Police handcuffing 5-year-old

[Tmy]

Id like to know just how people wouldve handled the situation. Apparently the right thing to do would be to let the kid go on with her rampage in the hopes that she would eventually tire herself out and take a nap before causing too much damage.

 

[RandFan]

Id like to know just how people wouldve handled the situation. Apparently the right thing to do would be to let the kid go on with her rampage in the hopes that she would eventually tire herself out and take a nap before causing too much damage.

And you can be damned certain that had she hurt herself breaking something then every one would be asking "was it really so difficult to restrain a 5 year old?"

 

[Mycroft]

I saw the video and I don't necessarily think there was any choice in the matter. The child could easily have been restrained by 'holding' her arms behind her...at a distance to prevent getting kicked...but, unless the adult was willing to bruise the child, this was probably the safest, most prudent way to handle the situation.

I'm with you on this one. I don't understand the objection.

From the article, the child had been allowed to continue its tantrum for more than an hour. The astonishing thing here isn't that the police were called and placed the child in handcuffs, but that all the other adults at the school couldn't figure out a way to restrain the child much earlier.

The child was not harmed by handcuffs. The child was not spanked or subject to any corporeal punnishment. What exactly is the objection?

 

[crimresearch]

Good luck getting an answer on that one.

Notice that if a minimum wage orderly in a medical facility restrains a kid, it is considered part of 'treatment'.

But when someone in a police uniform restrains a child to prevent injury, it is 'outrageous'.

Why is it outrageous?

Are police handcuffs 'evil?

Was the outcome harmful?

Would allowing the behavior to continue have been better?

And the woos say:
"..........................................................chirp..............chirp..............".

 

[Mycroft]

That's fine. Answer this one: Do you think it was justified in this case?

Yes.

I can think of a lot of different ways the situation could have been handled, but I don't see anything wrong with the way it was handled.

Can you tell us what you think is wrong with handcuffing the child?

Can you tell us what you would have done instead?

 

[wahrheit]

@Shera (and RandFan was asking too, I think): I called my sister-in-law, she teaches first graders, age 6+.

If they had an unruly kid like this, first they would bring it to the principal, to keep it away from class, other kids etc., a room to calm down or where there's nothing to destroy etc.

Then they'd call the parents of the kid to pick her up and get her out of school. That's how 99% of those incidents end.

Next step, if this happens repeatedly, the kid would get banned from school.

In severe cases, the principal would call the police. But not "normal" cops are allowed to come, only specially trained "youth police" (my humble verbatim translation) officers. They are pedagogically trained to deal with (criminal) kids of that age.

Anyway, I don't think it's a good idea to make this a country-specific issue, at least, I never implied that. I am concerned about the means to educate our kids, and I don't think a bunch of gruff cops with handcuffs is what we should strive for.

 

[RandFan]

Good luck getting an answer on that one.

Notice that if a minimum wage orderly in a medical facility restrains a kid, it is considered part of 'treatment'.

But when someone in a police uniform restrains a child to prevent injury, it is 'outrageous'.

Why is it outrageous?

Are police handcuffs 'evil?

Was the outcome harmful?

Would allowing the behavior to continue have been better?

And the woos say:
"..........................................................chirp..............chirp..............".

Asked but not answered. The emperor isn't wearing any clothes. We are just supposed to all agree that this is outrageous.

 

[Mycroft]

Asked but not answered. The emperor isn't wearing any clothes. We are just supposed to all agree that this is outrageous.

Think of the children.

 

[crimresearch]

In severe cases, the principal would call the police. But not "normal" cops are allowed to come, only specially trained "youth police" (my humble verbatim translation) officers. They are pedagogically trained to deal with (criminal) kids of that age.

Thanks for addressing the issues here with some actual information...as noted, that sort of contribution to the discourse is becoming rare around here, and yours is appreciated.

I've only seen the video once, and am unsure of how it was edited, but there did seem to me to be a great potential for that child to make sudden, destructive movements that could have injured her in that room full of hard and sharp objects. And self injury is not unheard of in out of control children.

I understand your concern that a police 'beat down' would have been inappropriate, but again, going by what I saw on the video, those cops used steady pulling force and then manipulated her into a position where she was upright and faced into a table.

No yanking, no hitting, no kicking, no pain compliance, no piling on, no running around the room, no screaming of commands...
Basically nothing to indicate that those cops were *not* well trained to handle emotionally disturbed children, or that they *didn't* observe good procedures..and the outcome would seem to support that.

 

[RandFan]

Think of the children.

Yeah, I forgot, the children.

 

[RandFan]

@Shera (and RandFan was asking too, I think): I called my sister-in-law, she teaches first graders, age 6+.

If they had an unruly kid like this, first they would bring it to the principal, to keep it away from class, other kids etc., a room to calm down or where there's nothing to destroy etc.

Then they'd call the parents of the kid to pick her up and get her out of school. That's how 99% of those incidents end.

Next step, if this happens repeatedly, the kid would get banned from school.

In severe cases, the principal would call the police. But not "normal" cops are allowed to come, only specially trained "youth police" (my humble verbatim translation) officers. They are pedagogically trained to deal with (criminal) kids of that age.

Anyway, I don't think it's a good idea to make this a country-specific issue, at least, I never implied that. I am concerned about the means to educate our kids, and I don't think a bunch of gruff cops with handcuffs is what we should strive for.

Thank you, while I'm not convinced that the actions on the part of the police were egregious I do think it was perhaps unnecessary. I say "perhaps". I was not there. Barring any harm to the child I don't see any cause for concern beyond a review of school and police procedures.

 

[kimiko]

The child could easily have been restrained by 'holding' her arms behind her...at a distance to prevent getting kicked...but, unless the adult was willing to bruise the child, this was probably the safest, most prudent way to handle the situation.

Sometimes it is necessary to restrain special ed students if they act in a way that could hurt themselves or other students. You are supposed to approach them from behind, wrap your arms around theirs to restrict their movement, pull the child close to your body, then sit down. They can't move much, and won't be able to hurt anyone. When they calm down, they are released. It doesn't hurt them; it's a very gentle restraint, but I can see why some school districts would be afraid of any kind of physical contact between teachers and aides and the kids. Holding the kid away from you is more likely to hurt them.

I think the "discipline" of following the child around the room, without being able to touch her to stop her from destroying things is ridiculous, and reinforced her misbehavior with attention. They need a different policy for acting out like that.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by kimiko
I think the "discipline" of following the child around the room, without being able to touch her to stop her from destroying things is ridiculous, and reinforced her misbehavior with attention. They need a different policy for acting out like that.

I agree. It seems likely the necessity of the police restraining the child with handcuffs is a likely result of an inability to deal with the problem appropriately earlier.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Is it wrong of me to wonder why the mother couldn't arrive until an hour and fifteen minutes later? I hope it was because she was at work an hour and fifteen minutes away, and not for a trivial reason. And what about the father?

 

[wahrheit]

Is it wrong of me to wonder why the mother couldn't arrive until an hour and fifteen minutes later? I hope it was because she was at work an hour and fifteen minutes away, and not for a trivial reason. And what about the father?

That's exactly what I wondered, as well, or better said, what my sister-in-law was asking me (see my previous post), because to her it would be the normal thing to happen: kid is an ass, parents are called to pick it up. Something went definitely wrong in this case.

 

[Kaylee]

@Shera (and RandFan was asking too, I think): I called my sister-in-law, she teaches first graders, age 6+.

If they had an unruly kid like this, first they would bring it to the principal, to keep it away from class, other kids etc., a room to calm down or where there's nothing to destroy etc.

Then they'd call the parents of the kid to pick her up and get her out of school. That's how 99% of those incidents end.

Next step, if this happens repeatedly, the kid would get banned from school.

That sounds like a good solution Wahrheit. And perhaps also kindergartners could be restrained the way Kimoko suggested for special ed students:

In severe cases, the principal would call the police. But not "normal" cops are allowed to come, only specially trained "youth police" (my humble verbatim translation) officers. They are pedagogically trained to deal with (criminal) kids of that age.

For all the reasons Crimresearch suggested, the police officers probably were trained to handle children. I think its also important to take into account that in the States some people are quick to sue -- and that may have been one of the reasons the officers hand cuffed the little girl. If they had relied on physically restraining her with their hands while walking to the car, the chances may have increased for her to end up injured, especially since at times she was acting so out of control.

Anyway, I don't think it's a good idea to make this a country-specific issue, at least, I never implied that.

You're right. I didn't mean to be politically incorrect … but I was genuinely curious if European countries had a different policy in place. I've read that the USA does have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world and presumably that is due to causal reasons. No reason why folks can't figure out a better way… if possible.

I had thought that perhaps this story and others like it meant that corporeal punishment should be brought back to the schools for extreme cases. But it seems like a combination of your sister-in-law's and Kimoko's approaches would work better. I'm glad you both posted!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Without thorough knowledge of the circumstances it is difficult to assess this situation.

That being said, I wonder if the visual of handcuffs on a child strikes some as excessive -- not because it was, but because we generally only see them being applied to the most criminal elements, both in real life as well as fictional portrayals.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally posted by crimresearch to another poster
...Thanks for addressing the issues here with some actual information...as noted, that sort of contribution to the discourse is becoming rare around here, and yours is appreciated...

Physician heal thyself.

 

[RandFan]

Without thorough knowledge of the circumstances it is difficult to assess this situation.

That being said, I wonder if the visual of handcuffs on a child strikes some as excessive -- not because it was, but because we generally only see them being applied to the most criminal elements, both in real life as well as fictional portrayals.

Yes.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I haven't read the entire thread, so hope I'm not repeating too much.
How much are the teachers allowed to do in that case? Maybe they weren't allowed to touch the kid at all, and were following "standard procedure".

In the first video the kid hit the teachers and broke things. In the second video the kid is trying to rip things off the walls and the teacher does grab her hands. This is not a tiny kid either. The refuses to sit down or stop throwing things on the floor. She throws punches constantly. When restrained she kicks. Then she gets up on furniture. They say repeatedly in the background that nobody is allowed to touch the kd. The office is a mess.

When the cops get there, one says "do you remember me?" Then says something about telling the mom about the handcuffs before.
I'm thinking they are just following through on a previous promise. It certainly did the kid no harm. The kid didn't even sit down until the cops got there. Too little too late kid.

I don't see what the big deal is. Somebody needs to consequence the kids, and apparently the teachers aren't allowed to do anything.

At my son's school there is a time out room. I don't think that school had any such thing. The only thing in the time out room is a chair. It's bare walls.

Until the teachers are allowed to do anything about a kid that is running around breaking things and hitting teachers, then what are they to do? Just pat her on the head and send her home with mommy when mommy finally shows up? I'm glad the cops were at least allowed to consequence the kid with something already promised.