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Police Shooting Frenzy Raises Concerns

Its sheer luck they didn't hit any of the residents.
 
They did manage to ping two of their own! One grazed on the head.
 
Don't forget to mention that the driver of the car had already shot at a security guard and at police, hitting an officer. The police had no way of knowing that he was now unarmed.

Now, the actual reaction of the police. Holy crap, the second round of gun fire was when they were trying to put their hands up. And crossfire? What's that?

I personally don't care if police put 400 rounds in a suspect that has shot at officers before and is resisting. But a) make sure they have a chance to surrender peacefully. and b) don't shoot unless you actually have a clear shot. I really hope that a good number of people lose their jobs over this.
 
They shoot a guy unconnected with the crime, though presumably known to the perp.

Doesn't inspire confidence in how they might deal with a hostage situation.
 
RussDill said:
Don't forget to mention that the driver of the car had already shot at a security guard and at police, hitting an officer. The police had no way of knowing that he was now unarmed.

Now, the actual reaction of the police. Holy crap, the second round of gun fire was when they were trying to put their hands up. And crossfire? What's that?

I personally don't care if police put 400 rounds in a suspect that has shot at officers before and is resisting. But a) make sure they have a chance to surrender peacefully. and b) don't shoot unless you actually have a clear shot. I really hope that a good number of people lose their jobs over this.
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Yeah, but what if they let loose 401 rounds, what then, huh? Chaos is what!

What is the upper limit for a suspect who has only shot at a mere civilian, hmm?

What if they surrender but not very peacefully....... well?

Not as straight forward as you thought, eh? Dispense with tons of ordinance in the general direction of the suspect and clear things up later seems to be an easier option.

;)
 
I was prepared for the phrase "shooting frenzy" in the headline to be overblown. Apparently not.
 
bluesjnr said:
Yeah, but what if they let loose 401 rounds, what then, huh? Chaos is what!

What is the upper limit for a suspect who has only shot at a mere civilian, hmm?

What if they surrender but not very peacefully....... well?

Not as straight forward as you thought, eh? Dispense with tons of ordinance in the general direction of the suspect and clear things up later seems to be an easier option.

;)
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jeez, 401 rounds had not occurred to me. Also, what if its a retired police officer who is now a civilian, what does that even mean?
 
bluesjnr said:
They did manage to ping two of their own! One grazed on the head.
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And two of them suffered ruptured ear drums. I think we need to reevaluate how the academies are training these cops.

Steve S
 
It's been my experience in speaking with officers after OIS incidents that they are unable to determine immediately that they've stopped a threat until the threat goes down.

Many officers and others have been conditioned by a lifetime of popular fiction depiction that when an individual is hit by gunfire the individual has an immediate and dramatic reaction to the impact - in the real world experience the officer fires his weapon, sees no reaction from the target, and proceeds as if their fire is ineffective and will continue to fire until they observe the target go down.

After the fact the post mortem examination shows that the subject was hit multiple times, with several individual wounds that in themselves would have caused the death of the subject.

In this particular example, the subjects were inside a vehicle and that could easily lead to confusion as to the effectiveness of their fire - standard issue pistol rounds in any of the popular issue calibers aren't the best choice for effectiveness after having penetrated vehicle body parts or auto glass. It could well be that no officer had good eyes on the interior and they went for quantity of fire over quality.

The loss of life of the uninvolved passenger isn't a good outcome, and the fact that no weapon was found on the scene is going to figure into the sure to come civil actions, but this shooting doesn't sound so out-of-character given that the suspect had fired on another officer earlier.

LEO's everywhere tend to take it personal when someone shoots at them.
 
BStrong said:
It's been my experience in speaking with officers after OIS incidents that they are unable to determine immediately that they've stopped a threat until the threat goes down.

Many officers and others have been conditioned by a lifetime of popular fiction depiction that when an individual is hit by gunfire the individual has an immediate and dramatic reaction to the impact - in the real world experience the officer fires his weapon, sees no reaction from the target, and proceeds as if their fire is ineffective and will continue to fire until they observe the target go down.

After the fact the post mortem examination shows that the subject was hit multiple times, with several individual wounds that in themselves would have caused the death of the subject.

In this particular example, the subjects were inside a vehicle and that could easily lead to confusion as to the effectiveness of their fire - standard issue pistol rounds in any of the popular issue calibers aren't the best choice for effectiveness after having penetrated vehicle body parts or auto glass. It could well be that no officer had good eyes on the interior and they went for quantity of fire over quality.

The loss of life of the uninvolved passenger isn't a good outcome, and the fact that no weapon was found on the scene is going to figure into the sure to come civil actions, but this shooting doesn't sound so out-of-character given that the suspect had fired on another officer earlier.

LEO's everywhere tend to take it personal when someone shoots at them.
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TL;DR LEO's are unprofessional and poorly trained hot-heads.

The way things are going with SWAT teams raiding the wrong houses, civil asset forfeiture and police brutality, the police are just becoming another gang the public should do its best to avoid. I'm sorry more police weren't hit in the crossfire.
 
3point14 said:
That's not just LEO's, that's everyone. LEO's are supposed to be able to deal with it a little better though.
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Assuming facts not in evidence.

It's generally accepted that in shooting at LEO's, the shooter is going to come to a bad end.

California State AG Kamala Harris did serious harm to herself politically when she was the S.F. D.A. and refused to seek the death penalty on the convicted gang member that murdered officer Isaac Espinoza:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FATAL-ENCOUNTER-Officer-Isaac-Espinoza-and-2716770.php
 
BStrong said:
Assuming facts not in evidence.

It's generally accepted that in shooting at LEO's, the shooter is going to come to a bad end.

California State AG Kamala Harris did serious harm to herself politically when she was the S.F. D.A. and refused to seek the death penalty on the convicted gang member that murdered officer Isaac Espinoza:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FATAL-ENCOUNTER-Officer-Isaac-Espinoza-and-2716770.php
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Be wonderful if she can never find another job.
 
BStrong said:
Assuming facts not in evidence.

It's generally accepted that in shooting at LEO's, the shooter is going to come to a bad end.
California State AG Kamala Harris did serious harm to herself politically when she was the S.F. D.A. and refused to seek the death penalty on the convicted gang member that murdered officer Isaac Espinoza:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/FATAL-ENCOUNTER-Officer-Isaac-Espinoza-and-2716770.php
Click to expand...

However it is better if the innocent inhabitants of the neighbourhood are not shot because the suspects car crashed into a local garden.

I'd also go out on a limb and say that shooting other police officers whilst trying to shoot a suspect is bad form.
 
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