Police handcuffing 5-year-old

[CFLarsen]

It really is not easy to tell. Justified? As I said I could be persuaded that it was unnecassary but as it stands I'm not certain. More importantly I don't see any reason for outrage.

In any event, why do I always have to answer all of the question? Can't anyone answer mine?

Stop whining. It is not a question of you "always" having to "answer all of the questions". Don't play a persecuted victim here. You are simply evading the issue, in favor of your imagined one.

Why don't you address reality instead? A 5-year old was handcuffed. That's reality.

Please deal with that. Don't create a diversion.

 

[RandFan]

I worked as a counselor for The Utah Boys Ranch for a couple of years. We had specific policies for dealing such circumstances. Calling police to restrain a child that would not comply was one of those policies. I did it once and in that situation the police used handcuffs. The child was 9 or 10 if I remember correctly. It seems appropriate. Police have a very limited number of actions they can take in such situations. This girl was clearly non-compliant. I will concede that she was sitting in a chair at the time of the incident. I need to know the thought process of the police to make a decision as to whether it was necessary. But no one has offered any reason for outrage as far as I can see.

 

[CFLarsen]

Was she upset cause she was cuffed Or where the cuffs hurthing her?? Ifthey were hurting her thats one thing.

If she was just upset about being cuffed. To f'n bad. People get cuffed all the time even when they arent a danger. Bratty kids shoudl learn that there are consequences to actions.

According to the reports, she was calm when the officers arrived.

Judging from that, do you think it was justified?

 

[RandFan]

Stop whining. It is not a question of you "always" having to "answer all of the questions". Don't play a persecuted victim here. You are simply evading the issue, in favor of your imagined one.

This is very simple. You DON'T answer questions. I have honestly answered yours and AGAIN you have not answered mine. YOU are the one making a diversion. I'm not playing persecuted victim I'm tired of folks like you and Brown attacking me for simply being a skeptic.

Demonstrable Facts:

• I asked a question.
  
• You answered with a question.
  
• I answered your question.
  
• You have not answered mine.

Why is that?

Why don't you address reality instead? A 5-year old was handcuffed. That's reality.

Yeah, and? Why won't you answer the questions? What is the problem with it?

Look, if there is a problem then can't you state what it is?

Please deal with that. Don't create a diversion.

You are the one creating the diversion. I have asked an honest question. Why won't you answer it?

 

[TragicMonkey]

According to the reports, she was calm when the officers arrived.

Judging from that, do you think it was justified?

And according to the reports, she also calmed down at least one time, (possibly twice, it's unclear) for a brief period before resuming her activities.

 

[Tmy]

Why SHOULDNT we handcuff kids? Whats the big deal? Afraid their feels will be hurt. Then might as well just let them run wild!

By the way, if I did that as a 5 yr old. Being handcuffed would be the least of my worries. My dad would tan my backside good if I pulled a stunt like that at school. Cripes, on the first day of school he told all the nuns that they had his permission to smack his kids if they got out of line!

 

[RandFan]

Judging from that, do you think it was justified?

For the sake of argument let's assume that it was not justified. Why should we then be outraged? How is that fact worthy of any concern? Did the child suffer any harm?

 

[CFLarsen]

I worked as a counselor for The Utah Boys Ranch for a couple of years. We had specific policies for dealing such circumstances. Calling police to restrain a child that would not comply was one of those policies. I did it once and in that situation the police used handcuffs. The child was 9 or 10 if I remember correctly. It seems appropriate. Police have a very limited number of actions they can take in such situations. This girl was clearly non-compliant. I will concede that she was sitting in a chair at the time of the incident. I need to know the thought process of the police to make a decision as to whether it was necessary. But no one has offered any reason for outrage as far as I can see.

It's not a question of your previous experiences. Deal with this incident.

Do you think this was acceptable, yes or no?

 

[wahrheit]

If you read the rest of the linked article they were. It was the police who came in and handcuffed her. Note that they told her they would have to call the police and that's something you have to follow through. The fault lies with the police and not educators. Most cops I know would have shown up and at the most, been gruff.

I read it, I think you misunderstood me or, much more probable, I expressed myself unclear. My opinion is, that police officers are not the ones to deal with little kids in such a situation. I don't think they (the average cop) are trained to do this. It wasn't a gang shooting of mental street kids asking for law enforcement.

And handcuffs on little kids are not a means of "education" I could ever find appropriate. If this is how we educate/restrain/teach lessons to our kids, we failed miserably, I think.

 

[Tmy]

According to the reports, she was calm when the officers arrived.

Judging from that, do you think it was justified?

Yes. Im all for treating kids without the kid gloves. I dont see any harm with handcuffing a kid. Whats the big deal??

 

[RandFan]

And according to the reports, she also calmed down at least one time, (possibly twice, it's unclear) for a brief period before resuming her activities.

Thank you, the video clearly demonstrates that this child was simply not going to comply. And the fact that she was in a seated position doesn't prove that she was calm only that she wasn't acting out at that moment.

I think this is an argument that she perhaps shouldn't have been handcuffed but it doesn't prove that the action was absolutely uncalled for.

 

[Tmy]

And handcuffs on little kids are not a means of "education" I could ever find appropriate. If this is how we educate/restrain/teach lessons to our kids, we failed miserably, I think.

behave badly and bad things will happen to you. Seems like educating to me.

If you handcuff her at 5 she may learn her lesson, so you wont be handcuffing her at 15.

 

[RandFan]

It's not a question of your previous experiences. Deal with this incident.

My experience is simply to explain the reason why I think the way I do.

Do you think this was acceptable, yes or no?

Why do you demand answers while refusing to answer?

• I asked my questions first.
  
• I answered your question.

For the sake of argument let's assume that it was not justified. Why should we then be outraged? How is that fact worthy of any concern? Did the child suffer any harm?

 

[RandFan]

If this is how we educate/restrain/teach lessons to our kids, we failed miserably, I think.

Could you explain why? Shouldn't there be an objective reason or is this one of those wink wink nudge nudge type of things?

Why won't anyone answer my questions?

 

[RandFan]

Yes. Im all for treating kids without the kid gloves. I dont see any harm with handcuffing a kid. Whats the big deal??

{sigh} We are supposed to be outrage but no one can tell us why. Objectivity, skepticism, critical thinking....

Screw all that just get angry.

 

[RandFan]

RandFan
Is it possible for someone to answer the questions? Is it possible to do it with out ad hominem or personal attacks?[/b]

Let's see....

Stop whining. It is not a question of you "always" having to "answer all of the questions". Don't play a persecuted victim here. You are simply evading the issue, in favor of your imagined one.

No.

Well, I tried.

 

[Tmy]

Ill answer your Question Rand! No its not acceptable. Because of the Ophrafying of our nation it is now unacceptable to lay hands on a child no matter what they do. Instead you just try to reason with the unreasonable brats and hope they dont grow up into really bad bad seeds.

 

[Kaylee]

That 5 year old had a serious problem. She was being completely disruptive. Assuming the class had 25 students in it -- her temper tantrum seriously negatively impacted at least over 30 people's day. (Her classmates, teacher, asst. principal, 3 police officers, her mother, and all the people who work with her mother). That's crazy.

Police officers are not intended to be substitute baby sitters. If her behavior required that they had to come in to remove her from the premises, why should it be a pleasant experience for her? She had plenty of options to calm down before they came. And she did not do so until they were in the hallway. Did you really watch the video? Also based on my mother's (former kindergarten teacher) stories, the worse kids had the craziest parents. If the little girl had gotten bruised while trying to run away from the officers on the way to the police car, the mother may have sued. The police officers have an obligation not to leave themselves open for lawsuits.

Claus, what would a teacher or asst. principal do in Denmark?

ETA: Perhaps the best solution is to allow corporeal punishment again in the schools. {Shrug}. However, I suspect it was made illegal in the USA because enough teachers were abusing it.

Edited for minor grammar changes.

 

[corplinx]

Police have standard operating procedure. Cuffing (or using plastic ties) is standard operating procedure.

Any more dumb questions based on emotional responses to seeing the little girl scream?

 

[RandFan]

Dear Zep,

I'm trying, I'm really, really trying.

I asked a question and Larsen refuses to answer. He does however demand that I answer his question. He doesn't like my answer so he keeps asking the question while he refuses to answer mine.

Would it be ok to take the gloves off?