PETA and Foie Gras

[Meed]

I don't trust out of context statistics. I would want to know the living conditions for both sets of birds, what vets say the birds actually died of, etc. I would also want to know whether both numbers, which are quoted in two different sources, were obtained using the same methods. A number by itself does not indicate force feeding is harmful. And it does not, by itself, indicate force feeding is cruel.

A mortality rate 25 times higher than normal either indicates that force feeding is harmful or that the living conditions at Hudson Valley are highly substandard.

And once again, you're describing evidence you've seen from the Canadian farm, which is a bit dishonest when discussing this article on the conditions of a different farm in a different country. You also seem to be missing the point, that your prized photos and videos from the Canadian farm do not prove that foie gras farming is inherently cruel.

I don't know what farms the liver pictures I've seen have come from and I don't know why you're assuming they came from a specific Canadian farm. All foie gras farms have to enlarge the liver way beyond its normal size or else they cannot legally classify their product as "foie gras". I don't see why the specific farm matters in this regard.

You've still given no reason to believe that foie gras production is inherently cruel. You've only given a case for why a particular farm in Canada uses cruel methods. I wish I could spell out the difference more but I don't know what else to say to get it home. It's a logical fallacy to conclude from some A is the case that all A is the case.

I never made any claims about anything being "inherently cruel" so I don't know where that came from. However, a 10-25 fold increase in mortality rate is a good reason to believe that force feeding is harmful to ducks, in my opinion.

 

[Meed]

It seems to be more like:

-I don't like what's going on in the PETA/animal rights videos.
-Competing views exist as to whether conditions are this bad in all foie gras farms.
-Rather than weigh the evidence and positions of both views and critically think about the subject, I choose to go with the view that most fits my preconceived notions about foie gras.
-Therefore, all foie gras is bad.
-Therefore, all foie gras should be banned.

I think you are being very dishonest (if you are directing this at me). If not you should be able to point to where I've made this argument. I don't even recall making any claims about whether foie gras should be banned or not.

 

[Meed]

I'm glad you read the article, cornsail. Didn't know how much discussion my post would provoke! Since you admit you're a near-vegan, perhaps this proves my hypothesis about vegan/vegetarian opposition to foie gras production.

Obviously veg*ns are more far more likely to oppose foie gras than omnivores. My point was that many omnis also oppose foie gras, whereas they do not oppose meat in general (Travis who posted ITT "proves" my hypothesis to the same degree that I "prove" your hypothesis, although neither are very good evidence since this thread gives such a small sample size).

 

[RandFan]

I'd like to interject my opinion of the analysis so far.

• The Bourdain video, though interesting, doesn't appear to be purposefully objective but instead there are some valid reasons to be skeptical of it.
• There are valid reasons to believe that any and all production of foie gras causes some degree of suffering to the geese.
• There is some evidence to believe that the harm of producing foie gras can be mitigated.

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. I do not believe that animal husbandry or the consumption of many non-human animals by humans is per se immoral.

I've never tried foie gras and don't intend to. The thread, so far, has not resulted in my thinking that preferences for foie gras justify its production. These are JUST my opinions. I will continue to keep an open mind.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far.

 

[Paul2]

That depends on the geese. I've found Cape Barren Geese to be friendly enough.

But they tend to have a very stricted habitat. ; )

 

[Meed]

I'd like to interject my opinion of the analysis so far.

• The Bourdain video, though interesting, doesn't appear to be purposefully objective but instead there are some valid reasons to be skeptical of it.
• There are valid reasons to believe that any and all production of foie gras causes some degree of suffering to the geese.
• There is some evidence to believe that the harm of producing foie gras can be mitigated.

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. I do not believe that animal husbandry or the consumption of many non-human animals by humans is per se immoral.

I agree on all points.

 

[citizenzen]

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian. I do not believe that animal husbandry or the consumption of many non-human animals by humans is per se immoral.

I'm a 20-year vegetarian and I also do not believe that animal husbandry or the consumption of many non-human animals by humans is per se immoral.

But that doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

And I know ... you didn't imply otherwise.

 

[RandFan]

I'm a 20-year vegetarian and I also do not believe that animal husbandry or the consumption of many non-human animals by humans is per se immoral.

But that doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

And I know ... you didn't imply otherwise.

I agree completely. I support reforms to reduce animal suffering.

 

[Drewbot]

I was having a cruelty discussion while having dinner at the Eiffel Tower Resaurant in Las Vegas. It went a little something like this:

Me:

Hey, I'm all for not torturing animals, and making their existence as painle- OH MY GOD THIS FOIE GRAS IS SO GOOD NOM NOM NOM...

 

[The Don]

How much of the global veal market does it comprise though?

Dunno but it's 100% of the market round here and I'm trying my best to support that market

 

[NewtonTrino]

The thing about veal is that for some reason I don't think it's that tasty. Therefore I rarely eat it.

Foie Gras on the other hand is the bomb.

 

[Skeletor]

You can order foie gras from Hudson Valley on-line:
*Hudson Valley URL Redacted*

It ain't cheap and you get the whole liver. That's a lot of foie gras. It does freeze pretty well though.

I didn't realize the liver ends up being 1.5 lbs; that's a lot of hors d'oeuvres! The liver on the site looks different than the other pics of fat livers floating around in this thread.
I'll have to bookmark this site, the gift basket looks like it'd be nice around Thanksgiving.

There used to be a site that listed restaurants that served foie gras in an effort to get people to boycott the restaurants. I found it a great resource to find a restaurant that served my wife's favorite dish. How's that for irony? I can't remember what the site was though.

I'm sure that it's still available, but given my limitations I couldn't post the URL even if I knew it. It's probably a site run by a PETA-affiliated group guiding them to protest and harass customers. Good you used their site for a constructive purpose!

 

[Roboramma]

That's a catch-all that covers way too much ground of course, but for the most part my ethics come down to doing what I can not to hurt other human beings. See my first sentence above.

That's rather arbitrary. If Neanderthals were still around, would you extend consideration to them?