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Perpetual motion machine examination rules, please.

Gr8wight,
I merely asked a question. I have hope, Gr8wight, that you could point to anything I asked that would seem like an attack to you.
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I see the problem; you mistook to for of.

It seems you are the one that has attacked me. I'm sure you feel justified.

  • Gene, I have this to say to you: Go jump in a lake. Make it one of the Great Lakes, because they are really polluted...and cold, and that would be much more unpleasant for you.
  • Just go get yourself lost somewhere. You are a horrible person. I sincerely hope you never have to endure what Mr Randi has endured.

I'll just let it go, Gr8. You don't seem to be following too well.

Gene
 
AgingYoung said:
I'll just let it go, Gr8. You don't seem to be following too well.
Click to expand...

You're the one making unfounded claims about your abilities and about the JREF and about James Randi. The people here are pretty smart and can actually read your posts and figure out what's going on. People aren't going to believe things just because you say them. There's a whole world of other people that exist outside of yourself and we have our own thoughts and feelings.
 
You're the one making unfounded claims about your abilities and about the JREF and about James Randi.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you're talking about. It might clear things up if you could cite an actual example of those three (edit) allegations.
People (nor am I going to believe your allegations without some sort of reference and explaination as to what you're talking about) aren't going to believe things just because you say them. There's a whole world of other people that exist outside of yourself and we have our own thoughts and feelings .
Click to expand...
How do you feel about citing some facts?

Gene
 
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I finally have wm2d up and running. What an amazing piece of software. I've had the demo version for some time but I've never really looked at it. Any model building most anyone could do wouldn't approach the precision you can achieve with wm2d. If you've ever used cad you know what I mean. It is one thing to have a sense of the power of a cad system yet quite another to have actually used one.

The precision combined with the speed at which you can build a model make wm2d a very powerful tool. I can't hardly stop playing with ideas long enough to test some concepts that I have. One in particular is a gravity actuated accelerator. There are other ideas that I want to model but unless your interested in perpetu*woo*motion you'd be bored.

Well, it's back to some model building. I'm not too certain if there's such a thing as perpetu*woo*motion or not. If I can ever catch up with an electron I'll have to ask it.

Gene
 
"Back and forth and back again, to or not to be,
Lizzy's gettin' dizzy, she should have known it from the start:
Being rich is just a lifestyle, being alive is just a part."

dEUS
 
Hello GzuzKryzt,

Have you ever used a cad (computer aided design) software? I mentioned the idea of precision. With this program I can make two curved bodies tangent to 1/1000th of a meter on a 10 meter gear at any particular rotation of either. It's a pretty powerful tool. What I'm finding kind of dizzying is figuring out what that point of tangency is. If the curves are a little apart when the simulation runs they bump back and forth but if they're overlapping by 1/1000th of a meter you get an error message. I won't bore you with the details of the Edison test but I think I've figured out a method similar to do the calculations.

Another thing that kind of slows me down is the idea of using radians instead of degrees. If I want a rotation of a nice round number like 180° I have to paste in pi.

The learning curve of using a new software is a given although wm2d is very similar to MacDraw or paint. That curve isn't in the building of some models; it is in figuring out the method to quickly take advantage of the precision available.

Once a model moves slightly it's almost impossible to put it back in the same position that you imagined it should be if there's slop in the design. You could spend all day and still not reposition it to it's original position. I've figured out how to reposition a model to it's original in a matter of minutes. Figuring out how to quickly deal with the eventual problems any one would have has taken some time. I'm really enjoying it.

I've made some models that oscillate yet eventually manage to throw some of it's mass over the center to manage a rotation. These are on maybe a 10 meter diameter and maybe 6-12 masses anywhere from 5 to 50 kilograms. I use a default pin friction. You can show or hide parts in wm2d so what I've done is to hide all the parts except for the masses then run the simulation. It's interesting to see the interaction of the masses without seeing how they're connected. Patterns form as they move strongly in a direction or slip back to the bottom.

Finally one of my concerns was using this software on a machine that was hooked up to the internet. I know that people can hack your machine and take a good look at what you're thinking. I'm not quick to share the ideas that I think might cause perpetu*woo*motion. I shared one idea in this thread and if you're curious as Lizzy you might review the thread and see what it was. It isn't an original idea. Scientists in the last century used it to solve a problem.

If your thinking is constrained by the ideas of others you won't get too much further than they did. No great thing was ever accomplished by a reasonable person and perpetu*woo*motion is no small thing unless of course you consider the electron. Who knows, if they can do it maybe I can emulate it.

Gene
 
  • Just do it.

Sure Nike. I'm like most people in that regard. I decide what to do and when to do it. As you well know Rome wasn't built in a day.

A. Gene Young

edit: I'd like to add that what you might be referring to as 'back and forth' is actually a straight line from my perspective.
 
AgingYoung said:
  • Just do it.

Sure Nike. I'm like most people in that regard. I decide what to do and when to do it. As you well know Rome wasn't built in a day.

A. Gene Young

edit: I'd like to add that what you might be referring to as 'back and forth' is actually a straight line from my perspective.
Click to expand...

All talk, no build.
Thermodynamics win. Flawless victory.
 
ChaosEngineer said:
I've been trying to figure out the best way to do this. I'm thinking it might be easier to go for unlimited energy rather than true perputual motion.

I'd go back in time a thousand years or so, travel to the Middle East, drive off any cavemen living in the area, build some oil wells, and ship the oil back to the present day for use as fuel.

When I'd mined all the available oil, I'd travel back in time another thousand years and etc.
Click to expand...

The Middle East 1000 years ago would be a tad light on cavemen - lots of Muslim herders, traders, cities though. I think you may mean 4 + thousand years or so.
 
  • All talk, no build.

It seems you're having a hard time following the conversation.

I've made some models that oscillate yet eventually manage to throw some of it's mass over the center to manage a rotation.
Click to expand...
You might have missed that. I have also built a self sustaining pendulum but there's a large difference between a simulation and a real model. The pendulum modeled the gravity actuated acceleration principle. I'm of the opinion that MV² is a crucial factor.

Several of the larger models I've made (see quote) are at times very unstable. I think if they ran forever they would never settle. There is a principle behind them. What I need to accomplish is the control of the model. I'm persuaded it can be purely a mechanical control system. wm2d doesn't have the means for an electro-mechanical system but that might simplify things.

There are two other ideas that I need to model to see what their merit is. One of those ideas is simple on the surface yet incredibly complex. Unless you've taken an idea to a prototype you couldn't begin to appreciate the work necessary. Also I move kind of slow with ideas. One reason is I like to think about them just for the enjoyment of it. Another is I like to know where I'm at with an idea so that when I make changes I have some idea where I'll end up.

I'm a little intuitive yet some things are kind of blatant. First you mention
  • Just do it.
then....
  • All talk, no build.
It seems you're trying to manage me. I have to let you know right up front I'm unmanageable. You'll be as much a failure in trying to manage me as you probably think I'll be in finding perpetu*woo*motion.

Gene

edit: Well breaks over for me ....back to the lab!
 
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AgingYoung said:
  • All talk, no build.

It seems you're having a hard time following the conversation.


You might have missed that. I have also built a self sustaining pendulum but there's a large difference between a simulation and a real model. The pendulum modeled the gravity actuated acceleration principle. I'm of the opinion that MV² is a crucial factor.

Several of the larger models I've made (see quote) are at times very unstable. I think if they ran forever they would never settle. There is a principle behind them. What I need to accomplish is the control of the model. I'm persuaded it can be purely a mechanical control system. wm2d doesn't have the means for an electro-mechanical system but that might simplify things.

There are two other ideas that I need to model to see what their merit is. One of those ideas is simple on the surface yet incredibly complex. Unless you've taken an idea to a prototype you couldn't begin to appreciate the work necessary. Also I move kind of slow with ideas. One reason is I like to think about them just for the enjoyment of it. Another is I like to know where I'm at with an idea so that when I make changes I have some idea where I'll end up.

I'm a little intuitive yet some things are kind of blatant. First you mention
  • Just do it.
then....
  • All talk, no build.
It seems you're trying to manage me. I have to let you know right up front I'm unmanageable. You'll be as much a failure in trying to manage me as you probably think I'll be in finding perpetu*woo*motion.

Gene

edit: Well breaks over for me ....back to the lab!
Click to expand...

I have no interest in man-aging you.

I have an interest in a never-ending non-polluting energy source.

Show me by building a working perpetuum mobile.
 
ic, you're not trying to manage me. Could be you're just naturally bossy. You follow that copy of the entire post I just posted (talk about visual pollution) with ...
  • Show me by building a working perpetuum mobile.
Some are so cute when they try to act serious. You'd be in that crowd.

I do have a question. You seem kind of knowledgeable about physics particularly thermodynamics...
  • Thermodynamics win. Flawless victory.

My question is about entropy. For review...
  • Since entropy gives information about the evolution of an isolated system with time, it is said to give us the direction of "time's arrow" . If snapshots of a system at two different times shows one state which is more disordered, then it could be implied that this state came later in time. For an isolated system, the natural course of events takes the system to a more disordered (higher entropy) state.

How do you reconcile the propagation of rf or electron flow or light with the idea of entropy?

Gene
 
Gene, you keep talking. You do not provide evidence.

I have no interest in talk.

I have interest in evidence.
 
If you weren't interested in talking you wouldn't keep responding. I'm typing this as I think about the model I'm working on. This thread has quite a few views and you never know who is reading. That question on entropy is an open one. I honestly don't know. I have heard of experiments that point to the idea that light is slowing down. Classical physicists reject the idea but it's based on the reproduction of light measuring experiments that have been used over time. It appears that within statistical error the results today aren't what they once were. My theory is that since the universe is expanding that the goal posts are moving. The speed of light is constant yet the ruler we use today is different. The standard is changing.

I'm sure you have interest in the evidence as a lot of folks do. It's quite a line, GzuzKryzt, and you'll have to get behind Mr. Randi. As I mentioned earlier most people do what they have a mind to do. Some let others think for them. My momma used to think for me but that ended quite a while ago. I'm married now and at times my wife tries to be my momma but she isn't too successful at it. I'm very unmanageable. I would provide you some evidence (if I ever manage to get some) before Mr. Randi but you'd have to pony up 2 million.

Gene
 
Gene, you keep talking. You do not provide evidence.

I have no interest in talk.

I have interest in evidence.
 
GzuzKryzt,

I'm still thinking about the details of this last model. Just like you I'll post what I want to. Unlike you I won't be redundant.

  • I have interest in evidence.
When you begin making my mortgage I'll take more of an interest in what interests you, maybe.

Gene
 
AgingYoung said:
...
When you begin making my mortgage I'll take more of an interest in what interests you, maybe.
...
Click to expand...

A perpetuum mobile will benefit the entire population of this planet, ideally.

Gene, if you prefer to keep posting here instead of putting your knowledge to good use, you may do as you see fit. In fact, I feel quite you will. But your behaviour feeds my assumption that you have nothing more to offer than dead air.

However, I would adore being proven wrong by you and will gladly admit so the day it happens. I sincerely wish you the best success in your endeavour to conquer what has yet been unconquered.

Until you have built a working perpetuum mobile: Good day Sir, and good luck.
 
  • Gene, if you prefer to keep posting here instead of putting your knowledge to good use, you may do as you see fit.

Thank you momma.

Gene
 
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