Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

[MortFurd]

Jeez, and you guys call me dumb.

Point A = crash spot

Point B = where it was in Val's photo

You give that appearance at times.

Nowhere else has any thing been referred to as points A and B.

There were several posts calculating possible drift at various speeds, and what effect that would have on the appearnce of the cloud.

You are stalling and farking around.

 

[R.Mackey]

Jeez, and you guys call me dumb.

Point A = crash spot

Point B = where it was in Val's photo

It doesn't really matter unless you guys think the plume would have kept growing even as it was shifting the 100's of yards needed by the wind.

Since the plume in her photo is still "thick," it doesn't look like it dissipated much.

Ok smart guy, how did the plume get so big before the wind started blowing it?

I have never in my life seen anybody strobe back and forth this fast between two arguments (both discredited) in a vain attempt to avoid answering questions.

Wind will blow the plume at all times, even before it ignites. Anything airborne will be blown. The wind does not impede expansion of the fireball or resulting smoke cloud. Anyone who's ever been to a barbeque can tell you that. (Hey, wait a minute, I think I see the problem )

We showed you calculations about how big it could get, and how fast is well within reason too. I don't care how it "looks" to you. Disprove the calculations already. Get to work, Stalltown.

 

[Pardalis]

Killtown, the size and shape of the plume IS ITSELF an indication of how long it was after the crash.

 

[Mercutio]

It doesn't really matter unless you guys think the plume would have kept growing even as it was shifting the 100's of yards needed by the wind.

If it still had combustible material in it, then of course it was. If it still was hot compared to the colder air around it, then it was.

Ever watch a smokestack on a day with a breeze? Does the smoke go straight up as it expands, then take a 90 degree turn? Of course not. Does the smoke quit expanding after it leaves the stack? Of course not.

Since the plume in her photo is still "thick," it doesn't look like it dissipated much.

Again, your subjective opinion. You are no expert; the expert who has been shown the photo says that it is impossible to say.

You owe Val an apology.

Actually...let me ask you: If (I stress, if) you were convinced to your own satisfaction that your analysis was wrong, would you feel compelled to apologize to Val?

 

[MortFurd]

Ok smart guy, how did the plume get so big before the wind started blowing it?

It GROWS and DRIFTS at the same time! There's a concept for you. Watch smoke rise sometime, or actually watch some of those videos you love to bandy about.

 

[Killtown]

1) The plume must have kept expanding and dissipating, wouldn't you agree on that?

2) What do you think happenned to the plume after the picture? Do you think it's still hovering around somewhere? Gosh, if someone could take his hands on it!

3) It was dissipating the minute the fire got consumed. Besides, how do you know how a plume of smoke is exactly supposed to behave?

1) according to Val's photo, has it dissipated much? Doesn't look like it to me...

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20060806wap_Flight93_450.jpg

2) I think it dissappeared, or someone else surely would have taken a picture of it as this MONSTEROUS plume continued to drift, right?

3) It's a short pulse plume drifting in the wind, how different could it have on a nice sunny day with light wind?

 

[Mercutio]

It doesn't matter, see post #1076.

I did. You are wrong there, too.

Your ignorance of the things that are important to your argument is astonishing.

 

[Belz...]

Such as?

Such as speed, fuel levels, etc. etc. You know, the kind of stuff you tell us isn't important.

 

[MortFurd]

1) according to Val's photo, has it dissipated much? Doesn't look like it to me...

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20060806wap_Flight93_450.jpg

2) I think it dissappeared, or someone else surely would have taken a picture of it as this MONSTEROUS plume continued to drift, right?

3) It's a short pulse plume drifting in the wind, how different could it have on a nice sunny day with light wind?

Again, your opinion. "Doesn't look like it to me..."

That is all you've got. An opinion not backed by a single farking fact.

 

[Mercutio]

1) according to Val's photo, has it dissipated much? Doesn't look like it to me...

argument from personal incredulity.

2) I think it dissappeared, or someone else surely would have taken a picture of it as this MONSTEROUS plume continued to drift, right?

argument from personal incredulity.

3) It's a short pulse plume drifting in the wind, how different could it have on a nice sunny day with light wind?

So, you are saying that your theory would produce a cloud indistinguishable from the one that others say the crash would produce. What evidence do you have that would eliminate the other hypothesis? You do not have any.

 

[Belz...]

I'm trying to determine how the plume of your guy's estimated size was formed. So far you guys haven't done a good job at that. I'm trying to HELP prove your guy's theory, but so far it's not looking too good since we've seemed to hit a major stumbling block.

So, basically you're saying that, regardless of circumstances, all explosions really look alike ? I think he's saying that this goes against your initial claim that the "plume" on Val's picture doesn't "look" like it could be 93's.

 

[Pardalis]

1) according to Val's photo, has it dissipated much? Doesn't look like it to me...

How can you make such an assessment?

2) I think it dissappeared, or someone else surely would have taken a picture of it as this MONSTEROUS plume continued to drift, right?

Right. So we do agree that a plume of smoke from an explosion is a short lived phenomenon.

 

[Killtown]

Such as speed, fuel levels, etc. etc. You know, the kind of stuff you tell us isn't important.

I gave you all those favorable factors, you guys just haven't demostrated how the plume could have grown to be that size from the crash site. And no, magic is not acceptable.

 

[Pardalis]

BTW, Killtown, could you answer Mercutio's question?

Actually...let me ask you: If (I stress, if) you were convinced to your own satisfaction that your analysis was wrong, would you feel compelled to apologize to Val?

An what would be satisfactory to you?

 

[MortFurd]

I'm trying to determine how the plume of your guy's estimated size was formed. So far you guys haven't done a good job at that. I'm trying to HELP prove your guy's theory, but so far it's not looking too good since we've seemed to hit a major stumbling block.

For the hearing impaired:
We don't have a theory. You do.
You posit that the smoke plume is wrong. All we have done is show that it could well be correct.

It is your theory. Defend it with facts that show that smoke plume in the picture is not realistic.

 

[Pardalis]

you guys just haven't demostrated how the plume could have grown to be that size from the crash site.

I keep repeating to you that the plume of smoke was expanding, that means it was growing in size as it was dissipating. Isn't that a logical assumption?

ETA: So it could have reached the size it had in the picture at any given time after the crash (remember that the exact timing is unknown)

 

[Belz...]

Let us say someone comes to you with a blurry photo of something vaguely humanoid in a forest and says "look, this is a photo of bigfoot!" You say "well, perhaps, but frankly the photo is too blurry for us to tell. In order for you to prove that this is bigfoot we'll need some other corroborating evidence." So the guy with the photo says: "well, you haven't proven that it ISN'T bigfoot, so obviously my theory is proven. Nyah nyah nyah!"

That's not a valid analogy, as it doesn't involve an evil-clone insurance employee.

 

[Killtown]

Again, your opinion. "Doesn't look like it to me..."

That is all you've got. An opinion not backed by a single farking fact.

Does it look very dissipated to you?

 

[Pardalis]

Does it look very dissipated to you?

Pretty much. But I'm no expert.

ETA: answer Mercutio's question please, Killtown.

 

[MortFurd]

Does it look very dissipated to you?

It looks like it is dissipating.