Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

Is the plume in this photo from Flight 93 crashing?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 129 90.8%
  • No.

    Votes: 13 9.2%

  • Total voters
    142
Status
Not open for further replies.
Here's a question:
Do you guys think KT believes his own nonsense or not?

My last post here: We will never know.

Sadly this forum is not face-to-face. I've met posters here, discussed issues, and disagreed. We had a civil discussion. Killtown will never debate face-to-face. Unless s/he wants to. As far as I am concerned, anyplace, anytime.
 
Sadly, I do think he believes it. It 's like people who are "addicted" to drama, they turn molehills into mountains. They have to have some kind of excitement in their lives, I guess. Yes, I know some people like this. lol. I think believing in this nonsense makes Kt feel special, like he's one of the only few who know the "truth". He only sees what he wants to see.
 
Last edited:
...Did Killtown use an escape pod, or what ?

Ran away, did he ?


Of course Killtown ran away. But that won't be the way he'll tell it. Instead, he'll tell what few followers he may have left how he schooled us all, butch-slapped us, he pwned us, etc. For CTists, it isn't about debating or even making sense. It's about posting the same stupid thing over and over long enought to get your post count up, then running away and declaring victory back in Dylan's Nursery.

Killtown, what a character...even the LC crew can't stand him.
 
So did you guys every come up with an explanation that doesn't defy the laws of physics that explains how 93 with 5,500 gals of fuel on board managed to burrow underground, but somehow created a football field length fireball that didn't burn the grass growing around the edge of the crater and then created a 3 football stadium sized plume?
 
So did you guys every come up with an explanation that doesn't defy the laws of physics that explains how 93 with 5,500 gals of fuel on board managed to burrow underground, but somehow created a football field length fireball that didn't burn the grass growing around the edge of the crater and then created a 3 football stadium sized plume?

The same way every other high-velocity aircraft crash did it (as you were shown through various videos and photos).
your problem is that you are incapable of logical thought, and cannot differentiate betwee cause and effect. But don't feel lonely--most 8th graders have the same problem.
 
So did you guys every come up with an explanation that doesn't defy the laws of physics that explains how 93 with 5,500 gals of fuel on board managed to burrow underground, but somehow created a football field length fireball that didn't burn the grass growing around the edge of the crater and then created a 3 football stadium sized plume?
Well, look who's back.

Why on earth would we create such a theory? That's not at all what we believe happened.

How about you read this thread, and ask for help when you can't understand it, rather than making up stuff? We're always glad to help, especially those who are complete neophytes to science, such as yourself.
 
So did you guys every come up with an explanation that doesn't defy the laws of physics that explains how 93 with 5,500 gals of fuel on board managed to burrow underground, but somehow created a football field length fireball that didn't burn the grass growing around the edge of the crater and then created a 3 football stadium sized plume?


Killtown, which of the following photos looks realistic to you, and which does not?





-Andrew
 
So did you guys every come up with an explanation that doesn't defy the laws of physics that explains how 93 with 5,500 gals of fuel on board managed to burrow underground, but somehow created a football field length fireball that didn't burn the grass growing around the edge of the crater and then created a 3 football stadium sized plume?

OMG! Killtown is back! I don't know whether to laugh or cry (seriously). Not sure whether or not he still has me on ignore, but could someone ask him why the LC crew think he's such a tool? Yes, I know it's technically off-topic, but I'd like to hear his explanation.
 
Well I guess the 2nd one, but you'll just say I'm being biased.

I still don't get your guy's "aerosilized" theory about the fireball.
That's fine, since you are not an expert in any related field, it's perfectly natural for you to not understand fuel aerosolation. We can explain it to you if you would like.

Do you know what the word "volatile" means? It is central to this discussion.
 
We can explain it to you if you would like.

Do you know what the word "volatile" means? It is central to this discussion.
Please do Mr. Obnoxious, explain to me why 93's fireball "aerosolized" when the other planes impacts didn't.

And yes.
 
Please do Mr. Obnoxious, explain to me why 93's fireball "aerosolized" when the other planes impacts didn't.

And yes.
I see your manner has not improved. Not surprising, but regrettable.

Since you understand the word "volatile," maybe you'd like to explain to me how it relates to this situation? If not, I will be glad to explain. It does explain the difference in aircraft impacts, therefore I suspect you don't understand it at all.
 
I see your manner has not improved. Not surprising, but regrettable.

Since you understand the word "volatile," maybe you'd like to explain to me how it relates to this situation? If not, I will be glad to explain. It does explain the difference in aircraft impacts, therefore I suspect you don't understand it at all.
My manner??? You gots to be kidding me. Maybe you missed yours and just about everybody else's manners toward me.

I can't explain it, so go ahead.
 
Well I guess the 2nd one, but you'll just say I'm being biased.

I still don't get your guy's "aerosilized" theory about the fireball.


You didn't answer the question properly. We'll try again.

Does this photo look realistic to you?



If you saw a similar scene played out before your eyes would you find it a possible realistic scenario? Or would you perhaps suspect you had taken some wild drugs?

And how about this one?



Would you consider this scenario to be realistic?

You can say both are realistic if you like. I don't care which you think is "most" realistic, just whether you think either could be realistic AT ALL.

Thanks.

-Andrew
 
You didn't answer the question properly. We'll try again.

Does this photo look realistic to you?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_1015344eef5076dc30.jpg[/qimg]

If you saw a similar scene played out before your eyes would you find it a possible realistic scenario? Or would you perhaps suspect you had taken some wild drugs?

And how about this one?

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_1015344eef54c10875.jpg[/qimg]

Would you consider this scenario to be realistic?

You can say both are realistic if you like. I don't care which you think is "most" realistic, just whether you think either could be realistic AT ALL.

Thanks.

-Andrew

The first looks like if a missile hit a tank and the tank exploded. Doesn't look like a plane crash at all.
 
My manner??? You gots to be kidding me. Maybe you missed yours and just about everybody else's manners toward me.

I can't explain it, so go ahead.
Ever playing the victim, eh? If I treated you one iota as rudely as you've treated Val McClatchey, slandering her in the press so badly that the newspapers have seen fit to print her story, I might begin to have some sympathy. Go ahead and find my alleged mistreatment of you, if you feel so hurt.

Thank you for admitting that you don't understand volatility in this context. This would go much faster if you were more open about your lack of understanding, rather than us having to coax it out of you every time.

Volatility in this context means the tendency for certain chemicals -- in this case, jet fuel -- to evaporate in air. This is an important quality. It is this quality that makes it possible for gasoline to explode in glorious fireballs, as in movie props, yet also burn in a much slower, more controlled manner, as it does in your parents' automobile. Whether gasoline burns or explodes (the technical term is "deflagrates," meaning that the flame front travels slower than the speed of sound, as opposed to "detonates" where the flame front is supersonic) is a function of how well it is mixed with the air.

If you leave a quantity of jet fuel exposed to the air indefinitely, it will eventually all evaporate. But it takes a fairly long time. The reason is that only some of the fuel is exposed to the air at any one instant, the rest being surrounded by other jet fuel.

On the other hand, if you "aerosolize" the fuel, it means you are shaking the fuel and jetting it into the atmosphere, much like how an aerosol spray can converts liquid paint into an airborne suspension. In this case, the fuel is in small drops, well mixed with air, with a lot of surface area open to the air. This makes the fuel evaporate much, much faster.

This explains why the pictures you've presented of air crashes burn so very differently from Flight 93. As explained to you numerous times, the key difference is the impact speed of the aircraft. It is this speed, this kinetic energy combined with fragmentation of the fuel tanks, that determines whether the fuel is more-or-less poured onto the ground as a liquid, as in your infamous B-52 video, or whether it is streaked through the air in all directions at high speed, as in Flight 93.

In the former case, the fuel is not free to evaporate very quickly, and thus it burns. There will tend to be a dark, smoky, fuel-rich initial fireball as the evaporated fuel at the edges is consumed, followed by a lingering plume as the residual fuel, starved for oxygen, can only evaporate and burn slowly.

In the latter case, the fuel is spread over a much larger area, allowing most or even all of it to mix prior to (or during) igniton. This results in a far larger, more concussive -- but actually cooler -- fireball, with little fuel left over to form a lingering plume.

Because Flight 93 crashed so fast and so hard, it is expected that the latter case is more relevant. These crashes are also extremely unusual, which is why you've been unable to find any videos that are good models.

Do you understand? I can clarify if you still need more help.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom