Predicting the Future is a Reality - Using Mathematics and the Moon

Well, let's not let this thread go to waste. What stocks should I buy today if I wanted to sell them next week at a profit?
I regularly get sent some really good insider dealing tips from anonymous people. These shares are hot and about to soar. What's more the shares are dirt cheap. If you give me you e-mail address I will pass it on to the people when they contact me.
 
I regularly get sent some really good insider dealing tips from anonymous people. These shares are hot and about to soar. What's more the shares are dirt cheap. If you give me you e-mail address I will pass it on to the people when they contact me.

While you're at it, I've got this awesome deal in Nigeria going! There's all this money that I need to move out of the country with my business associate, Mr. Mugu, and all I need is ten thousand dollars to bride customs with!

Act now!
 
How in heck's name can the moon have influenced the fact that Jeff Skilling's use of mark-to-market accounting would allow Enron to grossly overstate he value of its assets while hiding its debts? And how did the moon blow the thing wide open, bankrupt the company and put its founders in jail?

See, in its first years, Enron was hugely successful. Any decent stock portfolio should have included a position on Enron (and many did - the large investment houses all rated Enron a strong buy). And then it all just vanished.

Please decrement the counter to zero and show that this system never recommended buying Enron or recommended buying and then selling it all just before the collapse.
 
Okay, here's a link to Calendar Research, Inc.. If you go to the resources section, there's a sample newsletter.

I couldn't read much of this without getting a major headache. It looks to me like Star Trek level technobabble surrounded by lots of charts. I'm not a financial analyst but this newsletter appears to be utter nonsense.

The owner of the site describes his methods in this manner:

Christopher Carolan said:
My research had its genesis in the emotional options' trading pits, where I spent the decade of the 1980s. Those points in time where mass psychology seem to simultaneously flip from optimist to pessimist or vice versa are the focal point of the Spiral Calendar. Are such reversals serial events wherby each person changes their opinion based on another's change of course? Or do people simultaneously and independantly undergo some type of trigger that changes their point of view? My research suggests the latter, and that such periods of emotional switching are cyclically based.

The Spiral Calendar is based on the orignal observation that the historic stock market crashes of 1987 and 1929 occured on the exact same date on a lunar calendar. With that research I was able in 1997 to precisely forecast the date of the Asian panic's climax two weeks in advance.

The site also refers to a book: The Spiral Calendar and its Effects on Financial Markets

Here's an excerpt from chapter one which, to me, makes no sense:

Each event in 1987 occurred approximately 717 moons from the analogous point in 1929. The average of the four distances is 717.03. I felt that if there were a larger pattern to be found, this number should turn out to be significant. My first inclination was to check if it was a Fibonacci number. I first learned of Fibonacci numbers in high school. I next encountered them and the related golden section in my collegiate studies of ancient art and architecture. My third experience with Fibonacci numbers came through the work of R.N. Elliott and Robert Prechter and their analysis of the stock market. Yet 717 is not a Fibonacci number. I wondered if 717 might be some permutation of a Fibonacci number, maybe a multiple or a square root. With calculator and pencil in hand I proceeded through the sequence of Fibonacci numbers. When I entered the 29th Fibonacci number, 514,229, into the calculator and pressed the square root button -- there was 717.0976. My first thought then is still very clear in my memory: "The world is a very beautiful place."

The first chapter can be read for free at: http://www.calendarresearch.com/chapter1.html
 
Okay, here's a link to Calendar Research, Inc.. If you go to the resources section, there's a sample newsletter.

I couldn't read much of this without getting a major headache. It looks to me like Star Trek level technobabble surrounded by lots of charts. I'm not a financial analyst but this newsletter appears to be utter nonsense.

The owner of the site describes his methods in this manner:



The site also refers to a book: The Spiral Calendar and its Effects on Financial Markets

Here's an excerpt from chapter one which, to me, makes no sense:



The first chapter can be read for free at: http://www.calendarresearch.com/chapter1.html

Oh, boy, he's making use of Elliot and Pretcher? JohnnyFive, your advice on this, since you seem to be the market expert. Do these two have anything going on with them, or are they full of crap? I have a debate at work about Pretcher and Elliott waves. I say that they're excellent for fitting a pattern in the past, but using them to predict in the future? Kind of useless. Pretcher will only claim that a downward wave occured once an upward wave is fully shown. Or as I like to put it, I can write a great mathematical model to explain who's sitting in what seat on Sunday 16 September when the GB Packers play the NY Giants, but will this model tell me who's sitting in seat 14J in section 120 when Miami plays the Jets the following week? Or as I see it, Pretcher will tell me that the stock will stop rising only after it's dropped by 20%.

Any thoughts on Elliott waves and if they're usefull?
 
Oh, boy, he's making use of Elliot and Pretcher? JohnnyFive, your advice on this, since you seem to be the market expert. Do these two have anything going on with them, or are they full of crap?

I wouldn't go so far as to claim to be a market expert, but I do have a bit of insight into it, so I'll have a go at this.

Although there certainly do appear to be market cycles, the error is in assuming those cycles can necessarily be predicted. There's a big difference between the concept of a market trend and being able to know exactly when a market will take off or tank. There are simply too many chaotic factors for that level of precision prediction.

Eventually something bad will happen to take the market down a few pegs, and then people tend to build it back up. This happens again and again with similar stages (market drops, gains strength over time, drops again, etc.), but thinking that this allows you to know exactly when the market will do something is a huge leap to make, and one that does not really work.

If you look at the historical charts for the various indexes, you can see how the market goes up and down, in irregular cycles. Things are discovered, industries come and go, and [rule 8] happens (such as the 9/11 attacks, that had a profound impact on the market). The idea that you can predict what will happen next can seem plausible, but it just doesn't represent reality.

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/nasdaq1978.html (NASDAQ chart)

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html (Dow chart)

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1960.html (Dow weeklies)

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/spx1960.html (S&P)

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1986.html (Dow again, note the tech crash in the late 90's, and the drop after 2001)

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/nasdaq1986.html (NASDAQ again, 1986 - 2006)

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djiagold1980.html (For fun: Gold prices)

Although the predictive methods look interesting, a look at the long time reveals there is considerable variation in the actual data. When you throw in commodities and other forms of investment (real estate, currency), it becomes even more complicated. I think the apparent predictive power of such systems largely stems from a combination of vague rules and fancy-sounding language that tends to confuse unsophisticated investors.

It ultimately comes down to what I said earlier: If there were a way to beat the market, it would fundamentally alter the market. This is not a one-sided system where you just buy stuff and nothing happens - when you trade on the market, what you do ultimately has an effect on the market itself.

Even putting magical "pick the winners" systems aside, the ability to forecast market cycles would alter them, because the prices of the investments being traded are not created in a vacuum. Any significant number of investors basing their investments on a "system" would have an actual impact on the market, automatically rendering that "system" obsolete.

It's kind of like the Maxwell's Demon scenario. It cannot happen in real life because the measuring (or, in the case of markets, using the "system") would fundamentally alter the state of the system.

It is possible to analyze the market conditions and attempt to forecast trends, but not in some magic, surefire way. As with all risk management, you need to understand the underlying factors involved in the market at a given time, and you try to make a best guess about what might happen.

But, ultimately, you're really just assigning probabilities based on what you know from experience and research. There is no magic formula that will guarantee success at investing any more than I have a magic formula that guarantees I never write an insurance policy that loses money.

Someone here mentioned Enron, which is a good example of the kind of uncertainty that faces anyone trying to manage risk. I'd love to see a formula that can predict when the next market-mauling terrorist attack will occur. Somehow I don't think it's to be found in the moon, or the Fibbonacci sequence, or anything else.
 
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Oh Browne
 
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And as has been said before, there would be second guessing, and second guessing the second guessers ad infinitum if theis "knowledge" was ever accepted or acted on. It *could* affect the price, especially in speculative bubbles...

Jim
 
Possible Mechanism for Astrology

I'm not aware of any empirical support for personality differences based on birthday. If however, it does turn out that there are objective personality traits based on "astrological sign", I thought of a mechanism by which this might occur: Photoperiod.

Length of day varys by season, of course, and perhaps this influences hormone production during pregnancy, similar to Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD). A baby concieved in April, born in December would experience a different pattern of homonal changes in utero than one concieved in September and born in June.

If this has any validity, we would expect to see opposite patterns south of the equator, and more noticeable patterns further from the equator.

Just an idea.
 
I'm not aware of any empirical support for personality differences based on birthday. If however, it does turn out that there are objective personality traits based on "astrological sign", I thought of a mechanism by which this might occur: Photoperiod.

[snip]

Just an idea.

Which is good, to have ideas.

The difficulty this idea immediately runs into is that there is no human rutting-period. Close behind is the hidden nature of human female fertility - as compared to, say, chimpanzees. These are hormone-heavy issues. Personality-traits are important in a human environment, even in the pre-agricultural state of grace (BA, Before Astrology). Any seasonal effect would surely be so evident by now that we wouldn't even be discussing it. Nor would the Randi Million have been offered, let alone claimed.

The evidence is that HomSap is almost uninfluenced by seasonal variation. Thatt mght even be one of its strengths.
 
It ultimately comes down to what I said earlier: If there were a way to beat the market, it would fundamentally alter the market.

Not if you understand that greed matters. There's a horizon you can stay below where you can bleed a system without it reacting.

Milken was right about junk-bonds in his early days, the risk-premium outweighed the actual risk. Spread your investment and you will out-perform the staid institutions. This can be sustained as long as you don't attract attention. "Low-Key" is the watchword. Do not disturb the environment you're exploiting.

Milken et al did not appreciate that. And they were greedy.
 
I hacked into their website and stole their methodology for predicting stock prices...I used it and predicted their stock price would drop.

You'd think they would know this already and not even bother.
 
Christopher Carolan said:
My research had its genesis in the emotional options' trading pits, where I spent the decade of the 1980s.

Now this is more like it! I want to get a put option on Mrs geoman feeling all pissed off when I get back from this course I'm on, and a call on her being in a really good mood.
 
Which is good, to have ideas.

The difficulty this idea immediately runs into is that there is no human rutting-period. Close behind is the hidden nature of human female fertility - as compared to, say, chimpanzees. These are hormone-heavy issues. Personality-traits are important in a human environment, even in the pre-agricultural state of grace (BA, Before Astrology). Any seasonal effect would surely be so evident by now that we wouldn't even be discussing it. Nor would the Randi Million have been offered, let alone claimed.

The evidence is that HomSap is almost uninfluenced by seasonal variation. Thatt mght even be one of its strengths.

I think "if it existed we would have already discovered it" is a terrible approach to empiricism and the scientific method. He put out an interesting hypothesis. The first place to start is to check the literature to see if it in fact has been investigated. The second place is to actually investigate.
 
How in heck's name can the moon have influenced the fact that Jeff Skilling's use of mark-to-market accounting would allow Enron to grossly overstate he value of its assets while hiding its debts? And how did the moon blow the thing wide open, bankrupt the company and put its founders in jail?

See, in its first years, Enron was hugely successful. Any decent stock portfolio should have included a position on Enron (and many did - the large investment houses all rated Enron a strong buy). And then it all just vanished.

Please decrement the counter to zero and show that this system never recommended buying Enron or recommended buying and then selling it all just before the collapse.

That's not a fair critcism unless they made that specific claim. I didn't notice an argument against diversification. In theory if one could predict large market trends by some propriety mechanism, one could still be unable to predict an individual company's success or failure.
 
That's not a fair critcism unless they made that specific claim. I didn't notice an argument against diversification. In theory if one could predict large market trends by some propriety mechanism, one could still be unable to predict an individual company's success or failure.


I would agree with you if Enron's collapse had only affected the stockholders of Enron. Instead, it had widespread impact on the US and world economy. Something like $100 billion disappeared overnight. It caused the entire accounting house of Arthur Anderson to disolve (and led to the discovery of accounting fraud at WorldCom). Thousands of employees lost their pension and deferred compensation. And it led to the passage of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, the most significant change in securities law since the 1930s. More after-effects are listed here.

As the Enron scandal moved the entire market, even the most diversified portfolio felt the effects. If the moon couldn't predict this, it is worthless. If it could, I'd like to see the proof.
 
"That we can now think of no mechanism for astrology is relevant but unconvincing. No mechanism was known, for example, for continental drift when it was proposed by Wegener. Nevertheless, we see that Wegener was right, and those who objected on the grounds of unavailable mechanism were wrong."
- Carl Sagan

I remember listening to a BBC radio4 probgamme "Beyond Belief"* about astrology and someone who had claimed that "sportemen were born in Mars" or some such guff. A colleague was giving me a lift home at the time and he said "well I am glad that it is good-old western astrology that is true and not any oriental claptrap..."

I thought that summed up the problem nicely. Which method of astrology does one choose to believe in?

Of course if one believed that one's birthsign made one a confident leader, then it might help, or probably the converse; that if one thought that one's birthsign doomed any attempts at leadershit, one would probably fail in any attempts...

Jim


*(which is like a 30 minute echumenical "thought for the day" Typicasl makeup of one reformed rabbi, one RC priest and one hindu, to discuss a matter of "religion"). Irritating
 
...
Someone here mentioned Enron, which is a good example of the kind of uncertainty that faces anyone trying to manage risk. I'd love to see a formula that can predict when the next market-mauling terrorist attack will occur. Somehow I don't think it's to be found in the moon, or the Fibbonacci sequence, or anything else.

Wow, holy smokes, thanks! I'm going to have to read this one over a few times to really understand it fully.

You mentioned predicting ultra-rare events. I wanted to give you a lovely story along these same lines though. Remember the TJX credit card system theft (TJ MAxx, Marshalls, Winners, HomeGoods, ...)? Last month, the fraud group asks if I can build a statistical model to predict the next time a hacker will break into a store's database, and if so, which store. Any advice? I've already tried using chicken bones, tea leaves, and measuring the rings around Uranus. Did I miss something? I don't think the fraud group appreciated me telling them that they were smoking crack and SOL on this one.
 
"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper." - Albert Einstein

Is that a real Einstein quote?
 

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