Pilots for Truth animation - What is it?
- Thread starter Panoply_Prefect
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Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
Animation is here:
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3696130
PDF's are here:
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3696132
No need to go buying anything from PfT now... Most PDFs seem to be available on the NTSB homepage though.
/S
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3696130
PDF's are here:
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3696132
No need to go buying anything from PfT now... Most PDFs seem to be available on the NTSB homepage though.
/S
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
Divx version (600 megs) available here:
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3696468
Oh, and feel free to post the link(s) on trutherboards as well.
/S
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3696468
Oh, and feel free to post the link(s) on trutherboards as well.
/S
Last edited:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=pilotsfor911truth.org
Looks like Rob's site isn't doing very well.
Not in top 100,000
Reach:
3 mos. Change Down 53%
Traffic rank:
1wk avg. 734,248 3 mos avg. 774,099 3 mos change Down 302,763
Page views 3 mos change Down 15%
Whatever he's doing it sure isn't working.
Looks like Rob's site isn't doing very well.
Not in top 100,000
Reach:
3 mos. Change Down 53%
Traffic rank:
1wk avg. 734,248 3 mos avg. 774,099 3 mos change Down 302,763
Page views 3 mos change Down 15%
Whatever he's doing it sure isn't working.
Flying topics must be too technical and boring. It is funny how his crack team of pilots are the only ones in the world unable to hit a target in the simulator. Are terrorist pilots better flyers than the PFT? Sorry guys.
When you're in a circle jerk with only a few of your buds, I'll bet the excitement wears off pretty quick.
I heard lyte was "busy" over there for awhile.How do you REALLY feel Calcas?
I guess he's spent too.
I wonder how the CIT sales are doing?
I think that there is something to his recent silence although it would only be speculation as to why.
He has in the last few days though reappeared in the Pentagon section of LCF.
I do wonder though why they took off the presale info from the CIT website.
Where has Merc been?
He has in the last few days though reappeared in the Pentagon section of LCF.
I do wonder though why they took off the presale info from the CIT website.
Where has Merc been?
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
Hi Slob,
in the list you posted I' don't see any animation related to United93, that PFT claims they got from NTSB.
What do you think about?
Well, at the time I filed my FOIA I wasn't aware of a U93 animation, so my FOIA was only for the AA77-one.
However, filing a FOIA for any and all such animations should be a quick task - what took a bit of time for me was the postal handling, eg it took awhile for the package to reach Scandinavia. I Imagine a US based FOIA-filer would recieve theirs in a matter of two-three weeks.
I might file one later this summer, but right now Im swamped with important tasks such as family vacation and stuff...
Cheers,
SLOB
OK Slob.
I've filed a FOIA request too and I've receveid just a week ago a letter from NTSB confirming the request and assigning FOIA request number.
I've requested all the documents and animations, specifically mentioning United 93 too.
When I'll get that, I'll put it online for downloading.
I've filed a FOIA request too and I've receveid just a week ago a letter from NTSB confirming the request and assigning FOIA request number.
I've requested all the documents and animations, specifically mentioning United 93 too.
When I'll get that, I'll put it online for downloading.
chriswgood71
New Blood
- Joined
- May 30, 2007
- Messages
- 9
I think you all are missing some points in the PFT message. What I got out of their site/data/animation was the following:
1) They tried to interpret the "raw" data the NTSB provided as best they could...the point is; Why did the NTSB not do a real investigation and try to piece together every single scrap of metal to figure out why things happened the way they did in all 4 incidents on 9/11? They claim on their site (NTSB) that the investigation was officially turned over to the FBI...Where is their NTSB equivalent investigation? Still ongoing? No. the FBI Pentbomm team has apparently been disbanded. Where is their report? Anyone with a link or more enlightenment on this would be greatly appreciated.
2) Aside from any official NTSB investigation or interpretation of data they "certify" as authentic, PFT has some questions about their attempts to interpret the data the NTSB should have investigated and interpreted in the first place...e.g: A. The flight path, magnetic north/true north bearing should have been more clear. Depending on which is used the flight path does not line up in one and may in the other...the point is where is the official interpretation of the data?
B. The altitude; There was apparently a barometric pressure adjustment during the flight ascent (when the change from local pressure to atmospheric pressure is made) which was not made again during descent of the plane in the "raw" data. The adjusted altitude would have placed the plane approximately 400 ft. higher than last shown. Again, where is the official report on this - subject to public scrutiny and defense?
C. The rate of descent. As I understand the contention of PFT - it is that rate of descent was too great to allow that big airplane to be in descent and then find itself in a low altitude flight path parallel to the ground as would seem to be indicated by the felled light poles and smoke trail in the pentagon video. It's like saying plane could rapidly descend at 10,000 ft/sec and then in a matter of a few seconds find itself low and parallel to the ground.
Anyway, beachnut I hope you can illuminate us all on these specific points rather than giving us a "non-specific to point" opinion and then point to simulations that may or may not reflect all the circumstances of the actual FDR data. As I understand it, those simulations you cite were to see if the turn and descent was possible...not including all the exact circumstances under which the descent was said to occur. Also not to mention the common sense questions they raise such as:
1. Why did Hani and crew not just fly straight down into the Pentagon when they first saw it...why go out of their way to fly a big circle over the nations the most powerful nation on earth's protected airspace and risk being shot down?
2. Why did all of the commercial pilots that had their planes taken over on 9/11 by these hijackers all give up their planes to some loudmouthed arab hijackers with box cutters? So they threaten there is a bomb on board...shouldn't at least one of the pilots not yielded their plane without notifying FAA of the hijacking? Or done more to not relinquish their plane so seemingly quickly and easily? Couldn't at least one or more of these (mostly military trained) pilots have put up more of a fight...or done a quick maneuver to cause them to lose their footing (seeing as they were buckled in and all, and the hijackers were not) and take back control of the situation? Shouldn't common sense dictate at least a little of what happened on 9/11? And not this incredible coincendence sense that seems to dominate "official" lines of explanation for things?
Anyway, I eagerly await anyone's reply. Thanks.
1) They tried to interpret the "raw" data the NTSB provided as best they could...the point is; Why did the NTSB not do a real investigation and try to piece together every single scrap of metal to figure out why things happened the way they did in all 4 incidents on 9/11? They claim on their site (NTSB) that the investigation was officially turned over to the FBI...Where is their NTSB equivalent investigation? Still ongoing? No. the FBI Pentbomm team has apparently been disbanded. Where is their report? Anyone with a link or more enlightenment on this would be greatly appreciated.
2) Aside from any official NTSB investigation or interpretation of data they "certify" as authentic, PFT has some questions about their attempts to interpret the data the NTSB should have investigated and interpreted in the first place...e.g: A. The flight path, magnetic north/true north bearing should have been more clear. Depending on which is used the flight path does not line up in one and may in the other...the point is where is the official interpretation of the data?
B. The altitude; There was apparently a barometric pressure adjustment during the flight ascent (when the change from local pressure to atmospheric pressure is made) which was not made again during descent of the plane in the "raw" data. The adjusted altitude would have placed the plane approximately 400 ft. higher than last shown. Again, where is the official report on this - subject to public scrutiny and defense?
C. The rate of descent. As I understand the contention of PFT - it is that rate of descent was too great to allow that big airplane to be in descent and then find itself in a low altitude flight path parallel to the ground as would seem to be indicated by the felled light poles and smoke trail in the pentagon video. It's like saying plane could rapidly descend at 10,000 ft/sec and then in a matter of a few seconds find itself low and parallel to the ground.
Anyway, beachnut I hope you can illuminate us all on these specific points rather than giving us a "non-specific to point" opinion and then point to simulations that may or may not reflect all the circumstances of the actual FDR data. As I understand it, those simulations you cite were to see if the turn and descent was possible...not including all the exact circumstances under which the descent was said to occur. Also not to mention the common sense questions they raise such as:
1. Why did Hani and crew not just fly straight down into the Pentagon when they first saw it...why go out of their way to fly a big circle over the nations the most powerful nation on earth's protected airspace and risk being shot down?
2. Why did all of the commercial pilots that had their planes taken over on 9/11 by these hijackers all give up their planes to some loudmouthed arab hijackers with box cutters? So they threaten there is a bomb on board...shouldn't at least one of the pilots not yielded their plane without notifying FAA of the hijacking? Or done more to not relinquish their plane so seemingly quickly and easily? Couldn't at least one or more of these (mostly military trained) pilots have put up more of a fight...or done a quick maneuver to cause them to lose their footing (seeing as they were buckled in and all, and the hijackers were not) and take back control of the situation? Shouldn't common sense dictate at least a little of what happened on 9/11? And not this incredible coincendence sense that seems to dominate "official" lines of explanation for things?
Anyway, I eagerly await anyone's reply. Thanks.
Common sense = ouch!
1. Dunno. Maybe Hani cocked up the co-ordinates and had to swing around to lose altitude. Maybe some disturbance on board with the passengers caused a distraction and they had to correct this. Maybe his fellow hijackers suddenly realised they were about to die also and tried to get him to abort. Who knows?
But ask the same question of your preferred conspiracy theory.
Why did the remote controlled/drone/fake passenger jet fly the route claimed and risk being shot down?
Or is the route faked? If so, why include such a large diversion from the path to the pentagon?
Reality and fantasy are both subject to the same questions. I suspect that neither of us has a definative answer.
2. Dunno. Maybe they believed that the bomb threat was real or should be taken seriously. Maybe the hijackers were able to take control and then kill the flight crew fast enough to prevent a mayday.
So, why should the conspirators choose a method of carrying out their evil plans which is going to raise questions about the pilots and the abilities of the hijackers? Why not make it watertight and slip in a mayday from the fake pilots (after all NORAD had stood down, right?) and pin the deed on some really big and beefy hijackers?
Do you think the NWO is just toying with you? Think they're just feeding some flawed scenario to you as entertainment as they watch you try to convince the world of the obvious illogicality of the 911 hijacks?
It's just common sense, right?
Hi Chris, welcome to the forum.
It's not necessary to piece together an airplane when the cause of the crash(es) is blindingly obvious, especially when the cause(aircraft deliberately rammed into buildings) is not an airworthiness/safety issue. In the case of TWA 800, they almost had no choice but to start piecing it together because investigators didn't have the foggiest idea of why it blew up in mid-air shortly after takeoff.
It's also not the norm to rebuild every airplane that crashes because the cause can be determined through other, less-costly methods. I'd even go as far as to say that TWA 800 style reconstructions are quite rare.
The investigation was turned over to the FBI, because the FBI has jurisdiction over criminal investigations. If a wing fell off AA77 just prior to hitting, then I'd assume the NTSB would've investigated that.
As was posted farther up, PFT was given a working copy of the animation which wasn't used in any official capacity. As far as the NTSBs official interperetation of the animation - I don't think it's normal for them to do that. Pick a crash, any crash - and see if you can find the animation AND an "official interpretation" of it. Good luck.
Why didn't the NTSB release one of their 500 page accident reports? Answered above.
"They" also adjusted it 260 ft high on takeoff. PA for Dulles was about 40' - but sure enough the animations starts at 300' which is the actual elevation of the airfield.
And are you talking about the animation or what actually happened? Hani did adjust the BARO knob on the way down. But pressure altitude is pressure altitude. It's always referenced to 29.92 regardless of the BARO setting. Also, if you look at the the CSV file, you'll see where Hani adjusted the knob and you'll also see how that had no effect on the pressure altitude. The CSV also shows the proper PA at Dulles, around 40'.
Why did the NTSB make several adjustments to the animation? I have no idea, but it wasn't to make AA77 look lower than it actually was(480' MSL). Look at it this way - if they did adjust it down - wouldn't they, you know, want to make it support the "Official story" instead of having it fly over at 500 feet?(Is PFT saying that it was actually at 1,000 feet? Thats lunacy.)
The official story does not suggest that the plane hit the Pentagon at a high rate of descent. If you are talking about the data at the end of the animation/CSV, its been covered here in-depth. Do a forum search for "FDR" or "Pressure altitude". Long story short, the data ends 2-5 seconds away from the Pentagon wall. The RoD cannot possibly be ascertained at impact.
The aircraft was still at 7,000 ft as it approached the Pentagon(to put this altitude in perspective, 7000' is typically reached 20 miles from the airfield on descent). I don't know about you, but I think it'd be pretty stupid to do anything other than turn around and descend.
Please define "protected airspace". Are you saying that Hanjour flew AA77 through airspace which was off limits?
He didn't. The airspace directly above and around the Pentagon isn't restricted, other than it being Class B which means it's congested, that is, too many airplanes are operating in it - quite opposite of restricted!
See here:
I'm quite offended by both the logic and what you're inferring here.
How do you know the pilots didn't fight?
How do you know that the hijackers were not well-trained in hand to hand combat and knife fighting?
How do you know they didn't rehearse their attacks ?
How much could the pilots have done from their seats to ward off the hijackers?
Have you ever sat in the cockpit of a 767 or 757? You can't stand up from your seat. You actually have to physically move the seat back and to the outboard side. It's still isn't the easiest thing in the world to get out of that seat. You have to swivel your body around to the inside, duck your head and standup, stepping back sideways....it's not the best place to be when someone is trying to kill you.
As far as notifying the FAA of the hijack. I'd say setting the ATC panel to 7500 would be impossible to do in less than 3 seconds. Probably impossible in any time frame, when someone is hell bent on slitting your throat.
Chris, I don't know if you're new to the whole AA77/FDR thing or if you just trust PFTs analysys. But there is an alternative viewpoint. Every one of PFTs claims has been addressed and re-addressed to the point of exhaustion. Please peruse some of these threads .
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77910
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79762
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78744
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77323
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77938
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77937
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66047
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77989
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77939
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77841
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77046
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76327
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73961
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71697
It's not necessary to piece together an airplane when the cause of the crash(es) is blindingly obvious, especially when the cause(aircraft deliberately rammed into buildings) is not an airworthiness/safety issue. In the case of TWA 800, they almost had no choice but to start piecing it together because investigators didn't have the foggiest idea of why it blew up in mid-air shortly after takeoff.
It's also not the norm to rebuild every airplane that crashes because the cause can be determined through other, less-costly methods. I'd even go as far as to say that TWA 800 style reconstructions are quite rare.
The investigation was turned over to the FBI, because the FBI has jurisdiction over criminal investigations. If a wing fell off AA77 just prior to hitting, then I'd assume the NTSB would've investigated that.
As was posted farther up, PFT was given a working copy of the animation which wasn't used in any official capacity. As far as the NTSBs official interperetation of the animation - I don't think it's normal for them to do that. Pick a crash, any crash - and see if you can find the animation AND an "official interpretation" of it. Good luck.
Why didn't the NTSB release one of their 500 page accident reports? Answered above.
"They" also adjusted it 260 ft high on takeoff. PA for Dulles was about 40' - but sure enough the animations starts at 300' which is the actual elevation of the airfield.
And are you talking about the animation or what actually happened? Hani did adjust the BARO knob on the way down. But pressure altitude is pressure altitude. It's always referenced to 29.92 regardless of the BARO setting. Also, if you look at the the CSV file, you'll see where Hani adjusted the knob and you'll also see how that had no effect on the pressure altitude. The CSV also shows the proper PA at Dulles, around 40'.
Why did the NTSB make several adjustments to the animation? I have no idea, but it wasn't to make AA77 look lower than it actually was(480' MSL). Look at it this way - if they did adjust it down - wouldn't they, you know, want to make it support the "Official story" instead of having it fly over at 500 feet?(Is PFT saying that it was actually at 1,000 feet? Thats lunacy.)
The official story does not suggest that the plane hit the Pentagon at a high rate of descent. If you are talking about the data at the end of the animation/CSV, its been covered here in-depth. Do a forum search for "FDR" or "Pressure altitude". Long story short, the data ends 2-5 seconds away from the Pentagon wall. The RoD cannot possibly be ascertained at impact.
The aircraft was still at 7,000 ft as it approached the Pentagon(to put this altitude in perspective, 7000' is typically reached 20 miles from the airfield on descent). I don't know about you, but I think it'd be pretty stupid to do anything other than turn around and descend.
Please define "protected airspace". Are you saying that Hanjour flew AA77 through airspace which was off limits?
He didn't. The airspace directly above and around the Pentagon isn't restricted, other than it being Class B which means it's congested, that is, too many airplanes are operating in it - quite opposite of restricted!
See here:
I'm quite offended by both the logic and what you're inferring here.
How do you know the pilots didn't fight?
How do you know that the hijackers were not well-trained in hand to hand combat and knife fighting?
How do you know they didn't rehearse their attacks ?
How much could the pilots have done from their seats to ward off the hijackers?
Have you ever sat in the cockpit of a 767 or 757? You can't stand up from your seat. You actually have to physically move the seat back and to the outboard side. It's still isn't the easiest thing in the world to get out of that seat. You have to swivel your body around to the inside, duck your head and standup, stepping back sideways....it's not the best place to be when someone is trying to kill you.
As far as notifying the FAA of the hijack. I'd say setting the ATC panel to 7500 would be impossible to do in less than 3 seconds. Probably impossible in any time frame, when someone is hell bent on slitting your throat.
Chris, I don't know if you're new to the whole AA77/FDR thing or if you just trust PFTs analysys. But there is an alternative viewpoint. Every one of PFTs claims has been addressed and re-addressed to the point of exhaustion. Please peruse some of these threads .
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77910
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79762
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78744
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77323
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77938
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77937
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66047
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77989
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77939
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77841
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77046
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76327
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73961
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71697
Last edited:
Peephole
Master Poster
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 2,584
Because they were too high up and would have missed it?
The procedure on 9/11 was to comply with any hijackers.
Last edited:
Also, the movie "Flight 93" shows a pretty good interpretation of how it may have gone down. Slit the throat of a passenger or two. Get a flight attendant to gain cockpit access. Rush the cockpit and disable (kill?) both pilots before they can react.