Phoenix lights- ufo proof

[Nosi]

One thing that's always bothered me about the whole UFO thing.

So you're a super advanced species that's obviously licked that whole speed of light thing and are using those super advanced spaceships to buzz what amounts to a stone age civilization ( relatively ) and abduct a few nerds to see what's up their bums..

Why on Earth would they cover the outsides of these things in lights ?

So much for stealth.

Maybe they turned off the stealth cuz they've nothing but contempt for us tool using monkeys.

 

[Travis]

What I find interesting is how the UFO descriptions change over time. In the 50's it was nothing but saucers of the flying variety. Then in the 80's & early 90's it was cigar shaped ships and now they are all triangles. On top of this their motivations seemed to have changed. While the 50's aliens were all about taking humans aboard for some intergalactic sex romps on Venus the new ones seem to be all about cattle dissection, anal probing and memory wiping. Then, of course, there is the fact they have decided to only do this to the redneck demographic of the US. Why don't they ever do this to isolated bushmen in Africa or something?

 

[Limbo]

Then, of course, there is the fact they have decided to only do this to the redneck demographic of the US. Why don't they ever do this to isolated bushmen in Africa or something?

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118515119/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://exopoliticsnews.wordpress.co...hts-into-ufos-and-extraterrestrial-knowledge/

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles011.html

http://deoxy.org/ayalien.htm

 

[Nosi]

What I find interesting is how the UFO descriptions change over time. In the 50's it was nothing but saucers of the flying variety. Then in the 80's & early 90's it was cigar shaped ships and now they are all triangles. On top of this their motivations seemed to have changed. While the 50's aliens were all about taking humans aboard for some intergalactic sex romps on Venus the new ones seem to be all about cattle dissection, anal probing and memory wiping. Then, of course, there is the fact they have decided to only do this to the redneck demographic of the US. Why don't they ever do this to isolated bushmen in Africa or something?

In the 50's we feared sex. Today, sex is ho hum, but there's a conspiracy under every coffee saucer.

In the 80's, we feared Cuban Cigars?!? Some fear for their memories after a few too many goodies in the early days, and where does that beef burger come from anyway?

And we all know about certain American demographics and things anal. Triangles...can't help you...that's a head scratcher...or butt scratcher...

 

[Travis]

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118515119/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://exopoliticsnews.wordpress.co...hts-into-ufos-and-extraterrestrial-knowledge/

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/articles011.html

http://deoxy.org/ayalien.htm

In the 50's we feared sex. Today, sex is ho hum, but there's a conspiracy under every coffee saucer.

In the 80's, we feared Cuban Cigars?!? Some fear for their memories after a few too many goodies in the early days, and where does that beef burger come from anyway?

And we all know about certain American demographics and things anal. Triangles...can't help you...that's a head scratcher...or butt scratcher...

Well, you know what they say: "sometimes a cigar is just a kilometer long carbon fiber tube with an antimatter engine."

 

[Marduk]

What I find interesting is how the UFO descriptions change over time. In the 50's it was nothing but saucers of the flying variety. Then in the 80's & early 90's it was cigar shaped ships and now they are all triangles. On top of this their motivations seemed to have changed. While the 50's aliens were all about taking humans aboard for some intergalactic sex romps on Venus the new ones seem to be all about cattle dissection, anal probing and memory wiping. Then, of course, there is the fact they have decided to only do this to the redneck demographic of the US. Why don't they ever do this to isolated bushmen in Africa or something?

The answer is obvious, all Aliens work in the publishing industry and theyre over here drumming up business, so close encounters are just a marketing ploy

 

[xblade]

Why don't they ever do this to isolated bushmen in Africa or something?

Well, seeing as how they are isolated bushmen, how do you know it isn't happening to them?

Well, you know what they say: "sometimes a cigar is just a kilometer long carbon fiber tube with an antimatter engine."

And sometimes they lead to a stained blue dress.

By the way, if you guys are so smart when it comes to the Phoenix lights, how do you explain the missing time? I'm going with alcohol myself.

 

[stevenlchilds]

The discovery of truth has a degree of danger to it. There are those who want to find out and those who do not want to be found out. Conspiracy does happen.

 

[Marduk]

The discovery of truth has a degree of danger to it. There are those who want to find out and those who do not want to be found out. Conspiracy does happen.

unfortunately the only ufo conspiracies that theres ever any evidence for are all on the pro ufos are aliens side. Faked sightings, made up photos, false reports etc

youd do well to remember that this is a sceptic site steven, people will ask you to substantiate statements you make

 

[Nosi]

unfortunately the only ufo conspiracies that theres ever any evidence for are all on the pro ufos are aliens side. Faked sightings, made up photos, false reports etc

youd do well to remember that this is a sceptic site steven, people will ask you to substantiate statements you make

Venus the planet has been mis-identified as a flying something-other on several occasions... People do forget we live in a SOLAR SYSTEM with...neighbors that do get seen on occasion in the sky. I'm not looking at you Luna.

 

[jakesteele]

Two separate incidents: flares from A-10s in a military ops area, and a formation flight of Canadian Tutors overflying Phoenix at 19000 feet.

Since no one has come forth from the Canadian Air Force and no others claiming to be the ones, it should read, "It could/might/possibly be a formation flight of CTs."

 

[Comrade Raptor]

What I find interesting is how the UFO descriptions change over time. In the 50's it was nothing but saucers of the flying variety. Then in the 80's & early 90's it was cigar shaped ships and now they are all triangles. On top of this their motivations seemed to have changed. While the 50's aliens were all about taking humans aboard for some intergalactic sex romps on Venus the new ones seem to be all about cattle dissection, anal probing and memory wiping. Then, of course, there is the fact they have decided to only do this to the redneck demographic of the US. Why don't they ever do this to isolated bushmen in Africa or something?

Mbonga say bright light mean sore butt.

 

[jakesteele]

Mitch Stanley's observations are also important here. He looked at the triangle light formation through his telescope and said they were planes.

Law of Immaculate Perception – they are the only ones who see reality exactly as it is unhindered by any cognitive biases. So therefore, to disagree with them is to disagree with reality itself.

To quote foxholeatheist: "The witness are human and prone to human errors in reporting exactly what they saw... different people see different things from different perspectives, sometimes wildly different." This also applies to debunkers

Law of the amateur astronomer - the assertion that amateur astronomers, are "trained observers" who “look at the sky” so therefore, their word trumps that of police officers, pilots, air controllers, or anybody else reporting a sighting. (special thanks to Phil Plait, the Bad Astronomer/Debunker)

If 100 people witness a sighting and 99 are highly skilled, experienced pilots, and say they saw the real deal and the amateur astronomers says he saw planes, to a debunker his anecdotal claim is correct and the other 99 are wrong. Funny how that happens.

 

[Stray Cat]

If 100 people witness a sighting and 99 are highly skilled, experienced pilots, and say they saw the real deal and the amateur astronomers says he saw planes, to a debunker his anecdotal claim is correct and the other 99 are wrong. Funny how that happens.

Cool, now all you have to do is find 99 witnesses who actually say they witnessed a giant alien space craft (as opposed to the majority who say they only saw some lights) flying over Phoenix and you may be on to something.

Then give us a detailed examination of the video footage refuting the fact that the lights can be shown to be moving independently of each other and your case is even stronger.

See, I don't think anyone is just blindly accepting the word of an amateur astronomer in isolation, they are taking all the available evidence into account. The UFOlogists on the other hand, seem to be using the God of the Gaps tactic.

 

[CurtC]

Venus the planet has been mis-identified as a flying something-other on several occasions...

COUGH... Jimmy Carter... COUGH

To quote foxholeatheist: "The witness are human and prone to human errors in reporting exactly what they saw... different people see different things from different perspectives, sometimes wildly different." This also applies to debunkers

I'm confused here - are you really saying that the observations of a person who looked at this with magnification and saw that they were planes, would not be an important observation when trying to figure out what it really was?

It's not that he's given the weight of authority because he's assumed to be an experienced observer of the sky. It's because he's the one who looked at the lights through a telescope!

Back in my memory, I seem to recall something about a formation of ultralight aircraft doing something like this as an intentional hoax. Is that related to the Phoenix Lights?

 

[Astrophotographer]

Law of the amateur astronomer - the assertion that amateur astronomers, are "trained observers" who “look at the sky” so therefore, their word trumps that of police officers, pilots, air controllers, or anybody else reporting a sighting. (special thanks to Phil Plait, the Bad Astronomer/Debunker)

No. You are misquoting him and you are misrepresenting everything. Is this the first rule of UFO proponents? Amateur astronomers have a good knowledge of the night sky but they do make UFO reports. To be honest, I am not sure why since some of the ones I have seen submitted to MUFON are explainable.

If you ever read Allan Hendry's "UFO handbook", you would understand that EVERYONE is susceptible to misperception and mistakes.

If 100 people witness a sighting and 99 are highly skilled, experienced pilots, and say they saw the real deal and the amateur astronomers says he saw planes, to a debunker his anecdotal claim is correct and the other 99 are wrong. Funny how that happens.

No, it is a matter of reading all the reports and see common ground. In this case, we have hundreds of people reporting a formation of lights. Several examined them with optical aid and saw planes or indications of planes. Read the actual reports! Reading all the NUFORC reports from 1997 to the present (a total of 47 reports), I have determined that approximately 1/3rd of the witnesses reported a dark object, approximately 1/3rd said it was a formation of lights, an approximately 1/3rd stated it was a formation of lights without a dark object (by stating they could see independent motion or stars between the lights). Therefore, it seems all possible the the bulk of the eyewitness testimony supports the claim of the amateur astronomer. Finally, we have the Terry Proctor video, which shows the lights shifting formation as he recorded them. This ALSO supports the observations of the amateur astronomer.

You are applying another one of those rules of UFOlogists.

"If a large group of people report seeing unidentified lights at night and a few others report these lights were an exotic craft, you will conclude that all of them saw an alien spaceship"

 

[Astrophotographer]

Back in my memory, I seem to recall something about a formation of ultralight aircraft doing something like this as an intentional hoax. Is that related to the Phoenix Lights?

Hudson Valley UFO wave back in the early 1980s.

 

[Explorer]

Was watching an AI created video last night of the Pheonix lights incident, it was allegedly based on eye witnesses that had more of a close encounter with the phenomenon that night. One witness was driving a pick up truck in the film and stopped while the object passed over him very low and estimated as only thirty or forty feet above him. the depiction of the object was that of a chevron shape with several large orange glowing lights along the "wings", but very little detail of any other feature. In the message section, the actual witness driving the truck responded to the various comments made on the film detail. He said that the object was not a sharp chevron as depicted, but more of a banana shape. He then described the surface of the object as having hundreds of oval shaped indentations several feet in length, and some kind of dripping lava falling off the wing. After the object passed over there was apparently a coloured mist following behind. Finally, he emphasized what a life changing experience it was for him, and it had a long term and profound positive effect. He may not be the genuine article of course, and he could be making it all up as an attention seeker, but the detail was interesting, nevertheless.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't know about everyone else but I'm enjoying a warm wave of nostalgia reading these posts from once active members. All that rollicking UFO stuff was a fun time. Perhaps AI will hallucinate it all again for us.

 

[Explorer]

It did, but not as good as the witness statement.