Potentialities of entheogenic psychedelics (drugs)

[beeksc1]

Commentary on psychedelics; experiences that have come from psychedelics; perspective on herbs, naturally-occurring chemicals, or semi-synthesized chemicals that are considered entheogenic psychedelics

An entheogen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen
is a god-containing plant or chemical that is traditionally used for spiritual expression or consciousness expansion.

Google Scholar - search for: psychedelic
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=psychedelic&hl=en&lr=&btnG=Search

Also, Search psychedelic research at local University library; PsycInfo; or other search engines that locate scientific resources.

MAPS.org
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies
http://www.maps.org/

MAPS assists "scientists to design, obtain approval for, fund, conduct and report on research into the healing and spiritual potentials of psychedelics and marijuana."

 

[Dancing David]

Well, some are psuedohallucinogens, some are actual hallucinogens.

People will respond differently to substances than others.

My father had a co-worker who lived with the Huichole in the 1960s his son underwent a coming of age ceremony and ingested the magic substance, which had no effect on him.

Also if people claim the 'healing' I would like to see more rigor in the scales they use to test therapuetic effects.

 

[beeksc1]

Psychedelics refer to chemicals that include the tryptamines and phenethylamines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptamine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine

Psychedelics are not hallucinogens; this is a misnomer, even used within the scientific community. Hallucinogens refer to deliriants and dissociatives

Deliriants refer to the active components in plants such as deadly nightshade, mandrake, henbane and datura (containing tropane alkaloids sometimes referred to as the Belladonna alkaloids).

Dissociative drugs mainly refer to phencyclidine (PCP), ketamine, and dextromethorphan (DXM).

This thread concerns true psychedelics, such as to LSD, psilocybin, DMT, LSA-containing seeds, and possibly cannabis; phenethylamines such as 2c-I and those psychedelic drugs of the 2C family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C_(psychedelics)
And how these compounds can be used for consciousness-expansion and within the context of a clinical setting

This thread is not discussing "hallucinogens" (dissociatives and deliriants)

A noteworthy read:
LSD Psychotherapy (1980) - authored and researched by Stanislav Grof

LSD and Psilocybin Research - MAPS.org
http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/

People will respond differently to substances than others.
My father had a co-worker who lived with the Huichole in the 1960s his son underwent a coming of age ceremony and ingested the magic substance, which had no effect on him.
Also if people claim the 'healing' I would like to see more rigor in the scales they use to test therapuetic effects.

Would not we all?

Yea, and it is true; all people react differently to all drugs

That still virtually means nothing when saying, responsible psychedelic drug use and psychedelic therapy offers one of the most promising tools for transcendental-actualization, consciousness-expansion, and therapeutic interventions. The ancients (such as the Mayans, the indigenous peoples of most lands, and the Amazonian tribes, etc.) have known the powers of entheogens and psychedelic brew for ages; yet because of a lack of experience and a denial of ancient wisdom, modern man and western science "thinks" he knows better

A recent report:

Treatment of alcoholism using psychedelic drugs: A review of the program of research. Mangini, Mariavittoria; Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, Vol 30(4), Oct-Dec 1998. pp. 381-418.

Abstract: Explores the history of one branch of psychedelic research, the therapeutic use of LSD in the treatment of alcoholism, and of the events that led to the relabeling of the hallucinogens as drugs of abuse. The observation that the frightening experience of delirium tremens sometimes led alcoholics to moderate their alcohol intake suggested to early psychedelic researchers that the "psychotomimetic" experience thought to be produced by LSD could be used to treat alcoholism. A number of hypothesis-generating studies employing a variety of research designs to examine this premise were completed, but relatively few controlled trials attempted hypothesis testing. After a 30-yr hiatus, this research is gradually being resumed, and there is renewed interest in the findings of previous studies.

The most efficacious treatment for alcoholism is psychedelic therapy?

 

[Dancing David]

Sorry, I have looked at this kind of research before, i will again, i hope it is not as sorry as it was in the past. More later. (usualy very small samples and non-rigorous scoring, very few quality of life baselines or other measures of benefit).

 

[beeksc1]

^ So Someone who I met (Swim) guesses you are unfamiliar with the research of Rick Strassman MD?

Strassman conducted many experiments with "subjects" who were given various doses of DMT

Strassman reported his findings is the text:

DMT: The Spirit Molecule: A Doctor's Revolutionary Research into the Biology of Near-Death and Mystical Experiences
http://www.amazon.com/DMT-Molecule-Revolutionary-Near-Death-Experiences/dp/0892819278

DMT: The spirit molecule: A doctor's revolutionary research into the biology of near-death and mystical experiences. Strassman, Rick; Rochester, VT, US: Park Street Press, 2001. xviii, 358 pp.

Abstract: From 1990 to 1995 the author conducted DEA-approved clinical research in which he injected 60 volunteers with DMT, on of the most powerful psychedlics known. His detailed account of those sessions in an inquiry into the nature of the human mind and the therapeutic potential of psychedelics. DMT, a plant-derived chemical that is also manufactured by the human brain, consistently produced near-death and mystical experiences. Many volunteers reported convincing encounters with intelligence nonhuman presences, especially "aliens." Nearly all felt that the sessions were among the most profound experiences of their lives.

o yea, as it mentions in the abstract the DEA was involved in the research

Sorry, I have looked at this kind of research before, i will again, i hope it is not as sorry as it was in the past.

Swim does not think it is the research is sorry; maybe it is your perspective? You are not above this; noone is; so please, brother man, do the community a favor and do not act like it

Reviews on the research:

Alissa Hirshfeld-Flores, M.A., LMFT, The American Journal of Psychiatry, August 2002
This book is a highly readable, intriguing, provocative description of Rick Strassman's theories and research concerning the effects of DMT.

Review
"Fascinating and provocative. A remarkable exploration of the boundaries of science and consciousness itself."
( Rupert Sheldrake, author of The Presence of the Past )

"Rick Strassman's pioneering research work with DMT, a natural psychedelic drug used by Amazonian Indians, raises fascinating questions about the neurochemical basis of experience and the feasibility of conducting human research with mind-altering drugs in a university medical center. Truly adventurous reading!"
(Andrew Weil, M.D., author of Spontaneous Healing )

"DMT: The Spirit Molecule is a tantalizing peek into a new model of how the brain and mind work."
(Bruce Greyson, editor of the Journal of Near-Death Studies, Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia )

"This book is essential reading for anyone with an interest in the mind, philosophy, the nature of reality, and spirituality."
(Karl Jansen, M.D., Ph.D. )

"DMT: The Spirit Molecule points the way beyond the present impasse of the reigning 'drug abuse' paradigm."
(Jonathan Ott, author of The Age of Entheogens and Hallucinogenic Plants of North America )

"The most extensive scientific study of the mental and perceptual effects of a psychedelic drug since the 1960s."
(Ralph Metzner, Ph.D., author of Ayahuasca: Consciousness and the Spirits of Nature )

"Strassman's important research contributes to a growing awareness that we inhabit a multi-dimensional universe."
(John Mack, MD Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, author of Abduction and Passport to the Cosmos )

"Strassman raises vital questions about the origin of spiritual experiences and the nature of consciousness."
(Larry Dossey MD, author of Reinventing Medicine, and Healing Words; Executive Editor, Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine )

"DMT: The Spirit Molecule is a fascinating journey into the research of psychedelics. . . . The questions and possible explanations about the endogenous presence of DMT that he raises not only enlarge the discussion about psychedelics but also expand our understanding of the nature of consciousness."
(Jule Klotter, Townsend Letter for Doctors & Patients - July, 2001 )

"This book will be of profound interest to . . . anyone with a deep interest in the study of consciousness, visionary states and/or psycho-pharmacology."
(J. P. Harpignies, Lapis )

"Strassman's psychonauts regularly found themselves hurtled into alien laboratories, high-tech nurseries, and Day-Glo hieroglyphic hypercubes."
(Erik Davis, The Village Voice )

"DMT: the Spirit Molecule is an enriching journey into one scientist's courageous attempt to solve a bit more of the brain/mind/spirit mystery at the center of human existence."
(Vicki Ecker, UFO Magazine, December-January 2002 )

"What you will find is a thoughtful, well-written report about another of life's mysteries."
(James Dekorne, Fortean Times, November 2001 )

"Strassman's research was an important step, one that will potentially illuminate the path for future researchers and volunteers alike, and this book is a great contribution to the ongoing dialogue surrounding psychedelics."
(Scotto, Trip, Fall 2001 )

"This is probably the most thorough book on the psychedelic, DMT--its history, chemistry, uses (legal and illegal), and its effects. This is a very compelling, thoughtful book, written by a scrupulous scientist with the soul of a meditator."
(The Book Reader, Spring/Summer 2002 )

"The account of the project is an excellent inside view of human drug studies, especially those with psychedelics."
(Paul Von Ward, The AHP Perspective, June/July 2002 )

"This book is a highly readable, intriguing, provocative description of Rick Strassman's theories and research concerning the effects of DMT."
(Alissa Hirshfeld-Flores, M.A., LMFT, The American Journal of Psychiatry, August 2002 )

"Rick Strassman's experimentation with the psychoactive substance DMT is taking up where Leary's 1950/60's LSD experiments stopped."
(Rev. Dr. S. D'Montford, New Dawn, Jan-Feb 2006 )

 

[luchog]

^ So Someone who I met (Swim) guesses you are unfamiliar with the research of Rick Strassman MD?

Strassman conducted many experiments with "subjects" who were given various doses of DMT

The name sounded familiar, and my first impulse was to dismiss him as yet another nutjob drug researcher who probably indulged too much in his own studies. Not sure if I was correct, I went and did some digging on his website and some reviews of his work, both positive and negative.

I was right. He was the nutjob I was thinking of.

Yet another example of the sad phenomenon of an otherwise decent scientific researcher who lets his own imagination and ignorance overrule his logic and common sense with mystical and utopian fantasies.

What started out as simple research into the possibly theraputic effects of various psychoactive drugs, including DMT, LSD, and Psilocybin; turned into moonbat ramblings about travelling in alternative/parallel universes and contacting nonphysical spirit beings through the use of drugs. All a complete load of nonsense with no solid evidence to back it up.

 

[Dancing David]

So, lets us see, what standard measures and assessment interview did Strassman use to determine his 'effects', it sure sounds like psychodynamic hoopla to me.

Did he even use a structured interview and scale rating?

So how did he decide that his theories were accurate, and please brotherman don't condescend to me, I know a lot more than I let on , especially about ethnogens and psychedelics. I also am someone with a passing intrest in nuerobiology and pharmacology.

If you can point me to how Strassman did the research rather than a book review that would be a lot more meaningful. So far it looks like poorly designed and unscientific as all heck.

(Here I will give you a clue, my father knew Peter Furst rather well, who wrote Flesh of the Gods (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Peter T. Furst&page=1,), I met Mr. Furst a number of times and his goofy hairless dog, as well I worked in mental health for 15 years and am a psychology major from a behavioral school and took some neurochemistry, I was also a heavy user of many different hallucinogens and was addicted to LSD for quite a period of time.)


It would appear that Strassman's last publication in PubMed was 2001, no where do I see any controlled studt showing it helps treat alcoholism.

 

[beeksc1]

He (Strassman) was the nutjob I was thinking of.
Yet another example of the sad phenomenon of an otherwise decent scientific researcher who lets his own imagination and ignorance overrule his logic and common sense with mystical and utopian fantasies.

So the DEA funds nutjobs? That's a new one on Swim. If you are so passionate about that perspective; perhaps, you could approach Strassman
http://www.rickstrassman.com/pages/contact/
and let him know how you feel? the community might be interested in what he has to say; if he would reply at all

Please man, if you would not say that to person's face; please do not post. Be real

So, lets us see, what standard measures and assessment interview did Strassman use to determine his 'effects', it sure sounds like psychodynamic hoopla to me.

Good question; I will find out the outcome measures that were used in my future studies. as a psychedelic journey is an inner experience; the research is always going to face challenges when it comes to this; and please refrain from name-calling... the psychodynamic... even if it reefers to the research

please brotherman don't condescend to me, I know a lot more than I let on , especially about ethnogens and psychedelics.

Entheogens... or ethnobotanicals

I apologize if you got that impression; Swim just does not understand why you were not up-front and honest in the first place?

(Here I will give you a clue, my father knew Peter Furst rather well, who wrote Flesh of the Gods (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Peter T. Furst&page=1,), I met Mr. Furst a number of times and his goofy hairless dog, as well I worked in mental health for 15 years and am a psychology major from a behavioral school and took some neurochemistry, I was also a heavy user of many different hallucinogens and was addicted to LSD for quite a period of time.)
It would appear that Strassman's last publication in PubMed was 2001, no where do I see any controlled studt showing it helps treat alcoholism.

Thats cool that your dad knew Furst.

A tipping of the hat for working in a helping profession; sounds good

Sorry to hear about those struggles with LSD; but if you graduated from a skool that is big on behaviorism, it seems as if you would have worded it as, "Swim was psychologically dependent upon LSD for quite a period of time."

tryptamines, phenethylamines, and cannabis pose no physical dependency; the tryptamine drugs (entheogens, psychedelics) can pose psychological dependence; but LSD, psilocybin, DMT, etc are not physically "addictive"

Swim thinks that you may have mixed the two posts up; LSD and psilocybin has been used to treat alcoholism; the DMT studies by Strassman were to assess the effects of the psychedelic "drug"

+++

'Ecstasy is the key to treating PTSD'

"At last the incurably traumatised may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And controversially, the key to taming their demons is the ‘killer’ drug Ecstasy"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3850302.ece

+++

Another study that is currently being conducted:

Phase II dose-response pilot study of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-assisted psychotherapy in subjects with anxiety associated with advanced-stage cancer.

PI is John H. Halpern, M.D.

3.0 Methods

3.1 Overview

This randomized, dose-response pilot study is double-blinded for dose and uses a low dose condition that functions as an active placebo control. The study will involve twelve men and women diagnosed with advanced-stage cancer and with 12 months or less of expected remaining life, who are experiencing diagnosis-associated anxiety. Participants will either be individuals who have failed to respond adequately, if at all, to anxiolytic medications or who refuse anxiolytic medications. All participants will be recruited from within the group practice of the co-investigator oncologist Dr. Todd Shuster at the Medical Oncology department at the Lahey Clinic. Each participant will receive at McLean Hospital six one-hour sessions of non-drug psychotherapy, as well as two day-long experimental sessions using MDMA, scheduled 2-3 weeks apart, with overnight observation at McLean Hospital. Additional sessions may also be requested during the course of the study. If the participant's health precludes traveling to McLean Hospital after the second experimental session, then meetings for administration of measures and psychotherapy (on Day 35 and Day 84 - See Table 2 below) can be conducted at the participant's home. Following baseline measures and one introductory psychotherapy session, all participants will receive MDMA on each of the two day-long experimental sessions (on Days 14 and 28).

Edited by jmercer: 

Removed due to breach of rule 4

http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/canceranxiety/irb-protocol/

+

Has all the outcomes measures you could ever wish for

It will be interesting to see the results

Love, peace, freedom

~beeks

beeksc1, please review your Membership Agreement, paying especial attention to rule 4. I've removed most of the post and left the link, but we suggest no more than a paragraph be quoted and a link supplied from articles.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[plumjam]

So the DEA funds nutjobs? That's a new one on Swim. If you are so passionate about that perspective; perhaps, you could approach Strassman
http://www.rickstrassman.com/pages/contact/
and let him know how you feel? the community might be interested in what he has to say; if he would reply at all

Please man, if you would not say that to person's face; please do not post. Be real



Good question; I will find out the outcome measures that were used in my future studies. as a psychedelic journey is an inner experience; the research is always going to face challenges when it comes to this; and please refrain from name-calling... the psychodynamic... even if it reefers to the research



Entheogens... or ethnobotanicals

I apologize if you got that impression; Swim just does not understand why you were not up-front and honest in the first place?



Thats cool that your dad knew Furst.

A tipping of the hat for working in a helping profession; sounds good

Sorry to hear about those struggles with LSD; but if you graduated from a skool that is big on behaviorism, it seems as if you would have worded it as, "Swim was psychologically dependent upon LSD for quite a period of time."

tryptamines, phenethylamines, and cannabis pose no physical dependency; the tryptamine drugs (entheogens, psychedelics) can pose psychological dependence; but LSD, psilocybin, DMT, etc are not physically "addictive"

Swim thinks that you may have mixed the two posts up; LSD and psilocybin has been used to treat alcoholism; the DMT studies by Strassman were to assess the effects of the psychedelic "drug"

+++

'Ecstasy is the key to treating PTSD'

"At last the incurably traumatised may be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And controversially, the key to taming their demons is the ‘killer’ drug Ecstasy"
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article3850302.ece

+++

Another study that is currently being conducted:

Phase II dose-response pilot study of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-assisted psychotherapy in subjects with anxiety associated with advanced-stage cancer.

PI is John H. Halpern, M.D.

3.0 Methods

3.1 Overview

This randomized, dose-response pilot study is double-blinded for dose and uses a low dose condition that functions as an active placebo control. The study will involve twelve men and women diagnosed with advanced-stage cancer and with 12 months or less of expected remaining life, who are experiencing diagnosis-associated anxiety. Participants will either be individuals who have failed to respond adequately, if at all, to anxiolytic medications or who refuse anxiolytic medications. All participants will be recruited from within the group practice of the co-investigator oncologist Dr. Todd Shuster at the Medical Oncology department at the Lahey Clinic. Each participant will receive at McLean Hospital six one-hour sessions of non-drug psychotherapy, as well as two day-long experimental sessions using MDMA, scheduled 2-3 weeks apart, with overnight observation at McLean Hospital. Additional sessions may also be requested during the course of the study. If the participant's health precludes traveling to McLean Hospital after the second experimental session, then meetings for administration of measures and psychotherapy (on Day 35 and Day 84 - See Table 2 below) can be conducted at the participant's home. Following baseline measures and one introductory psychotherapy session, all participants will receive MDMA on each of the two day-long experimental sessions (on Days 14 and 28).

Edited by jmercer: 

Removed to comply with previous edit regarding breach of rule 4 in original post.

http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/canceranxiety/irb-protocol/

+

Has all the outcomes measures you could ever wish for

It will be interesting to see the results

Love, peace, freedom

~beeks

Oh.

 

[Dancing David]

Hi, please do as you wish, i have seen the PTSD study as well, small groups and no controls, you are the one who mentioned the hallucinogens and alcoholism, so be sure to confuse yourself more often.

Sorry, I will not treat any sort of namby-pamby 'inner psychic journey' as more than anecdotal and not very scientific, such experiences may have subjective meaning for the participant but that does not mean that they are meaningful in a therapuetic context.

 

[INRM]

The problem with Strassman is that he's probably done the drugs so much that he's eventually come to believe the visions as true.

It's kind of sad for a person who's a psychiatrist to fall for this, but I guess it happens to anybody.

 

[thesyntaxera]

Yeah, I am going to have to echo the sentiments by others here. There is no concrete evidence yet that any kind of psychedelic therapy has any serious benefits...yet. If in the future more rigorous research is done into the chemicals and their effects, perhaps some thing will come of it...right now it seems like a lot of wishful thinking by people who value their personal psychedelic experiences and are trying to validate those experiences with science.

I can certainly see psychedelic therapy as being useful, as the main feature of a psychedelic experience is the ability to digest large amounts of thought information in a short period of time, but this can be achieved in ways that don't involve drugs....sure traditional forms of therapy take longer, and aren't as exotic as taking some visionary substance and having your mind literally blown, but then again, they have a proven track record whereas the idea of some magic pill that will fix your mental woes is a bit insulting to the complexity of the brain.

A serious potential role I could see is in the treatment of chemical dependency cases, as was pointed out previously. A main feature of AA/NA treatment is the idea of having a spiritual "awakening" of sorts which drives your recovery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous

By 1934, alcoholic Bill Wilson had ruined a promising Wall Street career with his constant drunkenness. He was introduced to the idea of a spiritual cure by old drinking buddy Ebby Thacher who had become a member of a Christian movement called the Oxford Group. Wilson was treated by Dr. William Silkworth who saw alcoholism as an illness, a mental obsession and an allergy rather than a moral failing. [5] While in Towns hospital under Silkworth's care, Wilson claimed a spiritual experience while undergoing an unorthodox drug cure developed by Charles B. Towns and Dr. Alexander Lambert, which included Deliriants in its formula.[6] He became convinced of the existence of a healing higher power and he was able to stop drinking.

Seeing as how you can reproduce a "spiritual experience" with entheogens they may prove useful....

 

[quarky]

Going on a vacation can be therapuetic.

 

[beeksc1]

Sorry, I will not treat any sort of namby-pamby 'inner psychic journey' as more than anecdotal and not very scientific, such experiences may have subjective meaning for the participant but that does not mean that they are meaningful in a therapuetic context.

Ok; as cliched as it might seem, a person can led a horse to the water; but he cannot make it drink. A person can be shown the light, but it is up to the individual to acknowledge the truth.

Swim really digs empiricism; but ultimately, the ancient cultures (and many modern-day seekers of truth) know, acknowledge, and actualize the potentialities (values) of entheogenic psychedelics.

Quantum mechanics has shown that the act of measurement can alter the phenomena, which is being quantified; thus, modern empiricism maybe potentially flawed. Not saying that science is wrong; nevertheless, it is clear that modern empiricism is incomplete.

Man, you have some not-so-good memories of psychedelics, please try to let it go.

The problem with Strassman is that he's probably done the drugs so much that he's eventually come to believe the visions as true.
It's kind of sad for a person who's a psychiatrist to fall for this, but I guess it happens to anybody.

Oh so are you saying that experiencing the phenomena of psychedelics helps a person acknowledge the truth?

Yeah, I am going to have to echo the sentiments by others here. There is no concrete evidence yet that any kind of psychedelic therapy has any serious benefits...yet. If in the future more rigorous research is done into the chemicals and their effects, perhaps some thing will come of it...right now it seems like a lot of wishful thinking by people who value their personal psychedelic experiences and are trying to validate those experiences with science.
I can certainly see psychedelic therapy as being useful, as the main feature of a psychedelic experience is the ability to digest large amounts of thought information in a short period of time, but this can be achieved in ways that don't involve drugs....sure traditional forms of therapy take longer, and aren't as exotic as taking some visionary substance and having your mind literally blown, but then again, they have a proven track record whereas the idea of some magic pill that will fix your mental woes is a bit insulting to the complexity of the brain.
A serious potential role I could see is in the treatment of chemical dependency cases, as was pointed out previously. A main feature of AA/NA treatment is the idea of having a spiritual "awakening" of sorts which drives your recovery:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous
Seeing as how you can reproduce a "spiritual experience" with entheogens they may prove useful....

Sounds pretty fair.

Promising Potential - Medical Possibilities for Psychedelic Drugs (Yensen, 1992)

Early research suggested medical promise for psychedelic drugs. According to a 1992 report by Richard Yensen, Ph.D., and Donna Dryer, M.D., director and medical director at the Orenda Institute, a 1960s' study of 135 alcoholics found that six months after treatment with LSD, 53 percent of a high-dose group reported abstinence compared with 33 percent of a low-dose group. Alcoholics receiving conventional therapy had a 12 percent improvement rate.

http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/features/795_psyche.html

Realize that you may have a hard time acknowledging it; but will still keeping posting relevant articles that I come across

A clinical plan for MDMA (Ecstasy) in the treatment of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD): partnering with the FDA. (Doblin, 2002)

The FDA and the Spanish Ministry of Health have concluded that the risk/benefit ratio is favorable under certain circumstances for clinical studies investigating MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

It is happening; modern empiricism is starting to re-discover our past

Ketamine psychedelic therapy (KPT): a review of the results of ten years of research. (Krupitsky and Grinenko, 1997)

The results of a controlled clinical trial demonstrated a considerable increase in efficacy of the authors' standard alcoholism treatment when supplemented by ketamine psychedelic therapy (KPT)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

^ Increase in efficacy regarding the treatment of alcohol...

Psychedelic medicine: Mind bending, health giving (NewScientist, 2005)

And Halpern is not alone. Clinical trials of psychedelic drugs are planned or under way at numerous centres around the world for conditions ranging from anxiety to alcoholism. It may not be long before doctors are legally prescribing hallucinogens for the first time in decades. "There are medicines here that have been overlooked, that are fundamentally valuable," says Halpern.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel...elic-medicine-mind-bending-health-giving.html

fundamentally valuable - hmmm...

what does that mean

 

[Dancing David]

Um, you haven't really pondered this that long have you. It is not the addiction as adverse that is the basis of my reasoning. It is the scientific method.

The addiction was driven by the serotonin cascage, i can take Zoloft and not have panic.

(BTW: don't presume to teach you Granny to suck eggs, what is my spiritual experiene? Do you know?)

If you just assume that you have the answers then , you are engaging in belief. get back to me after you read and practice another thirty years. As the alleged historical buddha said, don't assume that experiences are equal. They are interdependant (IE based upon contingent history) and unique.

 

[Dancing David]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

I will have to find the paper itself. Did they use a randomized sample matched for demographics?

There are so many questions to ask. Is it a meta analysis, what demographic matching was there?

So far all i have found is that it was a 'review' and that it involved two case studies. Not what i would call 'rigor', perhaps 'tentative' and 'anecdotal'.

So how did the control sample get selected, did the trail involve 100 people. Or is this based upon a biased sample? (In other words there may not have been a randomly sampled and demographicaly matched control group.)

 

[beeksc1]

Um, you haven't really pondered this that long have you. It is not the addiction as adverse that is the basis of my reasoning. It is the scientific method.
The addiction was driven by the serotonin cascage, i can take Zoloft and not have panic.
(BTW: don't presume to teach you Granny to suck eggs, what is my spiritual experiene? Do you know?)
If you just assume that you have the answers then , you are engaging in belief. get back to me after you read and practice another thirty years. As the alleged historical buddha said, don't assume that experiences are equal. They are interdependant (IE based upon contingent history) and unique.

oh
empiricism is incomplete

Swim does not think that you have shared your spiritual experience. If you were up-front, honest, and transparent, you would not be faced with whatever you are feeling. Hopefully, you can share your spiritual insights.

yea and insinuations concerning me having "the answers" are erroneous; they are off-base; oh yea, I am a little versed too...

practice? what clinical?

buddha... right on

Rick Doblin

Based on the results of Dr. Griffiths' 14-month follow-up, and my 25+ year follow-up, it's clear that psychedelic mystical experiences can have beneficial effects, which can in many cases last a lifetime. As Dr. Edwards notes, psychedelics can also produce "self-destructive and suicidal thoughts," a claim that Dr. Griffiths and I agree with. Though there are "other ways to help people," each of these "other ways" have their unique sets of risks and benefits. The risk/benefit ratio of psychedelics administered within a research context fully justifies further research. Rick Doblin, Ph.D. MAPS President (www.maps.org)

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080703/full/news.2008.934.html

commenting on the article:
Benefits of 'magic mushroom' therapy long lasting (Nature)

The benefits for people who have had positive or even mystical experiences induced by the psychedelic drug psilocybin — the psychoactive ingredient in ‘magic mushrooms’ — linger for as much as a year, according to the latest follow-up study of such patients.
The study offers more support to those who argue that, when used responsibly, some drugs more commonly taken for leisure can safely be used to relieve the stress associated with severe chronic diseases such as cancer.

No, the study is not a meta analysis and I did not examine every last word of the journal article; but if Nature is reporting on it, well... yea you know

and anyway the research would be much more developed if the gov't did not shut down psychedelic research in the 60s of 70s

Tim Leary

anyway, the ancients know of the potentials of psychoactives that induce a non-ordinary state of consciousness; modern science is starting to empirically catalogue their uses; Nature is reporting on the benefits of psychedelics

please share your experiences, insights, and your spiritual-perspective; if a person is not fond of other people benefiting from psychedelics, that is fine; but please be respectful and peaceful.

Posting remarks like "don't presume to teach you Granny to suck eggs" is simply uncalled for. Swim thinks the forum rules say something like "be polite and civil"

I know everyone cannot agree on every issue; but we should be agreeable, even if we share a slightly different perspective on a certain topic. even though it might seem cliched, the more a person knows, the more he realizes he does not know.

many of the people who frequent this forum are interested in the perspective of people around the world, so please share your thoughts, feelings, ideas; but please do not thread on others.

Dropping acid may help headaches (Nature)

We need to study the effect of powerful hallucinogens such as LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) and psilocybin, the active ingredient in 'magic' mushrooms, on debilitating cluster headaches, researchers say.
Their study, which points towards the effectiveness of these drugs, is published in the journal Neurology1.

http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060911/full/news060911-05.html

 

[beeksc1]

^ Typo
please do not tread on other people. thank you in advance

sharing a difference of perspective is not a bad thing; diversity

Ecstasy eases Parkinson's in mice (Nature)

The drug ecstasy relieves the symptoms of Parkinson's disease in mice, a team of researchers has found.

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050801/full/news050801-3.html

This study did not involve human patients ; but it is helping to build the case.

 

[Dancing David]

I will do as i please thank you very much. I will tead all i want and when I want.

A bunch of anecdotes does not a system make. You are on some sort of mission. You come to a sceptics bulletin board and make broad sweeps of generalization and then you get miffed.

Look bucko, I am saying that there is no reason to believe that the psychedelic had anything to do with the reported decrease in alleged alcohol use. Do you get that?

I said "don't presume to teach you Granny to suck eggs" because you assume a lot.

When you wish to discuss the relevance of the scattered data you have gathered, then come back to a scepticsd bulletin board.

Have you ever been there for a freak out? I am sure that was a useful experience for the participant, now wasn't it?

i am responding to the lack of rigor in the studies you presented, this called critical discussion of critical thinking.

Welcome to the JREF.

 

[Dancing David]

oh
empiricism is incomplete

Peddle that snake oil someplace else.

Swim does not think that you have shared your spiritual experience. If you were up-front, honest, and transparent, you would not be faced with whatever you are feeling. Hopefully, you can share your spiritual insights.

Um, psychedelia are not needed, they can be useful but also not.

yea and insinuations concerning me having "the answers" are erroneous; they are off-base; oh yea, I am a little versed too...

You are making a case through fact attrition. Do you understand how to disect material?

practice? what clinical?

Spiritual. One path does not fit all.

buddha... right on

Rick Doblin

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080703/full/news.2008.934.html

commenting on the article:
Benefits of 'magic mushroom' therapy long lasting (Nature)

The risk/benefit ratio of psychedelics administered within a research context fully justifies further research.

So they have a tentative theory. I never said that they should not research, just that you haven't demonstrated you claims yet.

No, the study is not a meta analysis and I did not examine every last word of the journal article; but if Nature is reporting on it, well... yea you know

So a review of cases, does not much of a case make. If they were based upon a biased sample and all that...

and anyway the research would be much more developed if the gov't did not shut down psychedelic research in the 60s of 70s

Tim Leary

anyway, the ancients know of the potentials of psychoactives that induce a non-ordinary state of consciousness; modern science is starting to empirically catalogue their uses; Nature is reporting on the benefits of psychedelics

please share your experiences, insights, and your spiritual-perspective; if a person is not fond of other people benefiting from psychedelics, that is fine; but please be respectful and peaceful.

When you come out here making unsupported claims and peddling snake oil, I will call you on it. If you wish to say that there is specific perceived benefit for some people, that is a less sweeping statement than the Rock Candy Mountain you have presented.

I am peaceful, you just are not using critical thinking.

Posting remarks like "don't presume to teach you Granny to suck eggs" is simply uncalled for. Swim thinks the forum rules say something like "be polite and civil"

Go for it, take my post and press the little icon of the exclamation point in the triangle and report me for violating forum rules.

You still haven't demonstrated your claims.

I know everyone cannot agree on every issue; but we should be agreeable, even if we share a slightly different perspective on a certain topic. even though it might seem cliched, the more a person knows, the more he realizes he does not know.

Again you are trying to show me how to suck eggs.

many of the people who frequent this forum are interested in the perspective of people around the world, so please share your thoughts, feelings, ideas; but please do not thread on others.

Dropping acid may help headaches (Nature)

http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060911/full/news060911-05.html

Now see that is a neutral statement, but you should reference the original article, it could be the serotonin cascade and not the psychedelia at all.

http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/12/1920

Does not really say, so it could be that an SSRI would be just as effective.