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Philosophy of science: Does every adult have a gender identity?

Does every adult have a gender identity?

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • No

    Votes: 8 66.7%

  • Don't know

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
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To the OP question: what other qualia should we speculate about? I mean, how would I know what someone else is experiencing, or how it would differ from my experience?
 
Thermal said:
...what other qualia should we speculate about?
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I'm not sure gender identity (however defined) falls in that category, since it doesn't seem like a form of subjective perceptual experience.

I know what it is like to feel hungry, dizzy, hot, cold, etc. but I'm not sure what it is like to feel (wo)manly.
 
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d4m10n said:
I'm not sure gender identity (however defined) falls in that category, since it doesn't seem like a form of subjective perceptual experience.

I'm unsure whether it is even based on qualia.
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If another person's gender identity is not their own experience, what is it?
 
I don't know. I haven't thought about my own all that much, made easy by being a pretty gender typical male in a male body. Do, I have a gender identy, I guess so.
 
catsmate said:
The Genderbread Person.
www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com

The Genderbread Person version 4 - ❤ It's Pronounced Metrosexual

For 2018 and beyond, my fourth take on this tasty little introduction to understanding gender.
www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com www.itspronouncedmetrosexual.com
Click to expand...
The Gender Unicorn
transstudent.org

Gender Unicorn -

Note: There is an interactive version of the Gender Unicorn that is only visible on desktop. English Coloring Book (English) Español (Spanish) Português (Portuguese) ру́сский язы́к (Russian) 日本語 (Japanese) Deutsch (German) Français (French) italiano (Italian) ภาษาไทย (Thai) Türkçe (Turkish)...
transstudent.org transstudent.org
 
d4m10n said:
The Gender Unicorn
transstudent.org

Gender Unicorn -

Note: There is an interactive version of the Gender Unicorn that is only visible on desktop. English Coloring Book (English) Español (Spanish) Português (Portuguese) ру́сский язы́к (Russian) 日本語 (Japanese) Deutsch (German) Français (French) italiano (Italian) ภาษาไทย (Thai) Türkçe (Turkish)...
transstudent.org transstudent.org
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I see we're still not doing "sex observed at birth".

These charts seem to make things even more confusing.
 
theprestige said:
These charts seem to make things even more confusing.
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Mostly I shared it for the explanatory notes, e.g.

Gender Identity: One’s internal sense of being male, female, neither of these, both, or another gender(s).
Everyone has a gender identity, including you.​

It's that last bit that I'm being skeptical about at the moment; I know what it is like to feel hungry, dizzy, hot, cold, etc. but I've little idea what it is like to feel manly, womanly, neitherly, bothly, or otherly.
 
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d4m10n said:
Mostly I shared it for the explanatory notes, e.g.

Gender Identity: One’s internal sense of being male, female, neither of these, both, or another gender(s). Everyone has a gender identity, including you.​

(Emphasis mine)

It's that last bit that I'm being skeptical about at the moment.
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I don't have an internal sense of being male. I have an internal sense of being me.

These charts aren't explaining anything. They're telling Just So stories that you can take or leave according to your whims.
 
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d4m10n said:
Mostly I shared it for the explanatory notes, e.g.

Gender Identity: One’s internal sense of being male, female, neither of these, both, or another gender(s).​
Everyone has a gender identity, including you.​

It's that last bit that I'm being skeptical about at the moment; I know what it is like to feel hungry, dizzy, hot, cold, etc. but I've little idea what it is like to feel manly, womanly, neitherly, bothly, or otherly.
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Perhaps you are not "neurotypical"? We often assume that other people's internal private behaviours are the same as ours. It could be that you do lack one of the internal behaviours that most of us have.

Another idea for discussion - does your sense of "me" match for example the social gender of "man"? To use myself as an example - when I was around 18 the commonly used gender "man" was (partly) defined as having the male bits and having or at least wanting to have sex with those that had the female bits. When I compared that gender description to my internal sense of me it didn't match. So by both society and my internal sense of myself I was not of the gender "man".
 
d4m10n said:
Not even sure I have that, without checking in the mirror.

(Too much sci-fi in my media diet.)
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Does sound as if you have different internal behaviours to what most* other folk have.


*Assumption - I don't think there has been research to determine what a or the majority have.
 
Darat said:
We often assume that other people's internal private behaviours are the same as ours.
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As I said, I can think of plenty of "internal senses" which I have in common with others, such as the experience of hunger, nausea, body temperature, bladder or bowel urgency, orientation relative to gravity, or proprioception. I don't know if we all experience these things in the same way, but I'm pretty sure we're all talking about the same things when we talk about them. When I wake up in the morning, I can feel different than baseline comfortable in any of those ways, but none of them are gendered or sexed.
Darat said:
does your sense of "me" match for example the social gender of "man"?
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I'm more comfortable in athletic shorts than a drop-waist skirt, but this is where we have to be careful to keep "gender identity" and "gender expression" separate, according to the genderbreadists. Can I get some non-expressive examples of either social gender?
Darat said:
Does sound as if you have different internal behaviours...
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Do other people wake up and not check their tattoos to be sure they are in the same body? :p
 
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d4m10n said:
I'd say they are useful for defining the relevant terminology, since they are designed to be broadly accessible rather than scholarly.
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"Everyone has a gender identity, even you" isn't a lay translation of a scholarly principle. It's an ideological claim.

ETA: I can tell the whole thing is ideological, not scholarly, because of the sources they cite:

Sources:​
Queer and trans organizers have been making the distinction between gender identity, gender presentation/expression, sex, and attraction for decades. No one person or organization has created the concept. However, similar gender mapping concepts to the unicorn seem to have originated on social media sites like Tumblr.​

"Queer and trans organizers... social media... Tumblr." It's Just So stories all the way down. This whole thing is designed to teach children one faction's ideology.
 
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theprestige said:
"Everyone has a gender identity, even you" isn't a lay translation of a scholarly principle. It's an ideological claim.
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If it really is as simple as "gender identity is what you believe you are, regardless of your genitalia", that's at least a solid jumping off point?
 
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