Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

[defaultdotxbe]

or

c) when the hot air comprising the plume has cooled to match the temperature of surrounding air

(not sure what the answer is, just trying to put forth all possibilities)

 

[Abbyas]

Originally Posted by Yoink
Killtown, when are you going to revise your website so that it begins with massive banner saying "I abjectly apologize to Val McClatchey. I made baseless and scurrilous accusations against her on utterly non-existant grounds. I pretended to knowledge that I did not in fact have, and I in fact have no evidence whatsoever that her photograph is anything other than the genuine article."

Originally posted by Kiltown
Um, when you guys stop stalling so we can get through this experiment.

You promise?

 

[Beleth]

May I suggest reading: Mushroom Cloud^WP

They're not just from nukes, you know.

 

[Killtown]

May I suggest reading: Mushroom Cloud^WP

They're not just from nukes, you know.

Yes, a great diagram...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mushroom_cloud.svg


Now I'm trying to figure when your plume basically stopped expanding, then we'll move on to the color change.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Yes, a great diagram...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mushroom_cloud.svg


Now I'm trying to figure when your plume basically stopped expanding, then we'll move on to the color change.

well from the it seems the expansion will stop when the hot air rising through the stem stops

 

[Beleth]

Yes, a great diagram...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mushroom_cloud.svg

You mean you've seen it before?

If so, why did you only give us the option of a straight up-and-down || non-expansion or a V-shaped expansion, when you knew the real choice was a toroidal expansion?

This hypothetical reeked of trap from the beginning. You have been trying to coax us into stepping into it for two pages now. If it wasn't an obvious trap before, it is obviously one now.

Nothing useful can possibly come of this hypothetical. Nothing.

Now I'm trying to figure when your plume basically stopped expanding, then we'll move on to the color change.

Ain't my plume, pal, it's Flight 93's. And the color "change" has already been shown to be an artifact of the digital camera used, so don't bother.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

(deleted)
ETA: I've got something wrong here. Let me rethink this.

 

[Yoink]

Now I'm trying to figure when your plume basically stopped expanding,

This will be interesting "figuring out" to see. You don't know any of the initial constraints with any degree of precision, you don't know anything useful about the atmospheric conditions, and yet you're going to "figure out" when the cloud "stopped expanding"? (Do clouds of this kind ever "stop"? Don't they just expand until they eventually dissipate?)

then we'll move on to the color change.

Cute. Don't you need to establish what the color was at time A before you can assert that it "changed" color by time B? I can't see that you've established any reason to assume that there was a "color change."

 

[Killtown]

Ok, I think everybody's not on the same page on how the plume formed, so do any of you have a video clip of an actually plane crash into the ground (and not into buildings)?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Ok, I think everybody's not on the same page on how the plume formed, so do any of you have a video clip of an actually plane crash into the ground (and not into buildings)?

Howabout this: you go do your homework and come back when you have something of substance to discuss. We're not here to do your legwork for you.

 

[Mr. Skinny]

This will be interesting "figuring out" to see. You don't know any of the initial constraints with any degree of precision, you don't know anything useful about the atmospheric conditions, and yet you're going to "figure out" when the cloud "stopped expanding"? (Do clouds of this kind ever "stop"? Don't they just expand until they eventually dissipate?)

That's what I was about to comment on in the post I deleted above, Yoink.

I was trying to crank all of this through Boyle's law to see how KT's question of plume formation could be modeled. I relaized that there were too many variables to produce a convincing argument, so I deleted what I wrote (plus I re-read it and realized that it was pretty poor thinking ).

 

[Dog Town]

This hypothetical reeked of trap from the beginning. You have been trying to coax us into stepping into it for two pages now. If it wasn't an obvious trap before, it is obviously one now.

Me thinks you right. As I have said about him too many times, this is a game to the Mitnick like mind. Craves the attention,always a long strung out arguement, that goes nowhere!IMHO.

 

[CurtC]

Does the plume stop expanding? I would think diffusion would cause it to keep getting larger and larger.

 

[Yoink]

so do any of you have a video clip of an actually plane crash

Killtown: you do realize that it is incredibly rare for a large passenger plane which has had no chance to jettison its fuel to crash straight down into the ground at full speed, don't you? Why, it's as rare as, say, a large passenger plane being flown at full speed into a supertall skyscraper.

Do you really believe that video tape of some random plane crash under completely different circumstances--the plane, the fuel, the speed, the angle of attack, the atmospheric conditions at the time of the crash etc. etc. etc. will contribute ANYTHING to this argument? Really? You do realize that even if someone here found such a video and the cloud looked exactly like the cloud in the photograph the people here would be honest enough to admit that this would be no proof at all that McClatchey's photograph was authentic.

Look, either you've got nothing and are just jerking us along here for the sake of it, or you're waiting to reveal your dramatic "but even if all of this is true, what about" twist. Why not just present it to us? What is, in your opinion, the most telling piece of evidence against the authenticity of McClatchey's photograph?

 

[Killtown]

Howabout this: you go do your homework and come back when you have something of substance to discuss. We're not here to do your legwork for you.

Feel free not to participate in this experiment, Arkan.

 

[ghost707]

Ok, I think everybody's not on the same page on how the plume formed, so do any of you have a video clip of an actually plane crash into the ground (and not into buildings)?

Umm... you're pretty new to this "investigative" thing aren't you killtown?

You should have figured all this out on your own before you hassled Val.

 

[Killtown]

Do you really believe that video tape of some random plane crash under completely different circumstances--the plane, the fuel, the speed, the angle of attack, the atmospheric conditions at the time of the crash etc. etc. etc. will contribute ANYTHING to this argument? Really?

Yes, it should explode into a fireball when it hits and form a mushroom cloud. You don't have to make it more complicated.

 

[Beleth]

Yes, it should explode into a fireball when it hits and form a mushroom cloud.

Every single time, without exception?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Yes, it should explode into a fireball when it hits and form a mushroom cloud. You don't have to make it more complicated.

Yes! Darn those laws of physics and chemistry for making the real world so much more complex than Hollywood movies!

 

[Yoink]

Feel free not to participate in this experiment, Arkan.

Killtown, what you're doing is not an "experiment." Your asking people to agree to a bunch of unsupported assumptions--for what reason nobody can tell. Some people are being very kind and helping you modify those assumptions to make them more plausible, but they remain simply assumptions. This process that you call an "experiment" cannot possibly issue in any conclusion that will either prove or disprove the authenticity of McClatchey's photograph.

Let me remind you once again that nobody here thinks they have "proof" of the photo's authenticity. Nobody here thinks that there is sufficient information to demonstrate that what appears in the photograph must be the cloud from the crash of Flight 93. What everybody but you agrees upon, however is that neither you nor anyone else has presented a single, solitary reason to even begin to have a smidgen of doubt that the photo might in fact not be authentic. We also seem to be in broad agreement that your willingness to publicly slander her, while hiding behind your internet anonymity, when you apparently do not have any evidence whatsoever to support your attacks was base, cowardly, and dishonest.