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Pilots fear threats from chem-trailers

as we know, some technically adept persons do buy into various cts thus it is not beyond possibility that one does come up with a plot to actively combat perceived chemtrail threats by, for instance, firing on a departing aircraft with something like an AK-47. With the right timing and from just beyond the fenceline of an airfield one could hit an a/c on the ground at about the time it hits its rotation speed
tires, engines, fuel tanks would be vulnerable
 
The plane wouldn't even have to be airborn to do a lot of damage. I could see a scenario in which a chemtrailer finally wigs-out, aquires some form of RPG/LAW rocket (stolen, militia or ,hell, even from Mexico) and takes a shot at a plane while it's on the ground. A fully loaded & fuled passenger plane hit by an RPG wouldn't be a pretty sight.

There must be plenty of airfields where the taxi-ways or runways are close enough to the perimeter fence that a shot like that is viable. Certainly at our local airport you could do it from several places.
 
Seriously? Either you think it's way too easy to acquire such paraphernalia

Where do you think the Mujahedin get theirs?

or you think way too highly of the abilities of CTers

Its only takes one or two. The more chem-trail CT nut jobs there are, the more chance there is of one sufficiently connected and motivated individual doing the job.
 
Where do you think the Mujahedin get theirs?

Nice strawman. You equating the two? Seriously?

Its only takes one or two. The more chem-trail CT nut jobs there are, the more chance there is of one sufficiently connected and motivated individual doing the job.

Therein lies the challenge: numbers. The only way chem-trail CT nut jobs bring down an airliner is as cover for some other group. The chem-trailers would be swept-up oh-so-quickly in a sting it wouldn't be funny

Fitz
 
as we know, some technically adept persons do buy into various cts thus it is not beyond possibility that one does come up with a plot to actively combat perceived chemtrail threats by, for instance, firing on a departing aircraft with something like an AK-47. With the right timing and from just beyond the fenceline of an airfield one could hit an a/c on the ground at about the time it hits its rotation speed
tires, engines, fuel tanks would be vulnerable

I wouldn't discount a nutjob with a laser either. When we (USAF JSTARS) were flying out of Qatar a few years back we regularly got lased by a high powered green laser (you can buy them on ebay) from various locations. The pilots had to wear special coated glasses on take off and landing to prevent eye damage but that was only AFTER a pilot and a non pilot sitting in the observer's seat suffered permanent eye damage.
 
I wouldn't discount a nutjob with a laser either. When we (USAF JSTARS) were flying out of Qatar a few years back we regularly got lased by a high powered green laser (you can buy them on ebay) from various locations. The pilots had to wear special coated glasses on take off and landing to prevent eye damage but that was only AFTER a pilot and a non pilot sitting in the observer's seat suffered permanent eye damage.

There was an idiot who got arrested some time ago (in Russia?) for dazzling commercial aircraft around airports. He had a collection of lasers. I can find some links if somebody wants them.

Amateur astronomers are quite pissed off by cases like that, because they have legitimate uses for high-powered laser pointers, and such incidents are usually the cause for legal restrictions.
 
Therein lies the challenge: numbers. The only way chem-trail CT nut jobs bring down an airliner is as cover for some other group. The chem-trailers would be swept-up oh-so-quickly in a sting it wouldn't be funny

The required weapons are not unobtanium. The IRA obtained arms, ammunition and explosives from Libya for many years, starting in 1972

Here is an example, taken from here

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/sept2009/ira-libya-compo.html

"In July 1992, the then chief police officer in Northern Ireland, Sir Hugh Annesley, estimated Libyan shipments to the IRA before 1987 to include at least:

Six tonnes of Semtex
1,500 AK assault rifles
3 Russian DShK 12.7mm heavy machine guns
Taurus automatic pistols from Brazil
1.5 million rounds of ammunition
20 SAM missiles
50 RPG7 rocket launchers

10 flamethrowers

The deadly consignments were delivered through Irish waters, landed on the coast of the Republic of Ireland and are stored to this day (2009) in bunkers within the Irish Republic, the location of several of these are known to the Irish authorities."



Now if a bunch of scrum-bag street thugs can get their hands on this stuff, what makes you think that a well motivated, well connected nut-job couldn't.

Also, I'll just mention that in In 1993, two US Army Blackhawk Helicopters were shot down using the same, Russian made RPG7s mentioned above. These incidents were the basis for the 2001 movie "Blackhawk Down"
 
The required weapons are not unobtanium. The IRA obtained arms, ammunition and explosives from Libya for many years, starting in 1972

And you think as a group chem-trailers exhibit the same degree of initiative as the IRA? If so, how about providing some real life evidence?

Now if a bunch of scrum-bag street thugs can get their hands on this stuff, what makes you think that a well motivated, well connected nut-job couldn't.

Interesting opinion you have of the IRA. I don't think I'd qualify them as you do in the slightest. And the phrases "well motivated" and "well connected" tend not to be applicable to CTers in general. This is not to say one couldn't possibly exist but I expect it'd be much more likely that I'd be flying to Europe on a jet-powered pig first.

Also, I'll just mention that in In 1993, two US Army Blackhawk Helicopters were shot down using the same, Russian made RPG7s mentioned above. These incidents were the basis for the 2001 movie "Blackhawk Down"

That's nice. If you really want to believe chem-trailers as a group believably capable of such mayhem, good luck to you. I would argue that the most active end of their spectrum might, might avail themselves of a laser pointer at best. The chem-trailer with an RPG/SAM meme has about as much grounding in reality as "Red Dawn"

Fotz
 
And you think as a group chem-trailers exhibit the same degree of initiative as the IRA? If so, how about providing some real life evidence?


Fotz

What I don't get is why is everyone hung up about commercial airliners and airports? Sure, if the chem-trailers managed to get organized enough to take one down at an airport for all to see that would be tragic. And about as unlikely as 16 foreign people hijacking four planes and crashing them into high priority targets like the WTC, Pentagon, and the White House... Wait a minute, that actually happened.

Unlikely, but not impossible.

Not as unlikely is these nutcases striking at airfields, where security isn't as hard to get around. Two or three people breaking into an airfield hanger and stealing an aircraft's engine? It can and has happened.

So I ask again, how much more unlikely would it be for a couple of chem-trailers to break into an airfield and shot down an aircraft or sabotage it in someway?
 
And you think as a group chem-trailers exhibit the same degree of initiative as the IRA? If so, how about providing some real life evidence?

How can I provide evidence for something that I think could happen, but which hasn't happened yet? e.g.

"ME: I believe NASA will send a manned mission to Mars sometime in the next 50 years

YOU: how about providing some real life evidence?"


Interesting opinion you have of the IRA. I don't think I'd qualify them as you do in the slightest.

The IRA were gangsters. The public perception of them outside of Ireland is that they were some kind of self-styled "freedom fighters" (or terrorists depending on what side you were on), but the reality is that their organised crime activities such as racketeering, armed robbery, and kidnapping for ransom far outstripped their ability to murder innocent women and children.

The only real difference between the IRA and the Mafia is the purpose of their fund-raising.

www.people.exeter.ac.uk/watupman/tandoc/leonid2.doc

And the phrases "well motivated" and "well connected" tend not to be applicable to CTers in general. This is not to say one couldn't possibly exist but I expect it'd be much more likely that I'd be flying to Europe on a jet-powered pig first.

I've done that; it was called a DC10!

That's nice. If you really want to believe chem-trailers as a group believably capable of such mayhem, good luck to you. I would argue that the most active end of their spectrum might, might avail themselves of a laser pointer at best. The chem-trailer with an RPG/SAM meme has about as much grounding in reality as "Red Dawn"

Not likely perhaps, but before 11 September 2001, there was not much likelihood of 19 Arab men hijacking four American airliners, in America, and crashing them into New York/Washington DC buildings!
 
How can I provide evidence for something that I think could happen, but which hasn't happened yet?
e.g.

"ME: I believe NASA will send a manned mission to Mars sometime in the next 50 years

YOU: how about providing some real life evidence?"

Weeelllll, you could provide some real life evidence that chem-trailers have done anything more serious than clutter the Internet. You could show some sort of real life evidence that they've done...anything...anything at all.

before 11 September 2001, there was not much likelihood of 19 Arab men hijacking four American airliners, in America, and crashing them into New York/Washington DC buildings!

But the possibility was there given precursor activities. The specifics of 9/11 might've seemed audacious and unlikely but they would've been a heck of a lot more grounded than your 'maybe chem-trailers might shoot down a plane' meme simply because Al Qaeda had done stuff.

To reiterate

The chem-trailer with an RPG/SAM meme has about as much grounding in reality as "Red Dawn"

Fitz
 
When I was last in Berlin, someone had spray-painted "STOP CHEMTRAILS" across the street from the main train station (HbH). So they can at least get a hold of spray paint. That's some initiative right there.

I explained what it meant to a couple of people who looked at me incredulously.
 
When I was last in Berlin, someone had spray-painted "STOP CHEMTRAILS" across the street from the main train station (HbH). So they can at least get a hold of spray paint. That's some initiative right there.

I explained what it meant to a couple of people who looked at me incredulously.

I don't blame them. I couldn't believe my ears, either, when I first heard about chem-trails, what they were supposed to be, how they supposed to be generated, what they were supposed to do (this one seems to be least fleshed out about their 'theory').

Made me wonder what had come of the education system.

I was 15.
 
You never know what might happen. I once found an anti-tank missile in an abandoned survivalist storage facility.

All it takes is for the right kind of nutbag to stumble across the wrong piece of weaponry.
 
You never know what might happen. I once found an anti-tank missile in an abandoned survivalist storage facility.

All it takes is for the right kind of nutbag to stumble across the wrong piece of weaponry.
Jeezum crow, what kind of AT missile was it?
 
to blithly assume that because the present collection of chemtrailies do not have the smarts or initiative to obtain weaponry that could take out a plane , tthis status quo will remain , is being unduly optimistic
A medium caliber fill auto gun with full jacket ammo hitting a plane on the runway as it approaches the shooter at rotation would cause a tragic downing
no rpg or manpad required, just attend a gun show in the right place
 
to blithly assume that because the present collection of chemtrailies do not have the smarts or initiative to obtain weaponry that could take out a plane , tthis status quo will remain , is being unduly optimistic
A medium caliber fill auto gun with full jacket ammo hitting a plane on the runway as it approaches the shooter at rotation would cause a tragic downing
no rpg or manpad required, just attend a gun show in the right place

In addition to that, it might not just be a chemtrailer. Many of these CT nut-jobs "cross pollinate" to other whacko belief systems. I'll bet you that vast majority of chemtrailers also fall on the side of 911 Truthers, Apollo HB's, grassy knollers, anti-illuminati, new world order, Nibiru Nuts etc etc etc.

As far as aircraft vulnerability goes, you are absolutely right. An aircraft is at its most vulnerable during take-off, especially in the few seconds after V2. Its altitude is low, its airspeed is low (only just above stalling), and in the case of a twin engined airliner such as a 737, you have two powerful engines going at TO power. A well positioned shooter, on the ground, head on to the aircraft, and equipped with a high powered semi-auto weapon such as an FN L1A1 7.62 could simply shoot into the intake nacelle of one engine, and it could well be all over in seconds. That engine would likely either flame out or catch fire, the other engine still going at max thrust would cause a transverse power loading that would try to turn the aircraft violently. The pilot will be likely hit with a triple whammy;

1. The aircraft is flipping over due to the transverse power loading
2. Not enough airspeed to turn in to altitude
3. Not enough altitude to turn into airspeed.

While it is a recoverable situation, the recovery success rate for take-off engine failure after V2 is not high.
 
A medium caliber fill auto gun with full jacket ammo hitting a plane on the runway as it approaches the shooter at rotation would cause a tragic downing...

I'm not too sure about that. Airliners are mostly empty space and poking holes in the pressure envelope won't down a plane, especially with no pressure differential. Even if you hit an electrical harness or a hydraulic line, you probably wouldn't do enough damage to prevent the airplane from circling around for an emergency landing. Cockpit windows are fairly strong (but not bulletproof) and would be hard to hit during a takeoff rotation.

The single most vulnerable spot would be the engine compressors. Shoot enough of the blades out and you'll fail the engine, and that would mean a rejected takeoff. It's not a "downing" but a rejected takeoff is very hazardous. The problem, obviously, is getting close enough to hit that target. My airport has fairly good perimeter security, and I doubt you'd be able to hit an engine from outside the perimeter.
 
1. The aircraft is flipping over due to the transverse power loading
2. Not enough airspeed to turn in to altitude
3. Not enough altitude to turn into airspeed.

While it is a recoverable situation, the recovery success rate for take-off engine failure after V2 is not high.

You don’t think pilots train for this possibility?

And what commercial airliner is not able to maintain flight on one engine?

I have flown behind aircraft dumping “chemtrails”, and have even flown through some of them without any ill affects. The only health concerns I have to this date is because I still enjoy a smoke.
 

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