Police handcuffing 5-year-old

[crimresearch]

"...You are welcome. To my experience policemen and women might me undereducated and underprivileged but most of the times the sight of a kid can soften them, a white child for sure. I haven't observed the same sensitivity for gypsy children ( I mention gypsies because I have repeatedly represented them in court) but maybe I haven't seen enough policemen on duty during the 10 years that I practice criminal law and you have more exprerience in this field."

What does practicing criminal law have to do with you making an appeal to authority on the education, training, and policies of police?

 

[CFLarsen]

No win situation. Then we would be talking about how this girl was forcebly locked up and why couldn't the administrators care enough to talk to this girl and deal with the situation.

Absolutely wrong.

The girl was forcibly locked up in the principal's office, and the administrators had already given up dealing with the situation - which is why they called the cops.

Try again.

 

[Kodiak]

Because the kid was tiny. If a police officer or a teacher hugged her tighly she wouldn't be able to move.

That's a no-no which can result in suffocation and/or broken ribs for the kid, and a kick to the groin or bite to the face for the adult.

 

[CFLarsen]

while simultaneously avoiding any questions directed at him?

Demonstrably false.

 

[Cleopatra]

What does practicing criminal law have to do with you making an appeal to authority on the education, training, and policies of police?

I don't make an appeal to authority and I chose my words carefully in order not to give that impression. I have just stated my experience that doesn't constitute an authority.

Since this is the only part of my post that you chose to comment may I pressume that you agree with the rest of it?

 

[Kodiak]

Demonstrably false.

An admitted exaggeration, but you get the point...

 

[Cleopatra]

That's a no-no which can result in suffocation and/or broken ribs for the kid, and a kick to the groin or bite to the face for the adult.

It might be but it might be not.Which scenario you consider more probable?

We won't know because in this case we don't know if such an attempt was made from the part of the teachers.Don't you think that risking to be kicked by a tiny little **** worths the pain?

 

[RandFan]

To my experience policemen and women might me undereducated and underprivileged but most of the times the sight of a kid can soften them, a white child for sure. I haven't observed the same sensitivity for gypsy children ( I mention gypsies because I have repeatedly represented them in court) but maybe I haven't seen enough policemen on duty during the 10 years that I practice criminal law and you have more exprerience in this field.

I am not an expert. I have only my experience with my own children and two years as a counselor in a youth correction facility. I would defer to those who are experts.

It's seem that the Law aknowledges that the whole procedure of arresting and trialing a minor might have significant affects on him/her that's why it describes in details the procedure and that's why the trials of minors are not public.

According to my knowledge the effect of psychological traumas might need some time in order to be evident, this is what Law believes so that's why the Law provides for minors, in order to avoid future psychological traumas.

Agreed.

It is significant for two reasons. First it determines the nature of the potential offender.A detainee that wasn't handcuffed during his arrest uses this fact as a card in his defense. The Law aknowledges that putting handcuffs is apart from necessary ( sometimes) a humiliating process. That's why in a trial you often hear to the defense complaining to the judge that the accused "has been handcuffed as a common criminal".

Lawyers will complain about anything. I'm not to impressed with this line of logic but I don't know enough to simply dismiss it.

Because the kid was tiny. If a police officer or a tecaher hugged her tighly she wouldn't be able to move. If he spoke to her softly she would eventually stop if she wasn't mentally ill.
Trust me. It works. I do it all the time with my black 8 month old dog.

Assumptive and anecdotal

I have a vague memory of some reports of Amnesty International
regrading police brutality and minorities
http://www.rightsforall.amnesty.org/what/appeals/police.htm

I don't accept that in this case. There is no corroborating evidence. People of color are arrested all of the time. Taken to its logical conclusion all of those arrests are race related.

I don't have any reason to doubt your perception of events. I think that you have kids. Do you believe that if you were an observant of the scene and you decided to take action and take the kid in your arms you would fail to stop her?

When I was a counselor such actions were expressly forbidden. I can see such actions to be very problematic. If this had been done instead I can see us discussing the inappropriate and abusive actions of the teachers today instead of the police. This really is a no win situations. Anything was likely to bring a law suit and the sad fact is that it was the actions of the girl that precipitated this event.

I have questionned kids in court, kids that have been subjected to sexual abuse and a forensic psychiatrist has told me once that the trick with the kids is the tight hug, especially with tiny kids.Of course in order to hug a kid you have not be disgusted by the fact that it's black or gypsy.

I find this to be unsubstantiated.

If a 35 years old childless litigator knows that, I have difficulty to believe that an American teacher, trained in an American colleage doesn't know that.

Sorry, I don't find any useful argument in this statement.

In that case I apologize and to be honest your fierce attempt to rationalize the whole scene makes me believe that you were genuinely disturbed.

I would not characterize it that way at all. It was a bit troubling.

I totally agree with you and I stated it from the beginning but both of us saw the same video. Imagine that both of us were members of the same jury. Doesn't this sound interesting?

I agree, yes.

The following comment might be taken as a cheap one but please don't take it as such and give me at least the benefit of the doubt. I have read the posts of your son. Certainly a smart kid that would make a difference even in the worse kind of school.

Schools though RandFan are important mostly for the underprivileged, the poor and the infants of illiterate or problematic parents. That scene depicts a badly functioning system and as a citizen you should feel outraged. Plato said that the educated and the priviled have the obligation to fight for the rights of those who don't know that they have them.

I'm sorry but I find this unfounded and speculative.

Yes it was but it was my way to show my disturbance.

I am often rhetorical so it was just my way of being the pot calling the kettle... maybe I should use a different metaphor.

 

[Mycroft]

I can't believe the arrogance of your posts. You don't have kids yourself, you probably don't have much experience dealing with kids, yet you claim that "your solution" is the one that would have worked...

Absolutely!

One thing I've learned as a Dad is that kids are different and respond differently. There is no one magic solution that works in every situation.

 

[crimresearch]

You think it is a good idea to take a five year old (bodily, if necessary) having a destructive temper tantrum to another room, and leave her there, unsupervised? What if she hurt herself?

I can't believe the arrogance of your posts. You don't have kids yourself, you probably don't have much experience dealing with kids, yet you claim that "your solution" is the one that would have worked. You don't know this kid. You don't know what she would have responded to. Yet you pronounce that you are right, the professionals are wrong, and that the other posters here are just upset at you for proposing a non-violent solution.

Oh, don't forget,Claus has already assured us that there was nothing medically wrong with this child...

Too bad the professionals on the scene with first hand knowledge, didn't have Claus to advise them to lock the kid in a closet.

Or maybe he imagines that schools are full of comfortable and soothing rooms which are unoccupied, and perfectly safe?

How do you say Εδώ είναι μια απόλαυση για σας in Danish?

 

[CFLarsen]

I am not an expert.

If you are not an expert, why do you think you are entitled to tell people that they are wrong?

 

[crimresearch]

I don't make an appeal to authority and I chose my words carefully in order not to give that impression. I have just stated my experience that doesn't constitute an authority.

Since this is the only part of my post that you chose to comment may I pressume that you agree with the rest of it?

Since you are dodging *my* questions, may I assume that you agree that you are unable to answer?

 

[Kodiak]

It might be but it might be not.Which scenario you consider more probable?

We won't know because in this case we don't know if such an attempt was made from the part of the teachers.Don't you think that risking to be kicked by a tiny little **** worths the pain?

Cuffing her is safer and more reasonable given the situation.

 

[CFLarsen]

Oh, don't forget,Claus has already assured us that there was nothing medically wrong with this child...

Too bad the professionals on the scene with first hand knowledge, didn't have Claus to advise them to lock the kid in a closet.

Or maybe he imagines that schools are full of comfortable and soothing rooms which are unoccupied, and perfectly safe?

How do you say Εδώ είναι μια απόλαυση για σας in Danish?

I find it perpetually fascinating why people, who claim to have me on ignore, seem to find it impossible to stop commenting on my posts...

Is it "Opposite Day" or something?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Demonstrably false.

In that case, kindly answer my question. You claim there was physical harm to the child. I asked you for details. What was the physical harm? You haven't answered yet, and someone else asked you the same question, which you also ignored.

 

[RandFan]

Who?

I am looking for the information but don't have it yet. I watched only an hour ago. If they don't post it to their website today I will try and call Good Morning America.

 

[TragicMonkey]

If you are not an expert, why do you think you are entitled to tell people that they are wrong?

Why do you think you're entitled to tell those teachers that they are wrong? Are you an expert?

 

[RandFan]

Absolutely wrong.

The girl was forcibly locked up in the principal's office, and the administrators had already given up dealing with the situation - which is why they called the cops.

Try again.

Not my understanding from watching the video tape but I could be wrong. Could you show this? In any event then why did you offer your "solution"? And I'm not at all convinced that this still would not have made the airwaves and people would want to know why this girl was {gasp} locked in the principles office?

 

[jj]

Davefoc is disturbed only when he sees Israeli soldiers arresting Palestinian militants(---> please note my kindness, I refer to militants and not to terrorits).

Is this or is this not a classical example of an ad-hominem attack?

 

[RandFan]

Demonstrably false.

Actually no, you have ignored questions and posts. THAT is demonstrable.