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Police and Psychics

Lucianarchy

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Originally posted by Ersby
I think we should give credit where it is due. Luci's given a decent link from that Police Federation thingy, and it's worth looking into.

The second one is not so good, since it gives no details as to whether the psychic was successful or not.


Thanks. The first one is the Police Federation magazine and gives evidence from one of their detectives about how a psychic was used and hhow she scored direct hits, particularly in repsect of the nickname. To suggest that either the psychic is involved in the crime or that a secrit police conspiracy operates which gives the info to the psychics on the sly, is so stupid, that any claims to it must furnish extraordinary evidence.
http://www.polfed.org/magazine/12_2001/12_2001_ghost.htm

The second, demonstrates that the police indeed do use psychics to "help" with their enquiries, and is confirmed by Scotland Yard and the NCF by the BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/04_april/08/taro9.shtml

Both these examples come from highly credible sources, and as such prove beyond all reasonable doubt, that Hanniball and the Fool are evidently *wrong* in any claim they may have that the police don't use psychics in the UK. Ed has already confirmed that the police use psychics to "help" solve cases in the US, this evidence confirms that the same is true in the UK.
 
Greetings Lucianarchy I hope you are well and happy..

I do not simply believe or discount anything. There is much unknown. But we must live by facts and logic not emotion of what we wish to be true. The simple fact is no psychic has ever solved any case, ever.
 
I would say accurate statements of the subject of this debate would be this:

1. Police and law enforcement agencies do not make use of psychics.

2. Claimed psychics are sometimes brought in by victem's families, or simply volunteer their information to the police, leading to claims of 'helping' the police on a case. They are not actually part of the investigation.

3. Individual police / law enforcement officers may believe in psychics, and either seek out or accept such help on their own. This does not reflect the agencies policies or practices, it is the actions of an individual.

4. The opinion of an individual officer who believed in psychics is in no way evidence that the psychic was of any actual help. As was demonstrated before despite the officer's belief the psychic was of great help, her information was in fact useless. Just like Nostrodumbass quatrains, they only seem to be predictive after the fact.
 
IT seems to me that there are a couple of bigger questions...

1. Has anyone ever been convicted of a crime based on evidence generated by a psychic?

The answer, I suspect, is an emphatic, deafening "no". Indeed, it is impossible (at least in the US), because the evidence is no good. It wouldn't pass a court test, there is not only no scientific consensus on it as probative evidence, the mass of "evidence" and expertise, is that it is worthless. If psychics were real, or only just believed they were real, they'd be pusning for acceptance of phychic evidence as real evidence. That can't, don't and aren't.

2. If the evidence has no value, it is irrlevant to the solving of a crime. In other words, regardless of any individual investigators personal belief in the power, they can't rely on it. A individual investigator knows that even if he/she thinks a "psychic" provides interesting or unusual information on a case that is valuable to solving the case (an assertion that I would argue has NEVER been shown to be true), they know the "evidence" is useless. So, therefore, they have to get real evidence, the old fashioned way to solve a case and convict a criminal.

Bottom line, psychics can line up from here to the moon, but unless they are willing to be tested under controlled conditions to prove the probative and actual value of the evidence they supposedly generate -- and have that "proof" accepted not only by fringe scientist but by the vast majority of scientists and investigative experts...it is all useless and a joke. In short, evne IF the power were real, it is useless because the things it tells us in an investigation have to be proven or shown by other methods. So, it is essentially a parlor trick. Like with Uri -- even if he bends spoons with a "power" (yeah, right), every cheap magician on the backwater circuit can do the same trick without the power...so what good, use, value of the power?
 
Marc,

Pretty spot on really.

Luci,

Why the new thread? We are having sufficiently good debate on the other. If anyone wishes to catch up read "are we looking at all the evidence". I am the one who is/was a Police Officer - for some reason Luci thinks this means I do not know what I am talking about. Interesting logic...

I am currently chasing up contacts to prove once and for all that Luci is incorrect in his/her assertions.

Looking at it pragmatically who is more likely to know - a Police Officer with first hand experience or a forum member with NO experience only third hand accounts that are not even in agreement on what they say (see my QED reference in the oter forum).
 
"Without Noreen Renier we would not have
located Norman Lewis. I'm extremely
impressed with her abilities. She told
us things that she would have to have
been an eyewitness to have known."
- Williston Cheif of Police, Olin Slaughter.
 
"After we had been with Christine for about an hour and a half, we were trying to get her to admit being given some of the information by the victim’s family or even a member of the Murder Team. But she was insistent that her only source was the voice in her head. As a final gesture, she offered to give information about one of us. Andy volunteered. He was asked to hand over something of his own. I think he gave her his car keys. Christine then described three different aspects of his personal life, none of which I had known about. We had not worked together before.

The first was extremely personal indeed and quite detailed. He confirmed those details to me after we had left. She also stated that he had received a letter concerning ‘essential electrical work’. He told me that he had received a mortgage offer from a Building Society the previous day, with the condition that the house he wanted to buy was rewired. Andy was quite dismissive about the third, which predicted his imminent transfer to another police area. Unexpected by him, maybe, but an order transferring him to another Division came within a few days. He was quite shaken by the whole experience. The Squad included more than twenty detectives, and we ourselves had picked up the assignment only that morning, and by chance. "

Extract from Police Federation Magazine.
 
Hannibal said:


Looking at it pragmatically who is more likely to know - a Police Officer with first hand experience or a forum member with NO experience only third hand accounts that are not even in agreement on what they say (see my QED reference in the oter forum).
Click to expand...

You are an un-named board poster, who enhaces his credibility with of claiming to be a police officer with a picture and screen alluding to a serial-killer. Your statements alone mean nothing here, you need to back them up with e.v.i.d.e.n.c.e., like I have done, coming from a credible and verifiable source.

It has been proved to you now that the police work *with* psychics. As I have demonstated that I can admit to mistakes re my aplogy to you, likewise, please have some honour and apologise for your mistake. It is the only way you will be able to move on in this life.

You have provided nothing short of opinion. You say you were a police officer, well in light of the evidence from the BBC, the Police Federation magazine and Scotland Yard, you were either an ignorant officer or a misinformed one, but the verifiable fact is, you are wrong and anyone who has even bothered to look into these leads now knows that you are wrong.

http://www.polfed.org/magazine/12_2001/12_2001_ghost.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2002/04_april/08/taro9.shtml
 
Luci..

I see you quoted Olin Slaughter again...

What you missed out is that when pressed, he recanted everything...and then claimed that the mediums help was total garbage...

Other officers also claimed, off the record, that Slaughter was a complete f*ckwit and had made the Dept. look ridiculous...

I dunno...
 
De_Bunk said:
Luci..

I see you quoted Olin Slaughter again...

What you missed out is that when pressed, he recanted everything...and then claimed that the mediums help was total garbage...

Other officers also claimed, off the record, that Slaughter was a complete f*ckwit and had made the Dept. look ridiculous...

I dunno...
Click to expand...

URL where this can verified past your claim above, please.
 
Luci..

Remember last time you brought up Olin Slaughter...

ages ago....

I posted a link then...but i cant be assed looking for it again...it took me hours last time..

It could be still here somewhere...

But thats about the gist of it....

(PS...I went on a mad, drunken thread deleting spree a while back..it could have gone then....)

I might see if i can find it again...later...
 
De_Bunk said:
Luci..

Remember last time you brought up Olin Slaughter...

ages ago....

I posted a link then...but i cant be assed looking for it again...it took me hours last time..

It could be still here somewhere...

But thats about the gist of it....

(PS...I went on a mad, drunken thread deleting spree a while back..it could have gone then....)

I might see if i can find it again...later...
Click to expand...

Yes, you do that. Until then, your claim is non-sense.
 
Luci...

Yeah...'cos everything you post is absolutely proveable and sesnsible isnt it...

Im not the woowoo making ridiculous statements about all these mediums and psychics solving masses of crimes...am i...
 
De_Bunk said:
Luci...

Yeah...'cos everything you post is absolutely proveable and sesnsible isnt it...

Im not the woowoo making ridiculous statements about all these mediums and psychics solving masses of crimes...am i...
Click to expand...

No. I provide evidence, you provide alcohol.
 
Heres some links that actually tell the truth about Renier and Willaston PD....plus how she acutally has done no better than chance....

http://www.reall.org/newsletter/v04/n12/psychic.html

http://members.aol.com/tbskep/v9n2rpt.html

http://www.parascope.com/en/articles/notSoPsychic.htm

http://members.aol.com/garypos/Pos_AandE.html

http://members.aol.com/garypos/Renier_list.html

Now i looked for the article about Slaughter being a idiot..but i couldnt find it...maybe its been removed....

But im gonna offer as much proof as you do...and say i read it...posted the link here a few months ago...

Anyway the links above show how delusional Renier is...
 
De_Bunk said:


Now i looked for the article about Slaughter being a idiot..but i couldnt...
Click to expand...

No, because it only exists in your imagination.

Anyway the links above show how delusional Renier is...
Click to expand...

No, they show the opinion of one Gary Posner, so what? He ain't the cheif of Williston Police or a detective involved in the case. Those guys are trained in spotting deception and fraud, that's why they are called professional detectives.
 
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