Police Shooting Frenzy Raises Concerns

[The Norseman]

They absolutely do, and they're absolutely human.

I'm not making any excuses for excessive force or for the unlawful use of force (at any level from simply physical restraining to lethal) but even LEO's actions in the heat of the moment are viewed through the "reasonable man" standard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person

Does that mean a LEO can observe an individual spit on the sidewalk and empty a few magazines full on them and not face prosecution?

No.

Does that mean that in the aftermath of an incident where a suspect fires on an officer or when an officer is actually involved in actively defending themselves from lethal attack and the after-the-fact examination of the situation calls into question the actions of the officer(s) involved they are expected to err on the side of caution rather than their survival?

No.

Yes. They are ******** well expected to err on the side of caution. That's the ******* job -- the rights of the people take precedence period. They get paid to do the job and the job is hazardous, sometimes dangerous. And? Hey, if they can't take it, there are men and women who can do the job regardless of the personal danger. Firefighters do it. Soldiers do it. What makes cops so different that they can't hack it?

Those cops there that night were cowards, pure and simple.

None of us posting in this thread know all the facts wrt this particular case, and all I've done here is try to explain how agencies and individuals usually proceed in instances such as this. How someone could view it as defending the alleged actions I don't know, but understanding something and believing that it's a good outcome can be two entirely different things and in this incident for that's the reality for me - I trained a lot of officers over the years and incidents like this are one of my worst nightmares.

The fact that to me it's a nightmare doesn't mean I don't understand how it can happen.

No matter my tone in these threads, it's never against you and I do appreciate your candor and willingness to inform us all.

 

[3point14]

They absolutely do, and they're absolutely human.

So the facts not in evidence I was assuming were..?

 

[gnome]

23 officers shooting 377 rounds is basically one magazine each, isn't it?

The real question is whether they were in a shooting situation. If it's agreed that they were, emptying one magazine each doesn't seem so absurd.

I don't think the number of bullets fired is telling in this case. The circumstances as can best be known seem more important.

 

[Corsair 115]

23 officers shooting 377 rounds is basically one magazine each, isn't it?

The math works out thusly: 377 rounds divided by 23 officers equals 16.4 rounds fired by each officer (on average). Sixteen rounds each? There was a time when most police officers expected to never fire even a single round in the line of duty during their career.

 

[jj]

Anytime you mix weapons and fear and adrenaline, mistakes get made. It's not unique to LEO's.

So, so true. Doesn't excuse it, though.

 

[Bob001]

23 officers shooting 377 rounds is basically one magazine each, isn't it?

The real question is whether they were in a shooting situation. If it's agreed that they were, emptying one magazine each doesn't seem so absurd.
.....

They didn't know who they were shooting at or why. Some of the cops shot other cops. Bullets went through houses where babies were sleeping. The occupants of the crashed car were unarmed and trapped. One of them had nothing to do with the crime the other was wanted for.

It's hard to agree that they were in "a shooting situation." And why would emptying a magazine x23 be smart tactics?

 

[Newtons Bit]

Anytime you mix weapons and fear and adrenaline, mistakes get made. It's not unique to LEO's.

A "mistake" of this type is known as manslaughter.

 

[gnome]

They didn't know who they were shooting at or why. Some of the cops shot other cops. Bullets went through houses where babies were sleeping. The occupants of the crashed car were unarmed and trapped. One of them had nothing to do with the crime the other was wanted for.

It's hard to agree that they were in "a shooting situation."

That's a much better argument than focusing on the number of rounds, which is my point.

And why would emptying a magazine x23 be smart tactics?

I didn't say anything about smart--but it's not like all 23 of them took a minute to decide who would shoot and who wouldn't. The other case I recall where the number of rounds seemed high was also one with multiple officers shooting one magazine full each.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

These kinds of incidents though not common are not unheard of. When you get a large group of LEOs facing a suspect considered armed and dangerous, one that has already shot an officer, everyone is on edge. It's the fog of combat.

In this case I'd say it was less of a fog and more of a red mist.

 

[fuelair]

In this case I'd say it was less of a fog and more of a red mist.

I don't know what the problem is, but every time I see your picture and look at someone else's post I forget all about yours until I accidentally see it again.....?