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Police handcuffing 5-year-old

CFLarsen

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Police handcuffing 5-year-old

Videotape was rolling March 14 when the 5-year-old girl swung again and again, her bantam punches landing on the outstretched palms of Nicole Dibenedetto, the new assistant principal at Fairmount Park Elementary.

...

As St. Petersburg police officers arrived shortly after 3 p.m., the girl suddenly sat quietly at Dibenedetto's table. And, just as suddenly, the tactics used by educators gave way to the more direct approach of law enforcement.

An officer sternly said the girl's name. Then: "You need to calm down. You need to do it now. OK?"

Seconds later, three officers approached and placed their hands on the girl's wrists and upper arms. They stood her up, put her arms behind her back and put on handcuffs. She bent over the table and let out a terrified scream.

"No. Nooooo. Ahhhhh."

The tape ends there.
Source
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Don't forget to check the video.

Is this OK with you? It isn't with me.
 
I read the article one more time. Have you seen the results of the online vote???

Do you think it is ever appropriate for police to handcuff a small child?

Yes. 5124 votes - 66%
No. 2622 votes - 34%

Total: 7746 votes
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Can anybody please help me here? I think I'm going insane. Online votes are not typical, reliable. But the strong tendency can't be denied.

How in the world can adults treat a small kid like this? Police officers? Sorry, I guess I'm still lacking words here.
 
wahrheit said:
I read the article one more time. Have you seen the results of the online vote???
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Yes, I did. That was also mentioned in the news.

Words fail indeed.
 
wahrheit said:
I read the article one more time. Have you seen the results of the online vote???


Can anybody please help me here? I think I'm going insane. Online votes are not typical, reliable. But the strong tendency can't be denied.

How in the world can adults treat a small kid like this? Police officers? Sorry, I guess I'm still lacking words here.
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The poll question was "Is it EVER appropriate for police to handcuff a small child?", wasn't it? Rather than, "was it appropriate in this case?"

I could see that it would be necessary in cases when the small child has a mental disturbance and proceeds to run around in a rampage, smashing glass and liable to hurt himself. What would you suggest a cop do in that situation? Knock the kid out with a straight left to the jaw? Summon a zoologist with a tranquilizer dart? Let the kid run through a sliding glass door?

In that sort of case, the child would have to be restrained. Cops come with handcuffs, not straight jackets.
 
Adults in a kindergarten should be able to deal with a 5-year-old without using handcuffs or unnecessary force.
 
This will really piss you off!

They handcuff young children in the U.S. too, but only after they've rendered them even more helpless with 50,000 volts of electricity.

The use of TASERs on children by law enforcement has become an issue here, but apparently people here are complacent enough to believe that the child must deserve the treatment. I'm sure it falls under the believe that these children may have connections to Muslim terrorists?

Mephisto

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/taser_on_children_ok.htm

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/taser_6yrold.htm

http://webclipper.handsnet.org/mt-static/archives/2004/11/police_must_sto.html
 
TragicMonkey said:
The poll question was "Is it EVER appropriate for police to handcuff a small child?", wasn't it? Rather than, "was it appropriate in this case?"

I could see that it would be necessary in cases when the small child has a mental disturbance and proceeds to run around in a rampage, smashing glass and liable to hurt himself. What would you suggest a cop do in that situation? Knock the kid out with a straight left to the jaw? Summon a zoologist with a tranquilizer dart? Let the kid run through a sliding glass door?
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A small child, 5 years of age, and two police officers can't handle her without handcuffs?

Give me a friggin' break.
 
wahrheit said:
Adults in a kindergarten should be able to deal with a 5-year-old without using handcuffs or unnecessary force.
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I saw the video and I don't necessarily think there was any choice in the matter. The child could easily have been restrained by 'holding' her arms behind her...at a distance to prevent getting kicked...but, unless the adult was willing to bruise the child, this was probably the safest, most prudent way to handle the situation.
 
Rob Lister said:
I saw the video and I don't necessarily think there was any choice in the matter. The child could easily have been restrained by 'holding' her arms behind her...at a distance to prevent getting kicked...but, unless the adult was willing to bruise the child, this was probably the safest, most prudent way to handle the situation.
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Do you think the child was completely out of control?
 
I hate to ask questions. It seems that sometimes it is inappropriate to question some of the posters here at JREF. What was seriously wrong with the actions of the officers to warrant such outrage? Have handcuffs been shown to cause any serious or lasting harm? Short term harm?

Aren't handcuffs part of the policy of police to subdue individuals? Are there rules not to handcuff individuals based on age?

Having watched the videos twice now I am really at a loss for the outrage. I could be persuaded, perhaps, that the action was unnecessary. I could be persuaded that there was a better course of action to end this situation. But I would need some reason that the action of the police was beyond the pale and/or was malicious and intended to cause harm.

Is it possible for someone to answer the questions? Is it possible to do it with out ad hominem or personal attacks? I have not attacked anyone in this thread and I respect those who disagree with me. I would just like to understand.

Sorry for asking the question.
 
Icouldnt get the video to work.

maybe its one of those scared straight tactics. To be honest, maybe we should be a little harsher with kids.
 
CFLarsen said:
A small child, 5 years of age, and two police officers can't handle her without handcuffs?

Give me a friggin' break.
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Did I say it was appropriate in this situation? Or did I ask if it was EVER appropriate to handcuff a small child in response to the apparent incredulity expressed at the results of a poll asking if it's EVER appropriate for police to handcuff a small child?
 
What would an elementary school teacher or principal do in Denmark or Germany?

When I was in grade school, corporeal punishment (spanking) was still legal. (That apparently is not an legal option in the little girl's school. ) If that didn’t work it was followed up with suspension and ultimately expulsion.

Although the little girl was only 5 years old she completely disrupted the classroom and her classmates not only had their teaching interrupted but they had to leave the classroom. I bet this wasn't the first time it happened also (see next paragraph). If you were one of the other children's parents, how would you feel about that? Personally, I would be infuriated. My mother use to be a kindergarten teacher. Believe it or not, 5 year olds actually have a lot they need to learn these days before they can be promoted to first grade. And even if they didn't, do her classmates deserve having to put up with that kind of behavior? She was hitting the adults, you can bet she hits at least some of them.

Did you watch the video of her in the asst. principal's office? She trashed that office and was jumping up on the table and hitting the asst. principal. For legal reasons I suppose the asst. principal was very limited in what she could do. Also when the police came, one of them asked the little girl if she remembered him. (It's on the tape.) I strongly suspect that what she did the last time while the police removed her from the school explains why they handcuffed her this time.

I'm not saying I have the answers, but if you do, I hope you will share them!
 
More magical thinking...

Those 'outraged' at the use of police equipment would have been happier if these children had been allowed to hurt themselves?

Or is it just blind faith that 'there must have been soooomething else they could have done'?

Why you people keep falling for superstitious woo-woo like this is beyond me.
 
CFLarsen said:
That's fine. Answer this one: Do you think it was justified in this case?
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It really is not easy to tell. Justified? As I said I could be persuaded that it was unnecassary but as it stands I'm not certain. More importantly I don't see any reason for outrage.

In any event, why do I always have to answer all of the question? Can't anyone answer mine?
 
wahrheit said:
Adults in a kindergarten should be able to deal with a 5-year-old without using handcuffs or unnecessary force.
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If you read the rest of the linked article they were. It was the police who came in and handcuffed her. Note that they told her they would have to call the police and that's something you have to follow through. The fault lies with the police and not educators. Most cops I know would have shown up and at the most, been gruff.

... The tape, which lasts about 30 minutes, begins with Dibenedetto alone in the classroom with the girl, saying the child's name frequently as part of her commands.

"You need to stop," she tells her, using her hands to make the sign language signal for stop. "You don't get to wreck the room."

Using her radio, she calls for help from teacher Patti Tsaousis. She also asks the school office to call the girl's mother and tell her the school will have to call Pinellas Schools police if the behavior continues.

Word comes back that the mother would not be able to make it until 3:15 p.m. It is shortly after 2 p.m.

A short time later, the girl is heard off camera breaking a ceramic or plastic apple on Ottersbach's desk.

"Oh, you broke her apple," Dibenedetto says. "That is so sad."

Throughout the 23-minute segment in the classroom, the assistant principal tells the girl many times to stop, that her actions are "not acceptable." She tells her she needs to take her to her office to prepare for her mother's arrival.

The girl responds to each request with a curt, "No." When the girl reaches out to strike them at times, Dibenedetto and Tsaousis tell her to stop and hold their hands up in defense.

Dibenedetto and Tsaousis have two breakthroughs - once when they persuade the girl to clean up a small mess she made near Ottersbach's office and another when they finally get her to leave the classroom with them.

In the second instance, Dibenedetto brings herself to eye level with the girl and tries to get her to talk about why she's upset. She gives the girl the option of walking with her or Tsaousis to the office. When the girl relents, the educators praise her for making an "excellent choice."

The Times interviewed several top educators, including two district officials who had seen the video and two professors at the University of South Florida's College of Education.

All praised Dibenedetto for using patience and good training in a tough situation. They said she gave the girl wide latitude to opt for better behavior, used clear commands, called for help from another educator, removed the other students from the room for their safety and to eliminate an audience for the girl, reinforced commands with hand motions and successfully avoided physical confrontation.

Touching the girl, they said, would have escalated the situation.

The two educators "can't control what the children do, but they can control how they respond to it and, to me, they responded admirably," said Robert Egley, an assistant education professor at USF in St. Petersburg. "I give them an A-plus."

Trevena, the lawyer, disagreed, saying it appeared to him the two educators followed the girl too closely around the room. "It almost seemed like there was an intent to provoke the child," he said.

Akins, the girl's mother, said she had complained to the school about the assistant principal's treatment of her daughter. She said the administrator has been too harsh with the girl. The police had been called to the school at least once before in response to the girl's behavior. The girl has since transferred to another public school.
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Was she upset cause she was cuffed Or where the cuffs hurthing her?? Ifthey were hurting her thats one thing.

If she was just upset about being cuffed. To f'n bad. People get cuffed all the time even when they arent a danger. Bratty kids shoudl learn that there are consequences to actions.
 
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