Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

[Grizzly Bear]

Cameras catch "photo finishes" in races, that the human eye cannot. That is why they are often used in the Olympics and other sports events.

Cameras used for races vs cameras used for typical surveillance purposes are two completely different animals. A typical video camera takes film at around 32 frames per second, approximately what the eye can discern as normal motion, the security camera was snapping shots at about 1 frame per second trying to capture a moving target traveling at around 800 feet per second (imperial units). It's a miracle that any part of the plane was captured by the cameras there.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Will someone please explain to our truthers here the concepts of frame rate and shutter speed? Just because there are cameras in existence that can freeze fast motion and work at high frame rates doesn't mean that all cameras are set up to do this!

ETA: Ah. Grizzly Bear did it already.

 

[ladmo]

What did I say again? About 30 posts... well the twoofer shows up at 45. Amazing.

The fdrs were not designed to withstand the COMBINATION of striking steel columns at 500 mph, then burning in an inferno for an hour, having hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on them/in them, falling 1000 feet, and then sitting in a debris pile with raging fires for 99 days.

You are an absolute piece of work. I guess nobody can ever challenge stupid statements. Stupid statements diminish the argument. Why don't you followup on Smith's comment of 110 floors landing on the aircraft? 110 floors did not fall on the plane unless the plane shot down to the lobby before the collapse. Because you do not even question the most obvious of stupid statements just shows your lack of reasoning. Even your comment of "having hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on them"... is over the top. The plane crashed into floor 93 which means that 17 floors were above the aircraft. How does 17 floors equate into over 400,000,000 lbs? btw, the 400,000,000 is giving you the benefit of the doubt when multiplying your string of numbers. Don't ever call me a Truther unless you just want to lie.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

[qimg]http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n94/elmondohummus/doh-1.gif[/qimg]

Will someone please explain to our truthers here the concepts of frame rate and shutter speed? Just because there are cameras in existence that can freeze fast motion and work at high frame rates doesn't mean that all cameras are set up to do this!

ETA: Ah. Grizzly Bear did it already.

The thing that drive me the bat ****'iest crazy about this conspiracy. They take the uppermost bound capabilities of devices and designs, then assume every single variation is the same without exception. They don it with buildings so I guess cameras were going to come up at some point

 

[TruthersLie]

You are an absolute piece of work. I guess nobody can ever challenge stupid statements. Stupid statements diminish the argument. Why don't you followup on Smith's comment of 110 floors landing on the aircraft? 110 floors did not fall on the plane unless the plane shot down to the lobby before the collapse. Because you do not even question the most obvious of stupid statements just shows your lack of reasoning. Even your comment of "having hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on them"... is over the top. The plane crashed into floor 93 which means that 17 floors were above the aircraft. How does 17 floors equate into over 400,000,000 lbs? btw, the 400,000,000 is giving you the benefit of the doubt when multiplying your string of numbers. Don't ever call me a Truther unless you just want to lie.

Bolded, italicized and underlined because I have NO FREAKING IDEA WHAT JIBBERISH you are talking about. SMith who? Which post #, WTF?

ETA: Ah I see... Looking above. Top of the page. You replied to Tri. Stating that a jet collided at 37K feet and the FDR was recovered. I pointed out that the COMBINATON of events is what TRI was talking about.

Smith points out that there were 110 concrete floorpans which collapsed with the building from 1000 in the air. now that makes sense. Please put in post #s when you are not directly quoting someone.

Tri is right which is what I was pointing out to you.

As for the rest
Really?
Are you not publicly making rather "trutherish" statements concerning the FDR's at ground zero?

Weren't you making statements about how they should have survived? Did I misread what you wrote? No I didn't.

as for hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on to them," well champ did both towers collapse at the SAME time? No they didn't. So if the blackboxes/fdrs were inside of the towers when they collapsed, the first tower to collapse then had the SECOND tower collapse on it. Doh.

If they flew through the towers like the engines did, with less mass they wouldn't have gone far... and would have had the towers collapse onto them. Gee... I wonder what happened then... could "hundreds of thousands of tons have collapsed" on them? Dur...

Of course that is also ignoring the truther myth that you are trying to pass off of the "indestructible" black boxes... which were never made for, nor intended to survive what happened on 9/11. Hitting something at 500 mph... ok. They should survive that. Burning in a 1000C fire for an hour. They should survive that. falling 1000 feet. They should survive that. Having (just to make you happy) tens of tons of debris collapsing on to them... I doubt they would survive that, but maybe. Sitting in a hot, humid, caustic environment for 99 days with fires in the piles... I doubt they would survive that. Which is what I SAID in the post you replied to.

Tri's statement wasn't "stupid" and neither was A.W. Smiths.

And we have FDR's that haven't survived fires of crashes. Braniff 250 air crash...
http://www.pilotfriend.com/disasters/crash/braniff250.htm

The FDR was destroyed in the fire, but the CVR was still readable.

I'll stop calling you a truther, when you stop acting like a twoof JAQ'ing off.
Have I made myself clear enough yet?

 

[Sabretooth]

You are an absolute piece of work. I guess nobody can ever challenge stupid statements. Stupid statements diminish the argument. Why don't you followup on Smith's comment of 110 floors landing on the aircraft? 110 floors did not fall on the plane unless the plane shot down to the lobby before the collapse. Because you do not even question the most obvious of stupid statements just shows your lack of reasoning. Even your comment of "having hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on them"... is over the top. The plane crashed into floor 93 which means that 17 floors were above the aircraft. How does 17 floors equate into over 400,000,000 lbs? btw, the 400,000,000 is giving you the benefit of the doubt when multiplying your string of numbers. Don't ever call me a Truther unless you just want to lie.

Why did you only take exception the amount of debris? I'm not getting you. You say you're not a truther, but your sure as hell acting like one.

Listen, imagine for a moment the scope of the big picture. The FDR is not that much bigger than a couple shoe boxes stacked on one another. Consider the comparison of that box to a 767. Now compare the 767 to a WTC tower. You see where I'm going with this?

What you essentially have is the equivalent of finding a needle in a pile of other needles and concrete the size of a football stadium. This, of course, after letting it burn for 99 days.

The chances of finding those boxes after the absolute chaos of that day was bascially nil. It's no surprise they were never found.

 

[A W Smith]

You are an absolute piece of work. I guess nobody can ever challenge stupid statements. Stupid statements diminish the argument. Why don't you followup on Smith's comment of 110 floors landing on the aircraft? 110 floors did not fall on the plane unless the plane shot down to the lobby before the collapse. Because you do not even question the most obvious of stupid statements just shows your lack of reasoning. Even your comment of "having hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on them"... is over the top. The plane crashed into floor 93 which means that 17 floors were above the aircraft. How does 17 floors equate into over 400,000,000 lbs? btw, the 400,000,000 is giving you the benefit of the doubt when multiplying your string of numbers. Don't ever call me a Truther unless you just want to lie.

WHAT? are you an idiot? Are you claiming all the lower floors were not impacted by the debris above? Or that all the upper floors missed the lower floors ? Or both? There were two 110 story building there. Where are they today? Or tell me which floors were exempt from the collapse? Crush up crush down? ever heard of it?

 

[Sabretooth]

WHAT? are you an idiot? Are you claiming all the lower floors were not impacted by the debris above? Or that all the upper floors missed the lower floors ? Or both? There were two 110 story building there. Where are they today? Or tell me which floors were exempt from the collapse? Crush up crush down? ever heard of it?

Also...

This is a photo of what remained of the FDR found at the Pentagon...

...and that impact and subsequent fire/collapse was not nearly as severe as the WTC.

 

[ladmo]

Bolded, italicized and underlined because I have NO FREAKING IDEA WHAT JIBBERISH you are talking about. SMith who? Which post #, WTF?

ETA: Ah I see... Looking above. Top of the page. You replied to Tri. Stating that a jet collided at 37K feet and the FDR was recovered. I pointed out that the COMBINATON of events is what TRI was talking about.

Smith points out that there were 110 concrete floorpans which collapsed with the building from 1000 in the air. now that makes sense. Please put in post #s when you are not directly quoting someone.

Tri is right which is what I was pointing out to you.

As for the rest
Really?
Are you not publicly making rather "trutherish" statements concerning the FDR's at ground zero?

Weren't you making statements about how they should have survived? Did I misread what you wrote? No I didn't.

as for hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on to them," well champ did both towers collapse at the SAME time? No they didn't. So if the blackboxes/fdrs were inside of the towers when they collapsed, the first tower to collapse then had the SECOND tower collapse on it. Doh.

If they flew through the towers like the engines did, with less mass they wouldn't have gone far... and would have had the towers collapse onto them. Gee... I wonder what happened then... could "hundreds of thousands of tons have collapsed" on them? Dur...

Of course that is also ignoring the truther myth that you are trying to pass off of the "indestructible" black boxes... which were never made for, nor intended to survive what happened on 9/11. Hitting something at 500 mph... ok. They should survive that. Burning in a 1000C fire for an hour. They should survive that. falling 1000 feet. They should survive that. Having (just to make you happy) tens of tons of debris collapsing on to them... I doubt they would survive that, but maybe. Sitting in a hot, humid, caustic environment for 99 days with fires in the piles... I doubt they would survive that. Which is what I SAID in the post you replied to.

Tri's statement wasn't "stupid" and neither was A.W. Smiths.

And we have FDR's that haven't survived fires of crashes. Braniff 250 air crash...
http://www.pilotfriend.com/disasters/crash/braniff250.htm



I'll stop calling you a truther, when you stop acting like a twoof JAQ'ing off.
Have I made myself clear enough yet?

Look I am attempting to understand this stuff and your accusations don't help. If you are going to restate something that someone else said... you better get it right. You said in post #385

"Smith points out that there were 110 concrete floorpans which collapsed with the building from 1000 in the air. now that makes sense. Please put in post #s when you are not directly quoting someone."

What Smith really said in post #368 was... "after they collided did 110 concrete slabs fall on them from a quarter mile high up?"

The words "on them" are what is in question. That is completely different than what you say as you are trying to rebuff me. Why I am a target is beyond me but apparently I am in your sites and you will not stop. If a Truther made your same comments you would be all over that person... but for you it is "OK" since you make the rules. You and Smith cannot stay on task... my entire point was that the amount of concrete falling on the jetliner is not even close to what you guys are suggesting but in your world... fantasy is reality.

 

[ladmo]

WHAT? are you an idiot? Are you claiming all the lower floors were not impacted by the debris above? Or that all the upper floors missed the lower floors ? Or both? There were two 110 story building there. Where are they today? Or tell me which floors were exempt from the collapse? Crush up crush down? ever heard of it?

I never said that...

You stated that 100 floors of concrete fell on the FDR. I am telling you that 110 floors did not fall on the FDR... the only way that could happen would be for the FDR to rush down to the lobby before the collapse.

You need to provide some supporting documentation that an FDR is not made to withstand this impact instead of just making a claim.

 

[ladmo]

Also...

This is a photo of what remained of the FDR found at the Pentagon...

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Flight_77_CVR.jpg[/qimg]

...and that impact and subsequent fire/collapse was not nearly as severe as the WTC.

That is really strange because the FDR from the Pentagon was recovered and the data retrieved supported the official report. This picture shows a device that is completely destroyed. Are you correct or was the FDR destroyed at the Pentagon? Please clarify.

 

[triforcharity]

I never said that...

You stated that 100 floors of concrete fell on the FDR. I am telling you that 110 floors did not fall on the FDR... the only way that could happen would be for the FDR to rush down to the lobby before the collapse.

You need to provide some supporting documentation that an FDR is not made to withstand this impact instead of just making a claim.

How about this?
http://www.l-3ar.com/html/history.html

Fire Protection and Impact

Through the years, Fairchild recorders have survived the most horrible accidents. To ensure their survivability, a series of tests needs to be accomplished, and the test must be done in sequence.

Crash Impact Test -- It has been agreed that 3400gs for 6.5 ms would be required to meet most accident scenarios. This test is actually performed with a cannon. A Fairchild CVR has survived a crash that was estimated to be more than 6000 gs.

Static Crush -- In this test, 5,000-pound pressure is applied against all six axis points.

Pierce Test -- A pierce test employs a 500-lb. weight dropped from 10 feet. It has been modified to be performed with a hardened steel pin.

Fire Test -- The devices are subjected to 1100 degrees Centigrade for 60 minutes, then undergo 10 hours at 260 degrees Centigrade. Because of its outstanding fire survival record, the Fairchild Model A100CVR was used as the model to insure mandated standards could be obtained. The very latest FAA standards require the fire test to be expanded to 1 hour at 1100 degrees Centigrade. which all solid state models of L-3 Recorders meet or exceed.

1100 deg. C is 2012 deg. F. FOR ONE HOUR!!

Even 5 days at 1400 deg. F. would cause these things to fail.

Now, how about you pipe down with your nonsense, and stop running off at the mouth like you know what the **** you're talking about, Mmmm-Kay?

 

[triforcharity]

That is really strange because the FDR from the Pentagon was recovered and the data retrieved supported the official report. This picture shows a device that is completely destroyed. Are you correct or was the FDR destroyed at the Pentagon? Please clarify.

That's the outer shell.

 

[ladmo]

How about this?
http://www.l-3ar.com/html/history.html


1100 deg. C is 2012 deg. F. FOR ONE HOUR!!

Even 5 days at 1400 deg. F. would cause these things to fail.

Now, how about you pipe down with your nonsense, and stop running off at the mouth like you know what the **** you're talking about, Mmmm-Kay?

I was actually appreciative of the link and read it. Your final comment is just plain childish.

You still make an assumption that 5 days at 1400 F would cause these things to fail. I would agree with you but how do we know it would fail?

 

[ladmo]

That's the outer shell.

But that is not what Sabretooth posted... he wrote: "This is a photo of what remained of the FDR found at the Pentagon..."

 

[beachnut]

I never said that...

You stated that 100 floors of concrete fell on the FDR. I am telling you that 110 floors did not fall on the FDR... the only way that could happen would be for the FDR to rush down to the lobby before the collapse.

You need to provide some supporting documentation that an FDR is not made to withstand this impact instead of just making a claim.

The FDR could have fallen down an elevator shaft, to the basement, thus crushed by over 110 floors, who cares.

The FDR is not designed to impact a steel building and then be subjected to office fires and a gravity collapse equal to 130 TONS of TNT in kinetic energy. I could look up the exact for you, but I already looked it up several times to see 911 truth can't figure out how to figure out an FDR is not designed to be crushed by a building as big as the WTC, or the Pentagon. Are you saying a FDR is design to survive a building collapse like the WTC? You should look up the design required instead of making it up a fuzzy as you have.

But that is not what Sabretooth posted... he wrote: "This is a photo of what remained of the FDR found at the Pentagon..."

photo was the CVR, it is labeled. The FDR was damaged, and has smoke damage, but readable. the CVR, think it had no useful data. You could explain it was the CVR, you could do some research to help correct.

 

[ladmo]

The FDR could have fallen down an elevator shaft, to the basement, thus crushed by over 110 floors, who cares.

The FDR is not designed to impact a steel building and then be subjected to office fires and a gravity collapse equal to 130 TONS of TNT in kinetic energy. I could look up the exact for you, but I already looked it up several times to see 911 truth can't figure out how to figure out an FDR is not designed to be crushed by a building as big as the WTC, or the Pentagon. Are you saying a FDR is design to survive a building collapse like the WTC? You should look up the design required instead of making it up a fuzzy as you have.

photo was the CVR, it is labeled. The FDR was damaged, and has smoke damage, but readable. the CVR, think it had no useful data. You could explain it was the CVR, you could do some research to help correct.

I have no idea if the FDR is design to withstand any of this... I have never made a claim.

In everybody's haste to waylay a "Toofer" (which I am not) some assumptions were made but nobody called anybody out it due to some freaky degree of bonding between Posters.

If what you say about the FDR getting to the bottom of the building prior to collapse... then I can agree with the inability for the FDR to withstand the collapse but to sift through all of this due to some personalized red herring comments that had no foundation is downright foolish. I really thought a decorum would be followed instead of Irish Debate Rules.

anyway, thanks for your insight.

 

[beachnut]

I have no idea if the FDR is design to withstand any of this... I have never made a claim.

In everybody's haste to waylay a "Toofer" (which I am not) some assumptions were made but nobody called anybody out it due to some freaky degree of bonding between Posters.

If what you say about the FDR getting to the bottom of the building prior to collapse... then I can agree with the inability for the FDR to withstand the collapse but to sift through all of this due to some personalized red herring comments that had no foundation is downright foolish. I really thought a decorum would be followed instead of Irish Debate Rules.

anyway, thanks for your insight.

Remember seeing the 3 to 5 floors of the WTC fused together by the collapse? The FDR could be crushed in those floors. What is your goal, your need? The photo was a photo of the CVR at the Pentagon, it is labeled as such by name, and it did not do well, and the FDR in the Pentagon may of perished if the fire was not FOUGHT, they fought the fire at the Pentagon, and the building still collapsed.

How many floors of the WTC falling could a FDR survive? What is the question, and who ... ?

 

[triforcharity]

I was actually appreciative of the link and read it. Your final comment is just plain childish.

You still make an assumption that 5 days at 1400 F would cause these things to fail. I would agree with you but how do we know it would fail?

Because it is not rated for that type of exposure. It's not indestructable.

And no, not assumption, I have done the math.

 

[ladmo]

Because it is not rated for that type of exposure. It's not indestructable.

And no, not assumption, I have done the math.

I am glad that you did the math, that would have been good to know as it was not mentioned. Seeing your algorithm would be proof enough... thanks