Welcome to the forum John. Great site you have there, and thanks for the info on the animation.
Pilots for Truth animation - What is it?
- Thread starter Panoply_Prefect
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Welcome to the forum John. Great site you have there, and thanks for the info on the animation.
Welcome to the forum John.
Great site, and great article.
None of their secrecy or failure to release their raw data surprises us here. PFT and in particular JDX has a long history of such behaviour. It is a shame really, but typical of members of the 9/11 truth movement.
I suspect they do not release anything until they have finished with it, because they know people here would take the data etc...and debunk it, or would point ou tflaws in their interpretation. The truthers do not really care about the REAL truth, they only care about manipulating evidence to fit their storyline and agenda, namely that the government carried out 9/11. I don't doubt that they would doctor data in order to fit their agenda...not in the slightest.
TAM
Great site, and great article.
None of their secrecy or failure to release their raw data surprises us here. PFT and in particular JDX has a long history of such behaviour. It is a shame really, but typical of members of the 9/11 truth movement.
I suspect they do not release anything until they have finished with it, because they know people here would take the data etc...and debunk it, or would point ou tflaws in their interpretation. The truthers do not really care about the REAL truth, they only care about manipulating evidence to fit their storyline and agenda, namely that the government carried out 9/11. I don't doubt that they would doctor data in order to fit their agenda...not in the slightest.
TAM
A W Smith
Philosopher
of course doesnt take long for balsamo to chime in with his smug self in the comments section.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=30572427&postID=4385669755405391091
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=30572427&postID=4385669755405391091
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
I'd just like to add that after starting this thread I filed a FOIA for the AA77 animation, which was granted a couple of weeks ago. I know NTSB doesn't use the fastest of deliveriemethods, but I'll guess it will arrive here in Sweden the next couple of weeks or so.
Any findings from this FOIA will be posted here at Jref.
Cheers,
SLOB
Any findings from this FOIA will be posted here at Jref.
Cheers,
SLOB
Outstanding
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
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Hi there John,
I actually stumbled onto your website a couple of months ago and was impressed enough to bookmark it.
But I do wonder, just how prevalent are September 11th conspiracy theories there in Italy? Is it a fringe movement, mainstream, widespread but discrete? I'm just curious is all.
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader, TLA Dictator
John(Gianni),
And another big WELCOME! I had also run across your site a while back and was truly impressed. Good site, good articles.
Please stay around.... we're always curious over here, so please don't misconstrue our questions as anything other than that - curiosity.
When you say you own a site.... Is it your site and Paolo's blog, or are you Paolo?
Why the perceived need for an anti-CT site in Italy? Is there a large faction of CT believers out there?
I know Italy has the full spectrum of political beliefs. Do you get the same mixture as we do in America? Partial anti-establishment left, partially bigoted right?
Are you a one-man(woman) effort? Or is there a group/organization behind the site?
Origins? Was there a group of debunkers/skeptics prior to this "debate" or were you inspired by the 9/11 CT inflammation?
I'm particularly fond of this in your English intro:
ETA: I just remembered why I first visited your site. (Someone here also once linked to the article.) I was googling "Whistleblower" with other combinations, and was surprised to find one of the links had an Italian name (of Italian-Jewish extraction), so went to it and was surprised to find it one of the best articles on the subject of the blueprints.
http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/04/whistleblower-wtc-blueprints.html
And another big WELCOME! I had also run across your site a while back and was truly impressed. Good site, good articles.
Please stay around.... we're always curious over here, so please don't misconstrue our questions as anything other than that - curiosity.
When you say you own a site.... Is it your site and Paolo's blog, or are you Paolo?
Why the perceived need for an anti-CT site in Italy? Is there a large faction of CT believers out there?
I know Italy has the full spectrum of political beliefs. Do you get the same mixture as we do in America? Partial anti-establishment left, partially bigoted right?
Are you a one-man(woman) effort? Or is there a group/organization behind the site?
Origins? Was there a group of debunkers/skeptics prior to this "debate" or were you inspired by the 9/11 CT inflammation?
I'm particularly fond of this in your English intro:
ETA: I just remembered why I first visited your site. (Someone here also once linked to the article.) I was googling "Whistleblower" with other combinations, and was surprised to find one of the links had an Italian name (of Italian-Jewish extraction), so went to it and was surprised to find it one of the best articles on the subject of the blueprints.
http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/04/whistleblower-wtc-blueprints.html
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Rob is fighting the truth overseas right now:
He always attacks when someone presents some questions or old fashion facts and evidence to expose his errors. I would not doubt he has information debunking all his claims about 9/11, or the lack of claims. He likes to say he did not say flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon.
Up to 40 pilots or people who fly, PFT is growing by hugh numbers, I remember when there were only 20 or 30 pilots who have no facts or evidence to support what ever they support about 9/11.
What is their goal?
Oh, that is a good goal. Kind of like nothing is our goal at PFT. Right?
Does this mean he beleives in beam weapons and thermite? Was a beam weapon used on the Pentagon, or was it just thermite? And are these groups members in each other groups? Kind of like counting some of the members of each cult a few times extra?
Okay I found the goal they want someone else to do.
The truth is out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But JDX says -
First Dylan tells us LC is about money, now JDX does the slip and it is all about money so he can do the hotel, talk at conference, and sell more DVD from pilots for truth, yet another ironically named truth group. A very small group at that.
He always attacks when someone presents some questions or old fashion facts and evidence to expose his errors. I would not doubt he has information debunking all his claims about 9/11, or the lack of claims. He likes to say he did not say flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon.
Up to 40 pilots or people who fly, PFT is growing by hugh numbers, I remember when there were only 20 or 30 pilots who have no facts or evidence to support what ever they support about 9/11.
What is their goal?
Oh, that is a good goal. Kind of like nothing is our goal at PFT. Right?
Does this mean he beleives in beam weapons and thermite? Was a beam weapon used on the Pentagon, or was it just thermite? And are these groups members in each other groups? Kind of like counting some of the members of each cult a few times extra?
Okay I found the goal they want someone else to do.
PFT wants someone else to do an investigation after JDX tells all he has the experts to do the job. But then he is not after the turth he is after
! http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/05/pilots-for-truth-flight-77-animation-is.html
The truth is out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But JDX says -
Why not protest the war instead of making up lies about 9/11. So telling someone who makes up lies about 9/11 he is a liar, makes you a defender of all the bad things going on in the world? There is strawman who needs to visit the wizard, now.
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My goodness, Rob is going nuts on you. He use to post some as JDX, or JohndoeX. He is very paranoid about things, and loves to ban people who watch his videos and at his forum.
http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/05/pilots-for-truth-flight-77-animation-is.html
Hi everybody, and excuse me for the delay with wich I answer to your questions. I've a lot of things to do and the time is always too much little!!!
My real name is John, I was born in New York but I live and work in Italy.
I've studied in Italy too, so forgive my poor english.
Paolo Attivissimo is a friend of mine, we work together on Undicisettembre site and many other things. We've just provided italian adaptation of "Debunking 9/11 Myths" , printed by an italian editor (we don't take a cent from selling revenues).
We have a lot of CT here in Italy, mixed with spreading anti-american feelings.
Italian CT found their easy way to influence a lot of italian people, because most of official data, facts, reports, articles etc. are in english language, so people don't know what really happened.
9/11 Commission Report is in english, debunking site are in english, and so on.
When I saw on TV an italian journalist in true difficult against a guy who was asserting that there were no airplane wreckage into Pentagon, I said to myself: I've to do something, to explain factual data in italian.
So I wrote a 200 page free pdf document based on 9/11 Commission Report and many other fonts, and I created Crono911 site.
Paolo Attivissimo was doing the same kind of work, so we met and became friends.
The job is now much more difficult, for CT
That's Crono911's history !
btw I've filed a FOIA request too, for both United 93 and Flight 77 animations, and for all the FDR data they have.
There're too much incongruences between various CSV files I downloaded from different sources, and now I want to be sure to keep an original copy.
My real name is John, I was born in New York but I live and work in Italy.
I've studied in Italy too, so forgive my poor english.
Paolo Attivissimo is a friend of mine, we work together on Undicisettembre site and many other things. We've just provided italian adaptation of "Debunking 9/11 Myths" , printed by an italian editor (we don't take a cent from selling revenues).
We have a lot of CT here in Italy, mixed with spreading anti-american feelings.
Italian CT found their easy way to influence a lot of italian people, because most of official data, facts, reports, articles etc. are in english language, so people don't know what really happened.
9/11 Commission Report is in english, debunking site are in english, and so on.
When I saw on TV an italian journalist in true difficult against a guy who was asserting that there were no airplane wreckage into Pentagon, I said to myself: I've to do something, to explain factual data in italian.
So I wrote a 200 page free pdf document based on 9/11 Commission Report and many other fonts, and I created Crono911 site.
Paolo Attivissimo was doing the same kind of work, so we met and became friends.
The job is now much more difficult, for CT
That's Crono911's history !
btw I've filed a FOIA request too, for both United 93 and Flight 77 animations, and for all the FDR data they have.
There're too much incongruences between various CSV files I downloaded from different sources, and now I want to be sure to keep an original copy.
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CptColumbo
Just One More Question
Welcome to the site John.
Rob is still kicking. Thought he had stopped posting but he is still manufacturing the truth and making the rounds on the truther circuit. I heard him on a web cast with another pilot who can not fly a simulator into a building. I was wrong there are a few people, seems like challenged pilots from PFT, who cannot fly a perfectly good airplane into a building. The wonder pilots at PFT, can not even hit a building in a simulator. They talk of the evil dutch roll in their modern jet. Bet they would sling in engine in the old jets I flew. A professional pilot how lets dutch roll stop him from hitting his target is not very good. The terrorist are better pilots than PFT at hitting buildings. I could damp the dutch roll as it began without the rudder damper. They must not be smart enough to turn on the rudder damper. Guess the terrorist studied harder than our cheap PFT, too cheap to rent a real 757/767 sim. The PFT can not fly, they even tell you on the web cast! A kid off the street can, why are these pilots so challenged in flying or are they just being deceitful.
The 757/767 are easy to fly, but our PFT have problems. Kids off the street have been able to do it for me in a sim. But why believe an old over the hill dolt such as me. There was another pilot who put rookies in a sim and hit the pentagon with no formal training. Sorry Rob, your best efforts come up short of the truth. Pick up your stray straw and visit the wizard soon, he is running a special. Thank you for the kind words. You still seem to be popeye on the whole 9/11 thing.
http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/05/pilots-for-truth-flight-77-animation-is.html
He is still pushing the weak story -
He is still basing his whole ideas on a video produce by the NTSB now call a "working copy" as he is trying to sell DVDs of a working copy. He is basing his junk on nothing. Then you have him using Pentagon Police telling a story different than the one they did in 2001. Just the same old stuff. Pilot for Truth? What a joke.
Let me see if the web page is there? http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/ Still there. They have John Lear, who thinks aliens are taking over and space ships come by all the time. Why would you have a nut case sign a news release? Rob is still out there, paranoid as ever. Actually in his above post, I can find no facts or evidence to support his conclusion.
Rob sums it up best, his paranoia is showing.
I am sorry if I call Rob a dolt, but he is the one using LT's stuff. CIT, they are not dolts, they are a crack research team!
The 757/767 are easy to fly, but our PFT have problems. Kids off the street have been able to do it for me in a sim. But why believe an old over the hill dolt such as me. There was another pilot who put rookies in a sim and hit the pentagon with no formal training. Sorry Rob, your best efforts come up short of the truth. Pick up your stray straw and visit the wizard soon, he is running a special. Thank you for the kind words. You still seem to be popeye on the whole 9/11 thing.
http://undicisettembre.blogspot.com/2007/05/pilots-for-truth-flight-77-animation-is.html
He is still pushing the weak story -
I suppose there are people dumb enough to buy his DVD.
He is still basing his whole ideas on a video produce by the NTSB now call a "working copy" as he is trying to sell DVDs of a working copy. He is basing his junk on nothing. Then you have him using Pentagon Police telling a story different than the one they did in 2001. Just the same old stuff. Pilot for Truth? What a joke.
Let me see if the web page is there? http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/ Still there. They have John Lear, who thinks aliens are taking over and space ships come by all the time. Why would you have a nut case sign a news release? Rob is still out there, paranoid as ever. Actually in his above post, I can find no facts or evidence to support his conclusion.
Rob sums it up best, his paranoia is showing.
You decide, I already know I am over the hill, next comes thru the woods. But have I ever been to Bohemian Grove? Was that the place in the Indian Ocean at 7 degrees south were I picked up over 100 lobsters in a few nights, by hand. That Bohemian Grove, or was that a Coconut Grove? Butter and lemon please.
I am sorry if I call Rob a dolt, but he is the one using LT's stuff. CIT, they are not dolts, they are a crack research team!
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ref
Master Poster
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2006
- Messages
- 2,685
Someone should definitely do the same thing in Spanish. Guys like William Rodriguez have the Spanish speaking world as their playground. Spanish speking people here, anyone?
Wait a minute, they actually tried hitting a building in a sim, but couldn't? Isn't that a bit like advertising their own ineptitude at flying, especially when there exists a video of an amateur doing exactly what Hani did 3 out of 3 times?
Nevermind, we're talking about John "Foot In Mouth" D'oh here.....the same pilot who didn't know if AA's 767s were fitted with ACARS(you have to be an airline pilot/avionics tech to truly appreciate the idiocy of that inquiry), the same pilot who thinks planes are packed on Tuesday mornings, the same pilot who can't differentiate between heading and track angle, the same pilot who can't figure actual DME range using slant range and altitude, and the same pilot who now apparently doesn't know that airliners have yaw dampers installed which all but eliminate dutch roll......sheesh.
They are on the record talking about it. They missed 10 times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm58cPH8L78&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Epilotsfor911truth%2Eorg%2F
The terrorist had tried to go faster sooner on 9/11 they may of had problems controlling the planes. But they lined up on the target and then pushed up the throttles. They only exceeded 350 KIAS for 20 or 30 seconds.
The PFT expert pilots must of sped up too early to control the planes, or the 737 sim is not very good, the pilots suck, or a 737 does not have as much stability as does 757/767.
Do you have the reference for the guy that fly people in a sim and hit time after time.
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-129851858930592160&q=zembla#27m40s
It would appear that the plane being used is a 747-400, which obviously isn't anywhere near as nimble as the 757 - yet the National Aerospace Lab gentlemen(who is not a pilot) had no problems hitting the Pentagon wall 3 times in a row performing roughly the same 330 degree turn and descent.....
Panoply_Prefect
Graduate Poster
Ok, so I recieved my FOIA. It contained two CDs and one DVD designated:
data-CD "AA77 Records listen in letter (except animation)"
Containing several PDFs:
AAL77_fdr.pdf
AAL77_tabular.csv
ATC Report--AA77.pdf
autopilot_AA77&UA93-study.pdf
Flight Path Study--AA77.pdf
Recorded Radar Data Study--all four aircraft.pdf
data-CD "All 9-11 records listed in letter (except animation)"
Containing several pdfs and a folder named "UA93-FDR-Tabular_files":
AAL77_fdr.pdf
AAL77_tabular.csv
ATC Report--AA11.pdf
ATC Report--AA77.pdf
ATC Report--UA175.pdf
ATC Report--UA93.pdf
autopilot_AA77&UA93-study.pdf
Debris Trajectory Study--UA175.pdf
Flight Path Study--AA11.pdf
Flight Path Study--AA77.pdf
Flight Path Study--UA175.pdf
Flight Path Study--UA93.pdf
Radar Data Impact Speed Study--AA11, UA175.pdf
Recorded Radar Data Study--all four aircraft.pdf
UAL93FDR.pdf
Video Data Impact Speed Study--UA175.pdf
data-DVD "AAL-77 Animation with ATC text"
Containing the animation.
and a letter containing the following:
"Regarding the American Airlines Flight 77 animation, the Safety Board recently realized that the time provided on this animation lists an incorrect annotation. Instead of "EDT (Eastern Daylight Time)," the time provided on the animation should say, "UTC (Universal Coordinated Time)." In spite of this error, the Safety Board has not created a new record with the correct time, as this working copy was never used for an official purpose; instead, the Safety Board is notifiying all recipients of this animation that the record includes an erroneous annotation".
I have no idea if all of this is previously known online, but I'll try to make everything available asap (I'll assume it's legal to do so, since its been officially released via FOIA, not to mention that PfT uses the animation as a sellingpoint for their DVD... If anyone thinks otherwise, let me know).
Cheers,
SLOB
data-CD "AA77 Records listen in letter (except animation)"
Containing several PDFs:
AAL77_fdr.pdf
AAL77_tabular.csv
ATC Report--AA77.pdf
autopilot_AA77&UA93-study.pdf
Flight Path Study--AA77.pdf
Recorded Radar Data Study--all four aircraft.pdf
data-CD "All 9-11 records listed in letter (except animation)"
Containing several pdfs and a folder named "UA93-FDR-Tabular_files":
AAL77_fdr.pdf
AAL77_tabular.csv
ATC Report--AA11.pdf
ATC Report--AA77.pdf
ATC Report--UA175.pdf
ATC Report--UA93.pdf
autopilot_AA77&UA93-study.pdf
Debris Trajectory Study--UA175.pdf
Flight Path Study--AA11.pdf
Flight Path Study--AA77.pdf
Flight Path Study--UA175.pdf
Flight Path Study--UA93.pdf
Radar Data Impact Speed Study--AA11, UA175.pdf
Recorded Radar Data Study--all four aircraft.pdf
UAL93FDR.pdf
Video Data Impact Speed Study--UA175.pdf
data-DVD "AAL-77 Animation with ATC text"
Containing the animation.
and a letter containing the following:
"Regarding the American Airlines Flight 77 animation, the Safety Board recently realized that the time provided on this animation lists an incorrect annotation. Instead of "EDT (Eastern Daylight Time)," the time provided on the animation should say, "UTC (Universal Coordinated Time)." In spite of this error, the Safety Board has not created a new record with the correct time, as this working copy was never used for an official purpose; instead, the Safety Board is notifiying all recipients of this animation that the record includes an erroneous annotation".
I have no idea if all of this is previously known online, but I'll try to make everything available asap (I'll assume it's legal to do so, since its been officially released via FOIA, not to mention that PfT uses the animation as a sellingpoint for their DVD... If anyone thinks otherwise, let me know).
Cheers,
SLOB
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