Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

http://www.911pentagon.org/

Absence of a plethora of videos not released.
April Gallup only witness I know of at the impact area.
Precise location of impact intended/caused absolute minimum collateral damage to military personnel.
Missing expected wing and tail marks in the wall.
E Ring hole was too small, C Ring hole was too big.
...........
 
Clayton Moore said:
http://www.911pentagon.org/

Absence of a plethora of videos not released.
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Can you point to any one video that ought to have been released but wasn't? Identify by camera position and camera direction. Cam must have been pointed towards impact site or caught any part of fligt path.

Clayton Moore said:
April Gallup only witness I know of at the impact area.
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1. You know of. Who cares what you do and don't know? How does your lack of knowledge alter reality?
2. That's the same April Gallup that won a court case claiming that an American Airlines 757 crashed into her workplace, right?
3. Witnesses at the impact area are generally dead. Duh.

Clayton Moore said:
Precise location of impact intended/caused absolute minimum collateral damage to military personnel.
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You know this how?

Clayton Moore said:
Missing expected wing and tail marks in the wall.
E Ring hole was too small, C Ring hole was too big.
...........
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Where is your engineering study that simulates the crash and caughs up these claims?
Or is there any other way to determine what we shoud expect to see? What method did you use?



Do you realize that 911pentagon.org agrees with the fact that AA77 with all its passengers crashed into the Pentagon?
 
sheeplesnshills said:
I've found that too. It seems their mental illness allows them to formulate a belief that something is a conspiracy but not allow them to actually specify what that conspiracy was. Its more just a "feeling" not an intellectually thought out conclusion. So everything presented as evidence that it wasn't still "feels" wrong and everything, no matter how silly, that confirms their suspicions "feels" right. This bias can even extend to them creating faked evidence because again, they "feel" or "know" that its right even though they, themselves, faked it.:boggled:
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Really, it saves time to just type "truthiness".

Clayton Moore said:
When I was a little boy my mom used to tell me and the babysitter that she would be back before I could say Jack Robinson. Now I'm the babysitter and the government is telling us that they found matching DNA.
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Given your usual debating technique, I'd have thought you were still the baby.
 
Clayton Moore said:
http://www.911pentagon.org/

Absence of a plethora of videos not released.
April Gallup only witness I know of at the impact area.
Precise location of impact intended/caused absolute minimum collateral damage to military personnel.
Missing expected wing and tail marks in the wall.
E Ring hole was too small, C Ring hole was too big.
...........
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So you just simply believe these things that this website says no questions asked? I mean, of course, do they stand up to scrutiny? Or, because they support your position, you don't care?
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Seems to me that there has to be a common starting point for all mechanical instructions for a plane to insure that they are properly synchronized and that data/feedback is returned to a central processor.

That shoves the 1500 man hours down the poopshute.
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I have located the source of your problem. The common starting point is the pilot.
 
beachnut said:
Only for people with delusions. You would have to be dumber than dirt to believe that theory. How did you find such an idiotic web site? How did you find someone so deranged and mentally ill as the guy who did that web site? He is insane and a moron. How did you find him? BLAH BLAH
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Come on Beachnut. You can do better than just uttering a bunch of ad hominems. The same utterances can be made about Trusters and the OCT. How about some substance? You are a pilot and know about Cabin Air Pressure Outflow Valves (CAPOV) and Flight Management Systems (FMS). Let's hear your analysis of why these could not be adapted to be Remote Controlled. It is a simple explanation: CAPOV lets air out, disabling the occupants. FMS flies the plane into buildings. Witnesses see a plane, plane parts are found, and DNA confirms the people on board. FDRs conveniently "lost" of "have no useful data". Let's hear a good technical response.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
When I was a little boy my mom used to tell me and the babysitter that she would be back before I could say Jack Robinson. Now I'm the babysitter and the government is telling us that they found matching DNA.
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In other words, a troofer once again has nothing to say but that doesn't stop him from posting
 
TruthMakesPeace said:
Come on Beachnut. You can do better than just uttering a bunch of ad hominems. The same utterances can be made about Trusters and the OCT. How about some substance? You are a pilot and know about Cabin Air Pressure Outflow Valves (CAPOV) and Flight Management Systems (FMS). Let's hear your analysis of why these could not be adapted to be Remote Controlled. It is a simple explanation: CAPOV lets air out, disabling the occupants. FMS flies the plane into buildings. Witnesses see a plane, plane parts are found, and DNA confirms the people on board. FDRs conveniently "lost" of "have no useful data". Let's hear a good technical response.
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Technical analysis of why it would be practically impossible to modify the jets as you claim has already been provided to you.

Yet you keep on trying to fit that very square peg in a very round hole.

Try again.
wouldn't it have been easier to find 4 people willing to fly jets into buildings?

So now we have the SEC, FBI, NTSB, the ground crews and the airlines in on it... amazing... it just keeps on growing and growing.... (unlike the truth movement)
 
TruthMakesPeace said:
They would be so consumed in getting air and warmth, they could not try to find and close the CAPOVs nor deactivate the RC of the FMS
s, and blend in like normal workers...

The Oxygen masks may well have been triggered by the lowering of cabin pressure. But they are useless against freezing. The theory still works if the occupants were still alive and huddled in blankets as the Remote Controlled planes hit the buildings.
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So the experienced pilots, trained in procedures for loss of cabin pressure just huddled under blankets instead of diving to a lower altitude?
 
TruthMakesPeace said:
Come on Beachnut. You can do better than just uttering a bunch of ad hominems. The same utterances can be made about Trusters and the OCT. How about some substance? You are a pilot and know about Cabin Air Pressure Outflow Valves (CAPOV) and Flight Management Systems (FMS). Let's hear your analysis of why these could not be adapted to be Remote Controlled. It is a simple explanation: CAPOV lets air out, disabling the occupants. FMS flies the plane into buildings. Witnesses see a plane, plane parts are found, and DNA confirms the people on board. FDRs conveniently "lost" of "have no useful data". Let's hear a good technical response.
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Brian Sweeney was killed shortly after he called his parents from Flight 175 at 9:00 AM.
 
TruthMakesPeace said:
I agree the Fly Over is only a partial theory. There are at least 5 points of evidence that a complete theory should cover:
1. Aircraft - what was it that resulted in the damage at the Pentagon
2. People - what happened to the passengers? How to explain DNA?
3. Building damage - Why smaller than expected E Ring hole, and large C Ring hole?
4. External damage - How did plane parts and light poles land on lawn?
5. Aircraft approach direction - North of Citgo or South? Steep or shallow angle?

If a theory can cover all 5 points, without merely discounting evidence as "staged", then it "fits like a glove", and is worth considering. For example, CIT provides credible witnesses for a NoC on #5, but needs more explanation for #2, #3, and #4. For #4, CIT describes how lamp posts could have been staged, but not all the airline debris. The OCT provides credible evidence and explanation for #1, #2, #3, #4, but fails on #5, contradicting even Pentagon Police officers.
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The CiT contentions do not explain the damage pattern(ie. aircraft damage) within the Pentagon. that would be #1 above.
That leaves the item #5 as their sole support and it has been shown over and over that eyewitness statements are the least valid except in the case that multiple witnesses describe very much the same thing. All of the suppposed NoC witnesses have widely differing paths that take the plane NoC(and some of them are only NoC witnesses in the minds of the CiT, through stretching of the actual words spoken by the witnesses).

So we have the official history of what occured backed by all but some eyewitness statements. we have several witnesses all agreeing that the plane hit the Pentagon and NONE that say it flew over or even any that say they thought it hit an upper storey rather than , as the official hiastory has it, the first/ground floor.
Nails in the coffin for the CiT



The Remote Control of Cabin Air Pressure Outflow Valves and Flight Management System in Planes Containing Explosives and Duped Hijackers Hitting Buildings Containing Explosives (RCoCAPOV&FMSIPCE&DHHBCE) theory proposes that the hijackers were just hijackers - who intended to demand some benefit in return for the hostages - such as closing US military bases in their home country of Arabia. They were duped, decompressed, and died with the crew and passengers. Then the planes proceeded by Remote Control, to crash into the buildings, with computer controlled speed and accuracy - without human emotions, human error, or human survival instinct.
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As pointed out many times in this very thread, suicide bombers rarely, if ever, make demands prior to executing their destructive plans. At best they shout "Allah Akbar" as they detonate.
Human emotions, human error, and human survival instinct has not stood in the way of such attacks in the past and there is no reason to believe that it would be any more the case in this instance.

In this case the aircraft themselves were the 'bombs' but the motivation remains the same. The organization to which they belonged had long said they wanted the USA and the west out of the Holy Land. They had said that they considered themselves to be at war with the west/USA many times in the past.

Like what "myriad" of problems? This theory is supported by the most evidence and witness testimonies of any I've seen, including the OCT. The theory is supported by all the Radar tracks, phone calls before CAPOV release, airline debris, eye witness testimonies, DNA evidence, etc. Here is a comparison: www.911Pentagon.org
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It is unsupported by any evidence at all to back it up for one thing. You cannot produce any item that makes this more believeable than having the hijackers actually fly the plane to target.
You have also continuously adjusted/changed your contentions as problems with it have been brought up. You started with this occuring at 10,000 feet then 30,000 and now its 35,000.
I asked you before how long these aircraft actually were above FL300, or now make that FL350? No answer.
It has been pointed out that people can take several minutes to pass out and that it also will take several minutes to reduce internal air pressure to levels at which people will be affected.
It has been pointed out that a person in a t-shirt can easily survive several minutes of -40 degrees and that it would take many minutes to reduce internal temp anyway(the air is going out, not in, the air still warm, the seats are still warm, there's just less air in the cabin).
It has been pointed out that any RC of the aircraft will require a great deal of telemetry in the reverse path as well as a high speed data channel in the forward path(or downstream/upstream if you prefer) and that both of these will have to have some type of interface with the actual flight data/flight controls. Also , since the controls are cables driving hydralics you will have to have a way to sever the cables in order to counter pilot attempts to control the aircraft. This means not only control surfaces but also engine controls.
You need a method by which you disable the oxygen masks not only in the cabin but the ones in the cockpit as well.
You need away to disable the radio communications and transponder systems in the aircraft.

ALL of which will have to be installed, prefereaby with out testing in place, without it being noticed either during install or afterwards, including after the plane actually crashes.

,,,,,and you propose this wildly complex theory despite the fact that the so called official story actually fits events without resorting to fantastic forays into unadulterated speculation. Why? Why do you feel the need, drive, desire to come up with a fantastical tale?

ETA: AMJ also points out (a few times now) that at least one passenger made a call when the plane was at LOW alititude just prior to impact.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
What part of
absolute minimum collateral damage to military personnel.

did you not understand?
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Nah! that would have entailed the aircraft plowing into the ground short of the Pentagon, say out at the highway where Lloyd England was.
It would still be an attack on the Penatgon. It would still take American lives and possibly one or two in the building.(Boger would have been in more danger)

,,, and your contention STILL assumes that the place of impact was the location that was planned for despite you simply not being able to show any evidence that it was. Its STILL a Texas Sharpshooter arguement/logical fallacy.
 
TruthMakesPeace said:
. It is a simple explanation: CAPOV lets air out, disabling the occupants. FMS flies the plane into buildings. ...............................
........... FDRs conveniently "lost" of "have no useful data". Let's hear a good technical response.
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1)No, yours is not a 'simple' theory. Your description of it above is a simplistic rendering of what would take place prior to and during execution of such a plan.

2)The FDRs of two of the four planes were found and read.
 
TruthMakesPeace said:
Yes, Captain. I dropped the "blown out windows" hypothesis like a hot Vulcan potato, thanks to JREFers like you. Explosives could have been detected. They might blow too much. Blown windows could cause navigation problems. So I kept looking, and found a better answer. There already is a hole for air to escape - the Cabin Air Pressure Outflow Valves (CAPOV). If they were forced open by a remote control device at high altitude, the air would rush out, suffocating and freezing the occupants. Then Remote Control of the FMS could steer the panes into the buildings - at computer controlled speed, accuracy, and without human emotions. I'm not saying this did happen, just that it is one explanation of how it could have been done. That's why we need a real, logical investigation of 9/11.
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Find a new hobby.
 
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