Cleon
King of the Pod People
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
The trick is to understand the limitations, and the quirks of the breed.
I have a Greyhound... and two cats. The Grey is comfortable with one of the cats, and terrified of the other. We put this down to her having low to no prey drive, which caused her to flunk racing (She was bad at it.)
Greyhounds are often listed as 'NOT small animal safe', 'Trainable' or 'Small Animal safe'. Since most Greyhounds are placed with adoption groups who foster the dogs to check on their traits so potential owners know what to look for. It pays to be educated about the dog you want.
My wife and I know that Greyhounds can be aggressive towards small animals. So we watch her, and correct her if she's being a little 'too' interested.
I'm sure that the reputation of Pit Bulls could be improved if the same thing occurred. Try to learn the personality of the dog, and if aggressive, try to train the animal to break that trait. If found to be non or less aggressive, work to reinforce that trait.
Cleon
King of the Pod People
The problem is that responsible Pit bull owners already do that; but it's the irresponsible (not to mention stupid and often downright evil) owners that create the problem with violent, uncontrollable dogs.
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Captain.Sassy
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My mind boggles too. I mean come on, it's in the name- the 'pit' in 'pitbull' refers to a dogfighting pit. Dogfighting is what these dogs are here for.
I personally don't object to people having pitbulls, but I object to their use as pets. They should be kept as fighting dogs, and dog fighting should be legalized and regulated. Dog fighters should need licenses to own pitbulls, and there should be very strict rules about where you can keep a pitbull.
otherwise just neuter the breed out of existence.
sthomson
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The traits that make Pit Bull Terriers excellent at dog fighting and bull baiting (which is the source of the name "Pit Bull) are the same traits that make them excellent dogs for owners who are willing to work them - they are intelligent and loyal.
I'm not an expert, but in my experience almost any dog can be trained in bite inhibition, if they are started at a young age. If an individual dog is not trainable or goes untrained, that dog should be put down. But eliminating a whole breed of intelligent, workable dogs because most owners are too lazy or ignorant to go through the necessary steps? This only punishes respectable owners while allowing careless owners to continue raising dangerous dogs.
I'm not an expert, but in my experience almost any dog can be trained in bite inhibition, if they are started at a young age. If an individual dog is not trainable or goes untrained, that dog should be put down. But eliminating a whole breed of intelligent, workable dogs because most owners are too lazy or ignorant to go through the necessary steps? This only punishes respectable owners while allowing careless owners to continue raising dangerous dogs.
Captain.Sassy
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Very nice post, Shalamar. Breed temperament generalizations are just that. Many purebreds have been selected for looks only (in the beauty pageant show circuit), without regard to the original working functionality of the breed. But they generally pay attention to temperament.
I believe Greyhounds are only bred for racing and you can not find a Greyhound breeder that breeds for pet owners (not 100% sure).
Many responsible Dalmatian breeders started "putting out the word" and educating prospective pet owners every time Disney brought their original film out of the vault. (They are often referred to as "Damnations")
Backyard breederWP (s) do not help.
I believe Greyhounds are only bred for racing and you can not find a Greyhound breeder that breeds for pet owners (not 100% sure).
Many responsible Dalmatian breeders started "putting out the word" and educating prospective pet owners every time Disney brought their original film out of the vault. (They are often referred to as "Damnations")
Backyard breederWP (s) do not help.
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
If most owners fit this category, where is the need for the breed ?
Why do respectable owners, want to own a dog that has a reputation for being dangerous ?
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sthomson
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They are called pit bulls because they were used to bait bulls (and sometimes bears), just as humans do now for bullriding.
Again, this simply isn't logical. I personally think Greyhound racing is reprehensible, but if we ban Greyhound racing should we eliminate all greyhounds?
Most owners of ALL breeds fit this category. Perhaps we should end the practice of pet ownership altogether. Or, logically, legislate the ownership of pit bulls, rather than the existence.
Because these characteristics are NOT fighting-specific. Pit bulls can be trained as therapeutic pets. They are great working dogs if you're thing is teaching dogs to pull a heavy weight across a field. They compete very well in agility events. On a less practical level, they are incredibly loving and devoted (and actually make terrible guard dogs), which is sort of the reason why people want pets in the first place. If reputable breeders are not legislated out of existence, over time these working characteristics will be amplified.
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CORed
Penultimate Amazing
The site you linked to illustrates one of the biggest problems with breed bans: Identifying what you are trying to ban. What exactly is a "breed" anyway? Yes, breeds have registries, which try in various manners to restrict which dogs are eligible to contribute to the gene pool of the breed, but, if an owner doesn't identify a dog as belonging to a particular breed -- and they probably won't, if it means the dog will be taken away and destroyed -- it's just about impossible to prove, in any objective manner, that a dog is a member of a particular breed. It typically comes down to somebody's opinion that the dog "looks like" a pit bull, rottweiler, or whatever "breed" the politicians have decided is too dangerous to live. Identifying a pit bull in this manner is just about as scientific as saying that the collapse of WTC 7 was a controlled demolition because it "looked like" a controlled demolition.
Add in the fact that a significant percentage of the dog population is randomly bred, and may have several different breeds, or no purebreds at all in their immediate ancestry, but may nonetheless have physical characteristics that resemble a particular breed, and you end up killing a lot of perfectly harmless dogs because they look dangerous.
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
You can find Greyhounds bred for pets, those would me the very rare AKC Greyhounds. They're a little smaller than the racing ones I believe.
Greyhounds are bred for speed and temperament. An aggressive dog on the track that could hurt the other (expensive) racing dogs is generally either destroyed, or not bred. It is one of the reasons why Greyhounds make good pets. They're generally laid back and lazy. Mine just wants to be everyones friend.
Yeah. Puppy mills for 'popular' dogs can all but destroy a breed. I'm not sure Dalmatians ever quite recovered.
Captain.Sassy
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I thought the 'bull' in 'pit bull-terrier' came from the bulldog, which along with certain types of terriers, contributed to the breed's pedigree. The bull dog, for sure, was used for bull baiting.
If greyhounds were responsible for the number of maulings and deaths that pitbulls are then yes I would advocate the elimination of the greyhound breed if greyhound racing were illegal.
Note that I'm not calling for the elimination of the breed but rather its restriction and the legalization and regulation of dogfighting.
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
But there are many other dogs that do all these other things well and do not have the reputation that Pit Bull's have..
How many people, do you really believe, acquire one of these animals because they want an incredibly loving pet, or a work dog to fulfill a task that can't be accomplished by other, more capable animals ..
" Oh gosh honey, lets get one of those adorable Pit bulls to play with the children, pull a cart with my gardening needs in it, and of course take someone's face off, should the need arise ... " (
)
Skeptical Greg
Agave Wine Connoisseur
" Lots ? .. " ( That's what they claim, anyway.. )
No doubt, if Pit Bulls were gone, some other dog would acquire the title of being responsible for more deaths than any other breed ( and it's variations ); and the irresponsible owners would still bear the fault.. ..
P.S.
Just actually clicked on your link.. ( .. assumed you were pointing to testimonials from loving owners )
Pit Bull rescue ?
Lots of people are looking to rescue Pit Bulls that were abandoned by their owners, because they want an incredibly loving pet ?
No doubt, if Pit Bulls were gone, some other dog would acquire the title of being responsible for more deaths than any other breed ( and it's variations ); and the irresponsible owners would still bear the fault.. ..
P.S.
Just actually clicked on your link.. ( .. assumed you were pointing to testimonials from loving owners )
Pit Bull rescue ?
Lots of people are looking to rescue Pit Bulls that were abandoned by their owners, because they want an incredibly loving pet ?
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Morrigan
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Dogs are like people, good or bad depending on their nature and upbringing
Oh gods.. that made me sick to my stomach. Poor cat.
I guess. Still, the correlation between the breed and the sheer number of attacks... you can't help but wonder. Is it worth preserving this breed? They're ugly as sin, too.
Well, so far your support for this breed/line amounts to no more than pointing out that some individuals within the bull terrier line are sweeties. I have no doubt this is true, although I still wouldn't want them around small people without the dogs being muzzled (would you, btw?).
Meanwhile detractors can point at attack and fatality statistics. They can also point at the breeding strategy that gave rise to the line in the first place, and the underlying behavioural tendencies these dogs retain.
Your approach to the argument, however, reads like "aw... look at the cute doggie doggie here", so you might want to tread a little more carefully with your "grown up" remarks.
Cleon
King of the Pod People
As long as the dog's been properly socialized, I see no reason to treat a pit bull any differently than any similarly sized dog.
It seems to me one of the basic tenets of being a good parent, or being a good dog owner, is to be careful when introducing a large dog to a small child--whatever the breed.
Ah, there lies the crux of the problem. Are these behavioral tendencies inherent, or taught?
Pit Bulls are dogs. You treat dogs well, train them well, and they're loving, loyal dogs. If you underfeed them, abuse them, neglect them, and so on, you get an aggressive, vicious animal. It doesn't matter if it's a Labradoodle or a APBT.
The difference being that there aren't a lot of illegal puppy mills cranking out aggressive Labradoodles. Tough guys don't feel the need to get aggressive Labradoodles to display their masculinity.
As someone else noted, back in the 80s it was the Rottweilers that were vicious animals out to kill us all. Before that, it was Dobermans. Now we have Pit Bulls.
The fact is - any large dog is quite capable of doing serious damage to the human body if it gets a mind to. A domesticated dog is little more than a wolf that has lost its independence (not to mention intelligence).
Read more carefully.
I think these various pit breeds, and a lot of other breeds, are like matches. Matches are fine but you are careful about who handles them. You don't just get rid of all matches. Maybe there should be some sort of test to pass to own the more "game" breeds.
I'd like to see society as a whole stop tolerating aggression in dogs. I've got a few friends who are terrific dog owners - they spend time with the dog, they train the dog, and they don't push the dog into a bad situation, where it might get in trouble. And I also personally know an awful lot of people who tolerate their dog biting the meter people, their neighbors, their KIDS, THEM... it's not a good thing when the owner ends up in the ER. But why do they then allow that exact same dog to put their kids in the ER, and then their neighbors and so on?
I don't think it has as much to do with the breed of dog, as it does with the mindset of not only the owner but society as a whole. SO many people are so incredibly out of touch with animals that it's just astonishing (you'll actually see people thinking an animal is being "friendly" when it's actually displaying aggressive behaviour), but at the same time, there is this supposed care and concern for the animal. So why aren't they walking the dog, training it, keeping it confined to their yard and so on? I think if you actually care about an animal, you will do the way my responsible dog owner friends do - you will exercise, train, confine and truly care for the dog, not just talk about it.
I'd like to see society as a whole stop tolerating aggression in dogs. I've got a few friends who are terrific dog owners - they spend time with the dog, they train the dog, and they don't push the dog into a bad situation, where it might get in trouble. And I also personally know an awful lot of people who tolerate their dog biting the meter people, their neighbors, their KIDS, THEM... it's not a good thing when the owner ends up in the ER. But why do they then allow that exact same dog to put their kids in the ER, and then their neighbors and so on?
I don't think it has as much to do with the breed of dog, as it does with the mindset of not only the owner but society as a whole. SO many people are so incredibly out of touch with animals that it's just astonishing (you'll actually see people thinking an animal is being "friendly" when it's actually displaying aggressive behaviour), but at the same time, there is this supposed care and concern for the animal. So why aren't they walking the dog, training it, keeping it confined to their yard and so on? I think if you actually care about an animal, you will do the way my responsible dog owner friends do - you will exercise, train, confine and truly care for the dog, not just talk about it.