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Phoenix lights- ufo proof

Astrophotographer said:
The most important evidence was the Terry Proctor video, which showed a formation of lights shifting position as it moved across the sky.
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Mitch Stanley's observations are also important here. He looked at the triangle light formation through his telescope and said they were planes.
 
CurtC said:
Mitch Stanley's observations are also important here. He looked at the triangle light formation through his telescope and said they were planes.
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I agree but it is ignored all too often by proponents. They claim he is a "debunker" (gasp) and is mistaken/lying.

The video is very important because it is actual evidence that can be examined unlike the eyewitness testimony, which is based on what the witnesses state they saw. The video clearly demonstrates there could be no object behind the lights. Of course, I am familiar with the argument posed by some UFO proponents. That being the Proctor video was of a different formation of lights (that traveled the same path at the same time).
 
TjW said:
Two separate incidents: flares from A-10s in a military ops area, and a formation flight of Canadian Tutors overflying Phoenix at 19000 feet.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights

"...However, no pilots have yet been found who admit to flying such a formation that night, and many witnesses continue to insist that they actually saw the entire object blocking the stars."



http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/azconc.htm

"But Capt. Michael Perry, squadron logistics officer for the Snowbirds, denied that any planes were in Arizona that month. "We don't travel ina V-shaped formation, and we don't cruise with landing lights on," he told Readers Digest." (Fitzgerald)
 
I can't believe I haven't paid attention to UFOlogists until just now.

This stuff is PURE F'N COMEDIC GOLD.

Here's my favourite recurrent theme:

Narrator: "...would seem to be strong evidence of an alien craft. OF course, some contend that what appears to be a spaceship is in fact [a bird/ a cloud/ lightning/ a snowflake/ a bug really close to the camera/ other explanation that is blatantly obviously correct as soon as you hear it]... but [disgraced academic's name] from the [insert unheard of university] maintains that this [erratic flight path/ rapid acceleration/ strange light] can only be explained as coming from out of this world..."

Wow.
 
U.F.O. is an acronym for Unidentified Flying Object. The key word is unidentified. So there is nothing wrong with saying that UFOs exist- because sightings of unidentified objects in the sky occur all the time. It's only problematic if you conclude that the object must be an extraterrestrial artifact because you don't know what it is.
 
The night before the event in phoenix happened i was dreaming about talking to a committee. We decided to send a UFO to the phoenix area. I have precog dreams all the time. I was not surprised to hear the event took place after I had the dream. How do you like those apples?
 
ravdin said:
U.F.O. is an acronym for Unidentified Flying Object. The key word is unidentified. So there is nothing wrong with saying that UFOs exist- because sightings of unidentified objects in the sky occur all the time. It's only problematic if you conclude that the object must be an extraterrestrial artifact because you don't know what it is.
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Dr. Buzzkill of the Joyless Institute for Mirth Eradication! Here on business, or just visiting our fair city?
 
stevenlchilds said:
The night before the event in phoenix happened i was dreaming about talking to a committee. We decided to send a UFO to the phoenix area. I have precog dreams all the time. I was not surprised to hear the event took place after I had the dream. How do you like those apples?
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Everyone has precog dreams all the time, but not everyone thinks its significant when one out of a hundred happens to contain something that after the fact can be twisted to some meaningful insight. The same can be said of you knowing whos on the phone before you answer it, you only remember the hits, not the misses

those apples therefore are rotten
;)
 
jakesteele said:
"...However, no pilots have yet been found who admit to flying such a formation that night, and many witnesses continue to insist that they actually saw the entire object blocking the stars."
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A. Nobody has come forward publicly but there are reasons for not doing so. Flying like that at night is not exactly according to regulations from what I understand. The pilots, if they are still serving in the military, might not want to reveal they violated these regulations.

B. The video shows that the lights were independent motion. That is irrefutable. There are no recordings showing a "dark object" behind the lights.

C. Nobody has ever stated the Snowbirds were the cause. The confusion lies in the term "snowbird". At the time, the military had a program called "Operation Snowbird". Units from northern states would come to southern states to get some proficiency training. As a result, the pilots heard "snowbird" and may have thought they were THE "snowbirds". Considering they were flying Tutor aircraft (which was also flown by the Canadian AF in 1997 in a non-Snowbird role), it is understandable.

D. When faced with the probabilities and the bulk of the evidence, it is far more likely that it was a formation of aircraft following the standard airway (feel free to look at the enroute sectional charts) than an alien spaceship that chose to follow an enroute airway.

E. Read the Zond IV link I posted earlier on why the witnesses made the "dark object" appear from a formation of lights.
 
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stevenlchilds said:
The night before the event in phoenix happened i was dreaming about talking to a committee. We decided to send a UFO to the phoenix area. I have precog dreams all the time. I was not surprised to hear the event took place after I had the dream. How do you like those apples?
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Precog is fine... but how come you people never have the foresight to give exact details of what you see until after the event happens?

How do you like those nuts?
 
TjW said:
Two separate incidents: flares from A-10s in a military ops area, and a formation flight of Canadian Tutors overflying Phoenix at 19000 feet.
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Why the :rule10 would Canada be flying anything over Phoenix or Prescott? Especially without saying squat? Canada is a foreign government, no matter how friendly.
 
Nosi said:
Why the :rule10 would Canada be flying anything over Phoenix or Prescott? Especially without saying squat? Canada is a foreign government, no matter how friendly.
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Foreign militaries engage in exercises over each others airspace all the time. Its quite common
;)
 
One thing that's always bothered me about the whole UFO thing.

So you're a super advanced species that's obviously licked that whole speed of light thing and are using those super advanced spaceships to buzz what amounts to a stone age civilization ( relatively ) and abduct a few nerds to see what's up their bums..

Why on Earth would they cover the outsides of these things in lights ?

So much for stealth.
 
Nosi said:
Why the :rule10 would Canada be flying anything over Phoenix or Prescott? Especially without saying squat? Canada is a foreign government, no matter how friendly.
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You can fly foreign aircraft over U.S. soil. It happens all the time. Since the Tutors were at 19000 feet, in Class A airspace, 'jest passin' thru', they wouldn't be talking to Phoenix Approach, but to some en route controller (I'm not sure where that would be, offhand, but from 19000 feet the line-of-sight of a VHF radio is quite a ways.). At some point during their descent to their destination, they would be handed off to the destination's approach control. ETA Even if the en route controller does happen to be in Phoenix, there's still no reason for approach to talk to them. The controllers are given different jobs, and talk to different airplanes.
So if some random controller in Phoenix hadn't talked to them, that's ... just what I would expect.
 
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Stout said:
One thing that's always bothered me about the whole UFO thing.

So you're a super advanced species that's obviously licked that whole speed of light thing and are using those super advanced spaceships to buzz what amounts to a stone age civilization ( relatively ) and abduct a few nerds to see what's up their bums..

Why on Earth would they cover the outsides of these things in lights ?

So much for stealth.
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Holy crap.

That is pretty much exactly what my next post was going to be.

Seriously.

Maybe we share a telepathic bond.

... have you thought about food in the past three days??
 
Nosi said:
Why the :rule10 would Canada be flying anything over Phoenix or Prescott? Especially without saying squat? Canada is a foreign government, no matter how friendly.
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.
The Luftwaffe had (may still have) an active training squadron at Luke AFB in Arizona.
We'd see their NATO camoflaged F-4s flying around Palmdale frequently.
And Red Flag has many foreign participants to Nellis AFB yearly.
 
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