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First off, claiming that "the police use psychics" or "the police do not use psychics" on the basis of individual cases or statements from individual police agencies is stretching things way too far.

There ain't any monolithic creature known as "the police". There are hundreds, at least, of agencies involved in police work, made up of many thousands of individuals. The only way one could make a gneneralization about police use of psychics would be to poll all of the relevant agencies in a given area about their experiences and policies, and you would still only be able to generalize to the extent of your sample.

Also, there's a difference between "solving" a case, in the sense of figuring out what happened to the satisfaction of an individual investigator, and assembling a body of evidence that can prove the solution to the satisfaction of the courts.

The logic involved in "solving" a crime is closely related to that used in troubleshooting a problem in a technical system, or in diagnosing a disease. When you're at the stage of spinning working hypotheses which you can test and eliminate, very few holds are barred. A possibility could be suggested by the evidence gathered so far based on rigorous deduction, it could be a leap based on previous experience ("I've seen that before. Last time the answer was-----. I'll test that first."). It could be a guess, educated or otherwise- it could even be brought to mind by a suggestion from someone with no particular knowledge on which to base their suggestion. The important thing is that the hypothesis, once formed, has to be tested against reality- does it account for the evidence in hand, does it predict other findings and are the predictions found to be true?

The fact that a self-proclaimed psychic makes a suggestion that leads to a hypothesis which is subsequently found to be valid doesn't demonstrate per se that the psychic actually used paranormal powers in making that suggestion.

If you're curious about how a charlatan can make an accurate prediction and dress it up as paranormal, the tale of Thrasyllus' first meeting with Tiberius, in Tacitus' "Annals of Imperial Rome" is very instructive.
 
Luci...

Your links...

What actual authority is the Police Federation...thats making these claims...Is it the official voice of Scotland Yard and they approve everything that written in it...

Is it a governmental dept....

A Police Union....

Is the the official voice of HM Government Police forces....

Just like to know....
 
Salt Lake City Detectives use psychic advice with predictable results..

SLC Tribune

Police, Archaeologists Wary of Psychics' Theory of Smart Mystery
Saturday, September 7, 2002



(c) 2001, THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE

The months-old search for Elizabeth Smart took a strange twist last week when two Salt Lake City detectives -- at the behest of a group of psychics -- ventured into a crypt that holds the skeletal remains of ancient American Indians.
Officials from PSI Tech, a Seattle-based company, claimed that more than a dozen of its members had determined the location of Elizabeth's body by using a special psychic process they call "Technical Remote Viewing."
Independently, the company claims, 14 visionaries all pointed to a concrete burial vault built by the state of Utah about 10 years ago. The vault, located in Salt Lake City's This Is the Place State Heritage Park in the mouth of Emigration Canyon, contains the remains of 75 American Indians, many unearthed by construction projects around Utah.
But the crypt was searched and no trace of the 14-year-old girl, snatched June 5 from her bedroom, could be found, said state archaeologist Kevin Jones.
"We searched it very thoroughly. The whole thing was very secure," Jones said. "I certainly didn't want to start opening coffins."
The investigators' fruitless Aug. 28 search through cobwebs and stale air was one example of how thousands of tips from self-proclaimed psychics have occupied overworked detectives desperately trying to crack the baffling case.
"Many of these [psychic tipsters] are well-meaning, but these tips certainly take manpower away from the investigation," said Salt Lake City Police Chief Rick Dinse.
Still, he said that investigators will check out every "psychic vision" if the tip is specific.
"I don't encourage it or discourage it," Dinse said, speaking of psychics sharing their beliefs. In fact, Dinse said officers still may recruit a psychic to assist with the case.
"To this point, we haven't brought in any psychics -- but I don't rule anything out," Dinse said.
While recently staffing the police department's Elizabeth Smart tip line personally, Dinse took several calls from psychics, some of whom he said seemed "apologetic," but nevertheless felt they had "to help however they could."
Contacted by Elizabeth's uncle, Dave Smart, PSI Tech gathered the company's "special operations team" of 14 professional "remote viewers," who attempted to discern from afar the location of Elizabeth's body.
The same group had decided Elizabeth was killed within hours of her abduction, PSI Tech CEO Dane Spotts wrote on the company's Web site.
"All people are born with natural psychic or sixth-sense abilities," writes Spotts, explaining his technique, which "result in an accurate transfer of information from the viewer's unconscious mind into conscious awareness . . . During this process, the viewer becomes linked directly to the collective unconscious."
Using the process, Spotts said, his team created sketches which it believed matched the burial vault in the foothills of Salt Lake City.
The vault -- which is a simple concrete shaft protected by a steel grate -- "is a special and consecrated place," Jones said. He said he balked at allowing the group of visionaries into the crypt. "I said, 'I'm not going to open the vault unless there is a police presence.' I have the key. I guard that with the trust of the Native American people of Utah."
Dave Smart called the police for assistance, and two lead case investigators shortly arrived. "They showed up and we went in," Jones recalled.
But Spotts was not satisfied with the search, calling it a "cursory peek." He questions why a trained cadaver dog was not allowed inside the crypt.
"I don't know how that dog is trained, but I do know there are 75 remains in there," retorts Jones.
Dave Smart added that he was satisfied with how the police handled the situation. He said the detectives responded promptly and assured him that his niece was not down there.
Spotts remains unsatisfied, and believers have peppered Jones' office with more than two dozen angry e-mail messages. "Is Elizabeth's body inside this Native American burial tomb?" Spotts asks. "We still can't rule it out. As far as I am concerned, the site has not been officially cleared."
kcantera@sltrib.com
mvigh@sltrib.com

:rolleyes:
 
The one thing that I can never figure out, and the one question that is never answered is: Why don't these psychics remove all doubt once and for all by accepting the JREF challange? No excuses, no hemming and hawing; just go take the f**king test, claim the million bucks, and get headlines worldwide. While they're at it, someone ask one of these people to solve one of the biggest mysteries of modern times: Why won't Sylvia Browne accept the challange?
 
luci has gone crazy posting these latest 2 links. They were posted bu luci multiple times in the previous thread and now luci has gone mad multiple posting them on this new thread....I suppose the principle is repetition adds credibility? Luci is very proud of these latest links....Having read them I have no idea why......
 
The Fool said:
luci has gone crazy posting these latest 2 links. They were posted bu luci multiple times in the previous thread and now luci has gone mad multiple posting them on this new thread....I suppose the principle is repetition adds credibility? Luci is very proud of these latest links....Having read them I have no idea why......

What's wrong with them? Are the Police Federation and the BBC lying or involved in some big konspiracy together?

The first one is the Police Federation magazine and gives evidence from one of their detectives about how a psychic was used and hhow she scored direct hits, particularly in repsect of the nickname. To suggest that either the psychic is involved in the crime or that a secrit police conspiracy operates which gives the info to the psychics on the sly, is so stupid, that any claims to it must furnish extraordinary evidence.
http://www.polfed.org/magazine/12_2..._2001_ghost.htm

The second, demonstrates that the police indeed do use psychics to "help" with their enquiries, and is confirmed by Scotland Yard and the NCF by the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pr.../08/taro9.shtml

Be honest, be skeptical.

Why don't you answer the question about whether people should be treated innocent until proven guilty, Fool? Are you completely devoid of honour?
 
Lucianarchy said:
Why don't you answer the question about whether people should be treated innocent until proven guilty, Fool? Are you completely devoid of honour?

ok luci, but please understand, I've answered you twice in the previous thread and now once more here. I have my limits, If you are going to post the same thing over and over its a pointless waste of time.

Firstly...your evidence. you claim the police in this case "used" a psychic, implying they went looking for a psychic to use....Wrong, she turned up unasked and offered information.

second....you claim the information she provided "proved" she is psychic.... well, I will agree with you that one police officer on the case believed she was psychic. His superior officer didn't. His superior believed she had recieved information from a witness or someone involved in the crime. You dismiss this by saying it is my "grand conspiracy theory" well, its not my theory at all, its the theory of the officer in charge of the case and you provided this evidence yourself...I had nothing to do with the origins of this alternate explanation...you provided it luci, you provided it luci, you provided it luci. I repeated that as you don't seem to get that point.

I fail to see what the innocent until proven guilty statement has to do with this? Its not illegal to provide information to the police, even if the police believe you recieved the information from a witness or someone involved. What you are really saying is that if there are two possible explanations, inside info (hot reading) and psychic powers, then we must decide it is psychic powers because this is the most plausible explanation. I have no doubt it is the most plausible to you... But its not the most plausible to me.

Now, I'm not going to explain this again, ok..... If you repost the same theory and that same old link again. I'll just repost this reply......

Now a question for you...If, as you say, police use Psychics...why have they not got psychic squads? Departments of Paranormal investigation.... they use dogs and have dog squads? Why is there not police psychic officers....uniformed psychics from the psychic department??........ "Good morning sir my name is Detective Blogs from the psychic branch"....what a joke. Get a grip luci.....
 
Here's a thought...why not scrap the jury system and allow psychics and people like John Edwards to act as juries? In other words, in a murder case, the dead person could tell if the accused is the perp.

Luci: you willing to stand before a psychic, any psychic, and let them determine your guilt or innocent? If not, you are a coward and unwilling to stand by your "convictions" (which, BTW, is a play on the theme of the post -- get it? :) )
 
headscratcher4 said:
Luci: you willing to stand before a psychic, any psychic, and let them determine your guilt or innocent?
That cuts right to the heart of the matter, money where your mouth is, along the lines of dowsers who are not afraid to put their beliefs on the line and dowse a minefield.
 
So, if psychics can solve crimes, why are there so many unsolved murders still on the books?
Shouldn't these amazing psychics have solved them all by now? Why are they holding out on us?

And so what if police do use psychics? Just like every other sector of society, there are all kinds of police officers, including ones naive and simple enough to assume psychics can help. In fact, I'll go as far as saying they aren't totally naive and simple, but just want to make it seem to family members of victims that they are doing everything they can to help an investigation.

And what of the amazing antedoctal evidence that Luci provides links to. ◊◊◊◊, that means little. I'm sure some police are just as easily duped as the average audience member of a John Edward taping. And prone to embellishment and exageration when telling a story.

And what about the links provided by Latimer and De_Bunk, Luci? Any comments? Did you review them? C'mon, be honest, be skeptical.
 
These boards are like cheese sandwiches...you leave them for two days and they get a life all of their own!

Luci, Luci, Luci....You will not get me into a flame war again. I have given my force number and constabulary previously as well as the area I worked in. That is more than enough proof for anyone to be able to verify if they doubt me. Need more? It can be arranged by scanning in and posting to a third party - Diezel/Ed maybe.

Now, listen carefully to this next bit because it is important... Police Officers in the United Kingdom DO NOT USE PSYCHICS IN THEIR INVESTIGATIONS. They MAY act on information provided by somebody who claims to be a psychic, but that is volunteered by the "psychic" themselves and is not actively sought by the OIC's. If they were used do you not think they would be employed on high profile cases? Where are the Psychics in use for tracking the serial rapist on the loose at the moment?

Now you may argue I am being pedantic, but there is a great difference between using a psychic and using information provided by someone. One is an investigative tool, one is a line of enquiry provided BY AN OUTSIDE SOURCE. It is like a witchdoctor coming into the front counter and giving info. That does not then become "Police use Voodoo to solve a case" does it? Even if the Witchdoctor says the info came from Ybo.

I am also interested as to why you choose to ignore the bit in the BBC link where the Police say "We do not use psychics". Care to comment or are you merely being selective in what you believe? If a piece of evidence is cotradictory it cannot be used for either "side" as proof positive of anything (not that I take sides - I just try to get to the bottom of things).

I am not saying psychics do not exist, I am not saying that they do not VOLUNTARILY go into a Police station and give information. I am not even saying you are an idiot if you do. What I am saying is that POLICE DO NOT CONSULT OR USE PSYCHICS AS PART OF THE INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS.

I KNOW this is true because I was a Police Officer. Come on all you JREF'ers who were/are in the job! Join the chorus! (thanks Andalyn by the way)

Oh and Luci, my screen-name is my business - just as your hideous avatar is yours. Just for your info it was a nickname I was given by some very good friends I used to train with in the US because of my preference for/aptitude in the art of Kino Mutai. Look it up if you want to know what it is. In any case it has no bearing on the discussion and makes you look as if you are trying to divert attention away from the matter in hand.

Bahala Na!

Edited for pour spellyn and punkchewatian
 
Police & Psychicsi

As for police and psychics, I find this very hard to swallow. It defies all logic, if this is so, we would not require a police force whatsoever. He who lacks logic, is a threat to himself and other's. Absolutely bogus.... :D :D
 
Choose 10 distinct locations. Grocery store. Church. Corn field. Highway. Woods. School cafeteria. Etc.

Pick out one of the locations randomly and place a person there at a specific time.

Grant a psychic access to personal details, personal belongings of that individual. Clothing, pictures, birth certificate. Whatever the psychic needs.

Then let the alleged psychic show his or her ability by disclosing where the test subject is placed. Run this procedure ten times or more. Each time, the psychic must choose one of the 10 locations.

Count the correct hits. If they score 0, 1, or 2, we should tell them to stop bothering the police - if they are that kind of a psychic. If they score 3, 4, or 5, it might be worthwhile to repeat the test.

Any score above that would be sound indication that they do have some ability. Again, further testing would be called for to explore what exactly they are capable of.

If they only work with dead people, I'm sure that can be arranged too.
 
Re: Police & Psychicsi

Jade said:
As for police and psychics, I find this very hard to swallow. It defies all logic, if this is so, we would not require a police force whatsoever. He who lacks logic, is a threat to himself and other's. Absolutely bogus.... :D :D

Monty Python remembered:

"Are you the Church Police?"

"Oh Yes!"
...

"Alright men, the chase is on! Now we shall all kneel. Oh Lord, tell us who croaked Lester"

**The one in the braces. He dunnit.**

Or you get Minority Report where they catch the guy before they even do the crime.
 
Out of sheer curiosity, I e-mailed Scotland Yard the following:

Dear Sir:

Amongst certain circles there has been debate as to whether or not law enforcement agencies employ the services of psychics to aid in ongoing or unsolved criminal investigations.

Has Scotland Yard ever secured the services of, or worked with psychics to solve crimes?

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Regards,

xxxxxxxxxxx

To which I received this reply:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your email. My knowledge is that we do not employ psychics but if they offer suggestions we take them into consideration as we do with any evidence offered by anyone.

Email Office
Metropolitan Police Service
New Scotland Yard
London SW1H 0BG
www.met.police.uk

Which corroborates Hannibal's statements:

Now you may argue I am being pedantic, but there is a great difference between using a psychic and using information provided by someone. One is an investigative tool, one is a line of enquiry provided BY AN OUTSIDE SOURCE. It is like a witchdoctor coming into the front counter and giving info. That does not then become "Police use Voodoo to solve a case" does it? Even if the Witchdoctor says the info came from Ybo.
...
I am not saying psychics do not exist, I am not saying that they do not VOLUNTARILY go into a Police station and give information. I am not even saying you are an idiot if you do. What I am saying is that POLICE DO NOT CONSULT OR USE PSYCHICS AS PART OF THE INVESTIGATIVE PROCESS.

How long must this topic endure? :rolleyes:
 
Wolverine said:
Out of sheer curiosity, I e-mailed Scotland...
What a novel idea...ask the source. Of course the links provided were pretty clear.

I suppose that there is sufficent anecdotal evidence that if one wnated to, one could believe that psychics solve crimes. Emperical evidence however is just not there.
 
RandFan said:
What a novel idea...ask the source. Of course the links provided were pretty clear.

Oh of course, I didn't think there was any doubt about the matter, but was just curious to see specifically what sort of reply I'd receive. :)
 
Wolverine said:
Oh of course, I didn't think there was any doubt about the matter, but was just curious to see specifically what sort of reply I'd receive. :)
Well I was impressed. To bad more people don't use such "critical thinking" skills instead of relying on anecdotal information.

"Officer so and so said it happened. Hey it must be true."
 

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