Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

Is the plume in this photo from Flight 93 crashing?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 129 90.8%

  • No.

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Total voters
    142
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Killtown said:
I would really, really, really, like to know this so we can move on to the color change of the plume (if there is any color change).
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Oh, goody. This is what I've waited 31 pages for. Please get through your first calculation so you can explain what color the mushroom cloud was before and after Val McClatchey's still photo was taken.

:popcorn1
 
New calculations added:

-------------------------------
Your minimum:

Crash angle: "nearly 90 deg"
Fuel upon impact: 7,500 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 75%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Initial fireball width: 50m/165ft
Peak fireball width: ???
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 600m/2,000ft

--------------------------------
Your maximum:

Crash angle: 40-45 deg
Fuel upon impact: 10,000 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 95%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Initial fireball width: 700m/2,230ft
Peak fireball width: ???
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 1000m/3,300ft

Does everybody concur? If so, we'll move on to "peak fireball size."
 
Killtown said:
Let me help you guys out AGAIN. Here's an fireball explosion from moab nosediving and spreads out pretty far and starts to create a pretty big plume:

A moab is 30 feet (10 metres) in length to give you a comparison to go off of.

It seems to be on its way to making a pretty big plume.

How wide do you think 93's fireball would have been when it hit to expand up to your plume size estimates?
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No, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't...wait...have we been Punk'd?
 
Killtown said:
Hey, it's all up to you guys what figures you want to give me. this is your theory I'm trying to prove. you guys decide what your fireball estimates are.

I tried to help you determine by showing you the fireball size the B-52 crash & Moab bomb made. I'd say 93 would have made one the size of the moab personally, but that's up for you guys to decide.
Click to expand...

Since this seems to be slow in sinking in LISTEN! YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING A CLAIM. THE ONUS IS UPON YOU TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT SUBSTANTIATES/CORROBARATES YOUR CLAIM. AS YOUR OPPOSITION ALL WE NEED TO IS ANALYZE, AND POSSIBLE REFUTE, YOUR EVIDENCE.
 
Killtown said:
Ya know, why don't we just do "peak" fireball size, since having both is redundant.

cool?
Click to expand...
Why don't you first apologize to Val and put up a disclaimer on your site that it is all fiction, since you have demonstrated that you do not have the understanding to have "checked the numbers twice" and confirmed anything at all?

After you do that, then you can treat this as the little game you seem to think it is. Before you do that, all you are is dishonest.
 
Mercutio said:
Why don't you first apologize to Val and put up a disclaimer on your site that it is all fiction, since you have demonstrated that you do not have the understanding to have "checked the numbers twice" and confirmed anything at all?

After you do that, then you can treat this as the little game you seem to think it is. Before you do that, all you are is dishonest.
Click to expand...

QFT
 
Killtown said:
Let me help you guys out AGAIN. Here's an fireball explosion from moab nosediving and spreads out pretty far and starts to create a pretty big plume:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htm

A moab is 30 feet (10 metres) in length to give you a comparison to go off of.

It seems to be on its way to making a pretty big plume.

How wide do you think 93's fireball would have been when it hit to expand up to your plume size estimates?


-------------------------------
Your minimum:

Crash angle: "nearly 90 deg"
Fuel upon impact: 7,500 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 75%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Initial fireball width: ???
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 600m/2,000ft

--------------------------------
Your maximum:

Crash angle: 40-45 deg
Fuel upon impact: 10,000 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 95%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Initial fireball width: ???
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 1000m/3,300ft
Click to expand...

I'm sorry If I'm misunderstanding the nature of this post, but are you honestly trying to compare the smoke plumes of a crashed airliner and an extremely large high explosive bomb? I'm sure 10000 gallons of burning (deflagrating) jet fuel and 9.2 tons of detonating high explosive have a lot in common!




:rolleyes:
 
Mercutio said:
Why don't you first apologize to Val and put up a disclaimer on your site that it is all fiction, since you have demonstrated that you do not have the understanding to have "checked the numbers twice" and confirmed anything at all?

After you do that, then you can treat this as the little game you seem to think it is. Before you do that, all you are is dishonest.
Click to expand...

bump
 
No, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't...wait...have we been Punk'd?
Click to expand...
I warned ya! He is not here to learn! Of that I am sure! RM my hat is off to you! A teacher first rate!


edit: Senor, love you work at ats!
DT
 
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Senor_Pointy said:
I'm sorry If I'm misunderstanding the nature of this post, but are you honestly trying to compare the smoke plumes of a crashed airliner and an extremely large high explosive bomb?
Click to expand...
No, you are misunderstanding.

But stick around and add to the experiment!
 
Killtown said:
Ya know, why don't we just do "peak" fireball size, since having both is redundant.

cool?
Click to expand...
Yes, by all means tell us what you know about "peak" fireball size.

If you're totally lost, here's a hint: Air / fuel mixture ratios.
 
How about these figures?

-------------------------------
Your minimum:

Crash angle: "nearly 90 deg"
Fuel upon impact: 7,500 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 75%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Peak fireball width: 100m/330ft
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 600m/2,000ft

--------------------------------
Your maximum:

Crash angle: 40-45 deg
Fuel upon impact: 10,000 gals
Fuel % burned upon impact: 95%
Wingspan: 38m/125ft
Peak fireball width: 700m/2,230ft
Plume width size at time of Val's photo: 1,000m/3,300ft

--------------------------------
 
Last edited:
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