jimtron
Illuminator
Please do apply and let us know how things are going, if you don't mind. Good luck!
AgingYoung
Muse
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rjh01
That is a very good point. I know that for the most part I accept what people say as fact unless it contradicts something I know to be fact, or until something comes up that's contradictory. In this instance of claiming Jeff said something; I could accept it as fact until Jeff decides to speak for himself.
This is what I find so amazing. There should be little doubt that I’m a first class woo. I could teach up and coming woos how to be excellent woos. Now I don’t see the ability to perceive IR as a paranormal ability. Snakes do it every day!! What I find amazing is that if a woo can see that, why in the world can’t a die hard skeptic see that? I’m amazed.
As I've said Jeff hasn't mentioned his position on this. I'm only going by what Burner said Jeff said. Jeff doesn't owe anyone an explanation but it would be nice to have one.
Gene
That is a very good point. I know that for the most part I accept what people say as fact unless it contradicts something I know to be fact, or until something comes up that's contradictory. In this instance of claiming Jeff said something; I could accept it as fact until Jeff decides to speak for himself.
This is what I find so amazing. There should be little doubt that I’m a first class woo. I could teach up and coming woos how to be excellent woos. Now I don’t see the ability to perceive IR as a paranormal ability. Snakes do it every day!! What I find amazing is that if a woo can see that, why in the world can’t a die hard skeptic see that? I’m amazed.
As I've said Jeff hasn't mentioned his position on this. I'm only going by what Burner said Jeff said. Jeff doesn't owe anyone an explanation but it would be nice to have one.
Gene
Yowsa.
I've been asked to guarantee that this event is paranormal? How the hell can i do that?
The way to test this has been described in this thread. If he can tell when the real remote is being used vs. the one with the batteries reversed, and measures have been taken to ensure that there are no other cues to the devices usage, that sounds paranormal to me.
But.. where is the claim? Where is the sentence that says "I can detect infrared waves through paranormal ability" or "I can sense when an IR remote control is in use in the room because it causes great pain in my leg."
I can tell you now that we would require an affidavit from a doctor.
My gut tells me that the uncle is playing a trick on Burner or that Burner is playing a trick on us.
Burner et al, you are of course free to discuss this on the forum, but I must bow out until an application is received.
I've been asked to guarantee that this event is paranormal? How the hell can i do that?
The way to test this has been described in this thread. If he can tell when the real remote is being used vs. the one with the batteries reversed, and measures have been taken to ensure that there are no other cues to the devices usage, that sounds paranormal to me.
But.. where is the claim? Where is the sentence that says "I can detect infrared waves through paranormal ability" or "I can sense when an IR remote control is in use in the room because it causes great pain in my leg."
I can tell you now that we would require an affidavit from a doctor.
My gut tells me that the uncle is playing a trick on Burner or that Burner is playing a trick on us.
Burner et al, you are of course free to discuss this on the forum, but I must bow out until an application is received.
Burner
Thinker
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- 144
Alright , let's cut the crap. IF A PERSON CAN DETECT IR LIGHT FROM THE REMOTE CONTROL WITH THE _SHRAPNEL_ IN HIS FOOT THAT IS A PARANORMAL CLAIM. Will you at least agree to that?
Before I go out of my way to do more serious strict testing, gather affidavits and get my uncle to send an application I want to know an answer to this question. I can't see how answering this would be harmful for you in any way. Unless you don't know, in which case you should state so.
P.S. And no one is playing a trick on anyone. Stop being so paranoid.
Before I go out of my way to do more serious strict testing, gather affidavits and get my uncle to send an application I want to know an answer to this question. I can't see how answering this would be harmful for you in any way. Unless you don't know, in which case you should state so.
P.S. And no one is playing a trick on anyone. Stop being so paranoid.
jimtron
Illuminator
Burner, why not try the reversed battery test? Or is that too much pain for your uncle? I'm still confused about that issue--is your uncle willing to do extensive testing, even though that could mean lots of pain?
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Burner
Thinker
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I have already explained why reversed battery test is flawed. I will surely test him when I get the chance, as I described above, just to satisfy my own curiosity. Will he apply for 1 mil if he passes the test? Hardly when the guy in charge of applications doesn't know if it's a valid claim or not.
Miss Anthrope
Illuminator
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TheBoyPaj
Graduate Poster
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Jeff said:
Jeff Wagg said:
That means he is willing to look at your claim. But you have not sent Jeff an application yet. I would imagine that is why he is unwilling to be drawn any further. Whether you get tested or not depends on how you proceed from here. Do the right thing, follow the right procedures, and we will all learn something.
If you mess about and get abusive.. well, I guess we'll learn something else.
Burner, if you are indeed serious about getting three affidavits, I suggest consulting medical practitioners, starting with your family doctor.
Perhaps at first, you could explain the situation to him, i.e. the possible claim. Then ask him, if he'd be willing to sign an affidavit, the text of which goes something like this: "I have personally witnessed the phenomenon claimed by "(applicant's name)" in his/her application for the JREF One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, and I can offer no rational explanation for it." from the FAQs, here: http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#4.8
After that, if the doctor is willing to grant your wish, you discuss double blinding with him and of course a way to deal with your uncle's possible pain reaction.
We would in no way want your uncle to suffer. Your uncle has to make that decision for himself.
If I may suggest a wording of your claim: "[Your uncle's name] can detect IR light from any remote control via a pain reaction from shrapnel embedded in his [left or right] foot.
Perhaps at first, you could explain the situation to him, i.e. the possible claim. Then ask him, if he'd be willing to sign an affidavit, the text of which goes something like this: "I have personally witnessed the phenomenon claimed by "(applicant's name)" in his/her application for the JREF One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, and I can offer no rational explanation for it." from the FAQs, here: http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html#4.8
After that, if the doctor is willing to grant your wish, you discuss double blinding with him and of course a way to deal with your uncle's possible pain reaction.
We would in no way want your uncle to suffer. Your uncle has to make that decision for himself.
If I may suggest a wording of your claim: "[Your uncle's name] can detect IR light from any remote control via a pain reaction from shrapnel embedded in his [left or right] foot.
Burner
Thinker
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What would be the point of me testing him, causing him loads of pain, getting affidavits from 3 MDs just to have my application denied since it's NOT PARANORMAL! I doubt it's paranormal, and obviously so do other members on this forum. That's why I need some sort of confirmation. Is that so hard to grasp?
jimtron
Illuminator
On the contrary; Jeff and most others believe that if your uncle can detect the IR from a remote (under controlled, double blind testing), it would be paranormal.
I'll quote Jeff's recent post again:
However, I'd be willing to wager that if you do some proper testing on your own, you'll find that your uncle can't really detect the IR beams from a remote. You could do this without getting affidavits or going to a lot of trouble.
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Since only JREF Representatives can speak on the behalf of JREF, the forum members' posts only reflect individual statements, opinions, hypotheses, etc. Only one JREF Representative has posted in this thread up to this point.
The gist of Jeff Wagg's response, Burner: Your uncle needs to apply. The application form can be found here: http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html
I specifically draw your attention to rule #1, i.e. wording of the claim.
Is that so hard to grasp?
Miss Anthrope
Illuminator
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chran
Muse
Burner, and everybody.
Please calm down. I can see that this is going the way of a lot of other application proposals. The tone gets snippy, and the claim dies.
Let's not do that. This claim is actually interesting, but we're getting bogged down in minutiae.
Double-blind is double-blind is double-blind. Reversed batteries or not, if the test is double-blind the results speak for themselves, right?
Proceed
Please calm down. I can see that this is going the way of a lot of other application proposals. The tone gets snippy, and the claim dies.
Let's not do that. This claim is actually interesting, but we're getting bogged down in minutiae.
Double-blind is double-blind is double-blind. Reversed batteries or not, if the test is double-blind the results speak for themselves, right?
Proceed
Burner, and everybody.
Please calm down. I can see that this is going the way of a lot of other application proposals. The tone gets snippy, and the claim dies.
Let's not do that. This claim is actually interesting, but we're getting bogged down in minutiae.
Double-blind is double-blind is double-blind. Reversed batteries or not, if the test is double-blind the results speak for themselves, right?
Proceed
Agreed.
For the record: My last post only intended to reflect the snippiness of Burner's last post. I did not want to outsnippy him.
Jim_Mich
Scholar
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- Dec 16, 2006
- Messages
- 100
Suggestion
May I make a suggestion?
In order to limit the Uncle's pain, suppose that every quarter hour the remote is aimed at his leg and the button pressed. Before each test the batteries are removed and replaced, usually backwards. But at some point the batteries are replaced normal. When the Uncle senses pain the tests stop until the next day or so. An analysis of the results should quickly show any true correlation. This would keep the Uncle's pain to a known limited maximum. The button can be pressed for a long as is considered necessary by the Uncle and Nephew. After each test the remote is taken to a TV in a nearby room, the TV plugged in and the button pressed to check if it's working. After which the batteries are checked to see if they were reversed or not.
There may be a possibility that a particular chosen test location might have IR signals in or near the area that could cause testing problems. IR signals have become quit common, so the testing location should be chosen with great care with this in mind. A rural location might be best.
May I make a suggestion?
In order to limit the Uncle's pain, suppose that every quarter hour the remote is aimed at his leg and the button pressed. Before each test the batteries are removed and replaced, usually backwards. But at some point the batteries are replaced normal. When the Uncle senses pain the tests stop until the next day or so. An analysis of the results should quickly show any true correlation. This would keep the Uncle's pain to a known limited maximum. The button can be pressed for a long as is considered necessary by the Uncle and Nephew. After each test the remote is taken to a TV in a nearby room, the TV plugged in and the button pressed to check if it's working. After which the batteries are checked to see if they were reversed or not.
There may be a possibility that a particular chosen test location might have IR signals in or near the area that could cause testing problems. IR signals have become quit common, so the testing location should be chosen with great care with this in mind. A rural location might be best.
Because you finished with your woman, 'cause she couldn't help you with your mind?
Because people think you're insane, because you are browning all the time?