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Politicizing hurricane Katrina

corplinx said:
Do you even have the foggiest clue what is going down there? Many of the land based ways into new orleans are down. Many of them have above ground bridges and sections, some go on 1/8 of a mile or more (and guess what, they are toast). There is no logistical flow into New Orleans right now. The problem isn't that we can't get supplies in, the problem is that _people_ _didn't_ _leave_ when they were told New Orleans could be destroyed.
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A lot of those people couldn't get out for a variety of reasons. There are over a million people in the NO area. You would expect a lot of them to be left behind. There were thousands taking refuge in the Superdome before the storm hit. Do you think they didn't want to leave the city if they could? Or that it couldn't be anticipated that a good percentage of the city couldn't get out in time?Are you paying attention?

Your claim that access to the city is the problem is false. Several roads are still open. We are finally seeing convoys going into the city right now. That infrastructure was badly damaged, but not completely destroyed like you seem to think.
 
Screw the helecopters.

We'll go around forever on those.

But it sends the wrong message just the same, and so whoever choreographed two helecopters sitting on the ground should be fired, purely from a message standpoint. So best case scenario it's a PR f*ckup.

Now:


For three posts you've ignored the dozens of Coast Guard standing at attention.

I'm not a pilot. But I know a frigging photo-op when I see one.

Explain why those people have nothing better to do right now than stand at attention for an hour and then shake the president's hand.
 
corplinx said:
Its think its some weird form of PC. Nobody wants to question the lack of due dilligence byt the municipality/state and citizens of New Orleans so instead they go around lieing like this. Yes, this is Dubya lieing. He knew it was going to happen just like anyone else with half a brain.
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In case you missed it corp, you got totally owned in this thread.
 
The good news is -- and it's hard for some to see it now -- that out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic Gulf Coast, like it was before. Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch. (Laughter.)
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Sorry, I just had to re-post that. I saw it on TV and thought I must be hallucinating. I mean, NOBODY could be that crass. NOBODY. I thought.

Last Christmas my cousin gave me a page-a-day desk diary with a Bush verbal gaffe on every page. I was thinking that they'd probably dredged up all the possibles and there wouldn't be one for 2006, but now I'm not so sure. "Nobody imagined the levées would break" is right up there, and now the above. Has the man NO sense?

By the way, the quote for 1st September 2005 was something like "Home is important. Everybody got to have a home."

Er, sure, Dubya. Right on. About a million to go, and counting....

Rolfe.
 
Renfield said:
A lot of those people couldn't get out for a variety of reasons. There are over a million people in the NO area. You would expect a lot of them to be left behind. There were thousands taking refuge in the Superdome before the storm hit. Do you think they didn't want to leave the city if they could? Or that it couldn't be anticipated that a good percentage of the city couldn't get out in time?Are you paying attention?

Your claim that access to the city is the problem is false. Several roads are still open. We are finally seeing convoys going into the city right now. That infrastructure was badly damaged, but not completely destroyed like you seem to think.
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I didn't say it was completely destroyed. You also need to note that the remaining bridges had to be checked out as well to make sure openining them to large convoys wouldn't result in collapse.

As to people not getting out, its a known issue apparently. As I pointed out in another thread New Orleans was working on a "contraflow" evacuation strategy. The strategy worked horribly during Ivan and I doubt poor residents wanted to wait in traffic 11 hours again with gas prices being so high. As more information comes to light, the many reason other than negligence for not leaving are coming to light. Unfortunately, you know that some portion of the people who stayed did so out of negligence.
 
corplinx said:
Point it out because I am still missing it.
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That must explain why you didn't respond to my post.

I thought you were avoiding it out of a deep sense of personal shame.


:p
 
corplinx said:
I didn't say it was completely destroyed. You also need to note that the remaining bridges had to be checked out as well to make sure openining them to large convoys wouldn't result in collapse.

As to people not getting out, its a known issue apparently. As I pointed out in another thread New Orleans was working on a "contraflow" evacuation strategy. The strategy worked horribly during Ivan and I doubt poor residents wanted to wait in traffic 11 hours again with gas prices being so high. As more information comes to light, the many reason other than negligence for not leaving are coming to light. Unfortunately, you know that some portion of the people who stayed did so out of negligence.
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For 5 days people are dying in the streets of an American city, and the best you can come up with is that they were stupid to stick around.

Silicon, there is no shame there.
 
hgc said:
For 5 days people are dying in the streets of an American city, and the best you can come up with is that they were stupid to stick around.

Silicon, there is no shame there.
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Is this the Cindy Sheehan tactic rehashed? If you criticize the city/citizens you are an evil schlock? How dare you criticize the victim? ::yawn::
 
There will and should be many questions about the response of state and local governments; in particular, couldn't they have done more to help the poor and sick escape? But the evidence points, above all, to a stunning lack of both preparation and urgency in the Federal Government's response.

Even military resources in the right place weren't ordered into action. "On Wednesday," said an editorial in The Sun Herald in Biloxi, Mississippi, "reporters listening to horrific stories of death and survival at the Biloxi Junior High School shelter looked north across Irish Hill Road and saw air force personnel playing basketball and performing calisthenics. Playing basketball and performing calisthenics!"

Maybe Bush Administration officials believed that the local National Guard could keep order and deliver relief. But many members of the National Guard and much of its equipment - including high-water vehicles - are in Iraq. "The National Guard needs that equipment back home to support the homeland security mission," a Louisiana Guard officer told reporters several weeks ago.
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http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/new-orleans-the-awful-questions/2005/09/02/1125302737565.html
 
/offtopic slightly


So I have a friend that works fro the Army Coprs of Engineers and there has already been some political buck passing in saying that the Corps didn't do a good enough job on the levvies. Of course what is not said is that they were ordered to only design for a cat 3 hurricaine.

He's livid at that. I would be too.


/return to topic...
 
corplinx said:
Is this the Cindy Sheehan tactic rehashed? If you criticize the city/citizens you are an evil schlock? How dare you criticize the victim? ::yawn::
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You misapprehend me. It's not that you criticize them. It's that you use that as an excuse for why Bush's government is not responsible for an incredibly inept response to a national catastrophe. Regardless of contra-flows and other stupidities, people were stranded in New Orleans from Monday until today before help arrived. If you don't count on the federal government to be able to protect its citizens better under the circumstances, then what have we got a country for in the first place?

Monday until Friday before relief arrives. But let's just point out how stupid dirt-poor people, the sick and other immobile people were for not getting out of town.

And I don't go around calling people evil. It strikes me as childish.
 
zakur said:
There are those who say federal funds badly needed for levee repair and maintenance were significantly reduced (or diverted) to pay for Bush's war in Iraq:

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002331.html

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/08/31/disaster_preparation/index_np.html?x

http://corrente.blogspot.com/2005/08/buhcos-flood-for-oil-leaky-levees-and.html
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More info on this from Factcheck.org: Is Bush to Blame for New Orleans Flooding?
 
hgc said:
You misapprehend me. It's not that you criticize them. It's that you use that as an excuse for why Bush's government is not responsible for an incredibly inept response to a national catastrophe. Regardless of contra-flows and other stupidities, people were stranded in New Orleans from Monday until today before help arrived. If you don't count on the federal government to be able to protect its citizens better under the circumstances, then what have we got a country for in the first place?

Monday until Friday before relief arrives. But let's just point out how stupid dirt-poor people, the sick and other immobile people were for not getting out of town.

And I don't go around calling people evil. It strikes me as childish.
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This is a singular event. There have not been this many people killed by a hurricane since Galvaston in 1900 when over 6,000 died on the island itself. Hell, Katrina might come close to that when all deaths have been counted.
panorama.gif


Dredge material is pumped into the island during the
grade raising after the 1900 hurricane. Residents endured
years of pumps, sludge, canals, stench and miles of catwalks
during the project. Photo courtesy of Rosenberg Library.

graderaising.jpg


If the grade of Galveston Island could be raised after the storm of 1900 with primitive construction methods....why can't NOLA be raised and rebuilt? Answer; it can and will be. In a shorter time frame too.

Post-storm rebuilding considered Galvaston's finest hour
 
hgc said:

Monday until Friday before relief arrives. But let's just point out how stupid dirt-poor people, the sick and other immobile people were for not getting out of town.

And I don't go around calling people evil. It strikes me as childish.
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You've ignored where I remarked that the elderly, sick, handicapped cannot be faulted for staying in town. Childish? Physician, heal thyself.
 
Silicon said:
Watch this clip of Michael Brown, the head of FEMA on nightline


http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Nightline-Fema.mov




Another guy who needs to f*cking turn on CNN, apparantly. Jesus.


Before Bush hired him into FEMA he was an estate planning lawyer in Colorado and council for the International Arabian Horse Association Legal Department.

Glad to see he has zero qualifications.
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The number of retired generals the US would have, who would have actual experience in what is needed in a situation like this, must be huge. Yet they put a know nothing hack in to head a critical agency that has peoples lives depending on a rapid and correct response.
 
fowlsound said:
/offtopic slightly


So I have a friend that works fro the Army Coprs of Engineers and there has already been some political buck passing in saying that the Corps didn't do a good enough job on the levvies. Of course what is not said is that they were ordered to only design for a cat 3 hurricaine.

He's livid at that. I would be too.


/return to topic...
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Not to mention that they were created around the turn of the last century. Which administration do we blame in the last 100 years for not upgrading the levees to withstand a 4 or 5 hurricane?
 
Renfield said:
"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

When the prez makes statements like that, I think its hard to blame people for criticizing his leadership. Sorry.
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Do you ever check facts first before making claim?

From factcheck.org.......

Nobody anticipated breach of the levees?

In an interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America” on September 1, President Bush said:

Bush: I don’t think anyone anticipated breach of the levees …Now we’re having to deal with it, and will.

Bush is technically correct that a "breach" wasn't anticipated by the Corps, but that's doesn't mean the flooding wasn't forseen. It was. But the Corps thought it would happen differently, from water washing over the levees, rather than cutting wide breaks in them.

Greg Breerword, a deputy district engineer for project management with the Army Corps of Engineers, told the New York Times:

Breerword: We knew if it was going to be a Category 5, some levees and some flood walls would be overtopped. We never did think they would actually be breached.
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As usual, the Bush bashers like Renfield, HGC and silicon will end up getting embarrassed and "getting owned' by conservative facts and logic.
 
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