn’t it?
 
Good post, Old Man.

I think people forget how unreliable and plastic memory is. Having a vivid visual image of a past event in your memory is NOT the same as having an actual videotape of an event. Just because a memory seems very vivid and certain doesn't mean it is correct.

On the other hand, I maintain that even if Random Element's experience happened in fact exactly as he described it, it still requires no explanation.
 
Don't you think someone like Lincoln would be prone to dreaming of assassinations? Especially a President that was so controversial in his day? How many times did he dream of assassins and it didn't come to pass?
None that I'm aware. Do you have any evidence that he had other dreams of assassins prior to this one?

You also failed to note that Lincoln did not dream his assassination, he had a dream about visiting his own funeral. No specifics as to how he was killed were related . . . (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Hill_Lamon):

You failed to read your own link carefully. According to it, Lincoln's dream stated:
" . . .Before me was a catafalque, on which rested a corpse wrapped in funeral vestments. Around it were stationed soldiers who were acting as guards; and there was a throng of people, gazing mournfully upon the corpse, whose face was covered, others weeping pitifully. 'Who is dead in the White House?' I demanded of one of the soldiers, 'The President,' was his answer; 'he was killed by an assassin.'"

It is worth noting that, according to Lamon, Lincoln didn't believe the dream was of his own death:

Once the President alluded to this terrible dream with some show of playful humor. "Hill," said he, "your apprehension of harm to me from some hidden enemy is downright foolishness. For a long time you have been trying to keep somebody—the Lord knows who—from killing me. Don't you see how it will turn out? In this dream it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed. It seems that this ghostly assassin tried his hand on some one else." (Lamon 1895, 116-117)

When you say that, according to Lamon, Lincoln didn't believe the dream was of his own death, observe that his dream was specifically about the assassination of the President. So when Lincoln told Lamon: "In this dream it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed", that doesn't make sense. In all probability, Lincoln was trying to convince either himself, Lamon, or both that somehow the dream wasn't what it appeared to be.

How many times has Booth made dream predictions that haven't come to pass? It just seems that the documentation only comes after the fact - or have you found something to back up the Wikipedia article on Booth?

From what I gather about Booth, he was a pretty ordinary fellow until he had his dreams about the plane crash. After that, he may have begun to believe, wrongly, that other of his dreams would prove prophetic. As I've already stated, it's possible that someone who has a well-documented premonition will never have one again. So, I'm not going to take Booth's recent dreams too seriously.
 
You failed to read your own link carefully. According to it, Lincoln's dream stated:
" . . .Before me was a catafalque, on which rested a corpse wrapped in funeral vestments. Around it were stationed soldiers who were acting as guards; and there was a throng of people, gazing mournfully upon the corpse, whose face was covered, others weeping pitifully. 'Who is dead in the White House?' I demanded of one of the soldiers, 'The President,' was his answer; 'he was killed by an assassin.'"



When you say that, according to Lamon, Lincoln didn't believe the dream was of his own death, observe that his dream was specifically about the assassination of the President. So when Lincoln told Lamon: "In this dream it was not me, but some other fellow, that was killed", that doesn't make sense. In all probability, Lincoln was trying to convince either himself, Lamon, or both that somehow the dream wasn't what it appeared to be.

It makes sense if Lincoln believed he would outlive his own presidency, and would live on to see a future president assassinated. He is told in his dream that 'The President' was assassinated - not 'President Lincoln'. As he doesn't dream that he is given the name 'Lincoln' as the dead president, nor does the responding soldier tell him it is him, he decides it is some other president, who has not yet been elected.

Why should this not make sense? Seems clear enough to me.
 
It makes sense if Lincoln believed he would outlive his own presidency, and would live on to see a future president assassinated. He is told in his dream that 'The President' was assassinated - not 'President Lincoln'. As he doesn't dream that he is given the name 'Lincoln' as the dead president, nor does the responding soldier tell him it is him, he decides it is some other president, who has not yet been elected.

Why should this not make sense? Seems clear enough to me.

It's also possible that, in his dream, Lincoln did not remember that HE was the President. I often have this sort of confusion in dreams. Just the other night I dreamed I was still working in the barbecue place where I worked in high school, and I often dream I am still living with my parents.
 
It's also possible that, in his dream, Lincoln did not remember that HE was the President. I often have this sort of confusion in dreams. Just the other night I dreamed I was still working in the barbecue place where I worked in high school, and I often dream I am still living with my parents.

Perhaps, but either way does not change the fact that he did not psychically predict his own assassination.
 
None that I'm aware. Do you have any evidence that he had other dreams of assassins prior to this one?

Because remember, it's reasonable to assume that Lincoln had magical dreams unless proven otherwise...

While we're at it, unicorn ponies for everyone!
 
None that I'm aware. Do you have any evidence that he had other dreams of assassins prior to this one?

As a president he probably upheld the idea that he was more prone to assassination than the average person, couple that with the fact that threatening events are very common in dreams (and become even more frequent due to threatening experiences/environment) it doesn't seem unlikely that he had had previous dreams of assassinations/assassins. That is still not evidence of course, but it might not be as far-fetched as you seem to think.
 

Back
Top Bottom