Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

triforcharity said:
Even if ONE was not found, it proves that what you said is incorrect.

So is your expert. Sometimes that happens. Even experts are human.





There were no FDR/VCR recovered at GZ. They were never designed to stand up to the abuse that they would have undoubtedly endured.
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I think the FDR's are designed to withstand levels well beyond what occurred at the WTC. I am not sure how many years ago this happened but in Brazil a Boeing aircraft collided with another plane at 37K feet and the recorder was recovered.
 
cicorp said:
The fallacy is not just in the form. You left off the important next sentence:
This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject.
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When said authority is either incompetent, a liar, or just plain doesn't know his stuff he is considered illegitimate.

cicorp said:
General Stubblebine is certainly qualified to speak on his analysis of photos, his job for years.
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General Stubblebine may have had years on a job analyzing photographs but if his claims don't stand up to scrutiny he is not qualified to speak no matter how many years he has on his roster. Credibility is earned, not given.

I don't need to be told how long he's been in a profession, I don't need to know he's an analyst, his "facts" should be able to stand on their own, and they don't, not by a long shot
 
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Correction

ladmo said:
I think the FDR's are designed to withstand levels well beyond what occurred at the WTCPentagon. I am not sure how many years ago this happened but in Brazil a Boeing aircraft collided with another plane at 37K feet and the recorder was recovered.
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my mistake
 
You think and then you have a half remembered anecdote? You see the problem here.

How about finding out?

I am sure you can find the specification of an FDR if you try.
 
ladmo said:
ladmo said:
I think the FDR's are designed to withstand levels well beyond what occurred at the WTCPentagon. I am not sure how many years ago this happened but in Brazil a Boeing aircraft collided with another plane at 37K feet and the recorder was recovered.
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my mistake
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The FDR from American Airlines flight 77 was recovered inside the Pentagon, and its data are consistent with the known facts about that aircraft's movements leading up to and ending with its crash into the Pentagon.

The cockpit voice recorder was also found inside the Pentagon, but was so badly damaged that its recording could not be extracted.
 
Will McMoneagle take James Randi's $1m Challenge?

cicorp said:
According to his site, he has solved missing persons cases. (I have not researched his claims, just heard about him today, and have no opinion on him at this time.) www.McEagle.com
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I printed the James Randi Educational Foundation $1 million challenge and sent it to Joe McMoneagle at the address on his web site. He is not listed as an applicant yet.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=43&order=desc

If he is legit, he should apply, so James Randi can check him out.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html
 
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ladmo said:
I think the FDR's are designed to withstand levels well beyond what occurred at the WTC. I am not sure how many years ago this happened but in Brazil a Boeing aircraft collided with another plane at 37K feet and the recorder was recovered.
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after they collided did 110 concrete slabs fall on them from a quarter mile high up?
 
Flight 77 radar knowledge on 9/11 vs months later for the Commission

beachnut said:
The plane was never lost on RADAR...The entire flight path of 77 was recorded at RADAR sites. That graphic is the complete flight path of 77, from takeoff to impact.
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We need to distinguish:
1. What was known at the time on the morning of 9/11/2001, and immediately available to the busy Airt Traffic Controllers, versus

2. What was known months later, by piecing together various additional radar signals, in preparation for the 9/11 Commission Report.

You can verify this on www.911Myths.com - an anti-Truther site, on their page about "Losing Flight 77" in the section "Tracked or not tracked"
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Losing_Flight_77

The Commission were not saying that all the FAA radar systems were unable to fully track Flight 77, just the preferred and supplemental radars. Flight 77 could still have been tracked on the “tertiary” and “quadrary” radars, and so accessible for later analysis by the Commission, but these wouldn't have been visible to air traffic controllers at the time.​

Hindsight is 20/20. 911Myths confirms that even after Flight 77 came back on radar, the flight controllers were searching its path to the west before it turned. Today, everyone knows where Flight 77 was headed and its intentions. On 9/11/2001 they did not. So the flight path can be calculated and interpolated to cover any blank radar areas.

You unfairly imply that the Air Traffic Controllers had all the data for that graph available to them on September 11, 2001. For the Controllers, while trying to track hundreds of other flights, Flight 77 was lost on radar for a significant time.
 
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General Stubblebine was not a photo interpreter. He was a he was an armor officer who commanded several army intelligence organizations to include Army Intelligence and Security Command. Even if he was an intelligence officer that does not mean he was a photo interpreter.
 
cicorp said:
The list has 12, and includes the questionable 9/11 FDR losses. There is testimony by Mike Balone, that they really were found at the WTCs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqewYask17o

Even 12 is a small number out of the hundreds of airline crashes.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com

My statement still stands:
Dale Leppard, Air Crash Investigator for 48 years, said "never once" had he heard of a crash where the black boxes were not found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqewYask17o 3:45 minutes in

I found Dale Leppard on the web and emailed him this link. Still it is suspicious that on the same day so many black boxes were not found. Even more suspicious, or should be to critical thinkers, is that none of the data from the WTC FDRs have been made public.
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You state EVERYONE even ones at the BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN. I give you a list that shows you are wrong... and instead of saying "oops, I didn't check my sources" you continue to rant how your are correct.

Your source is WRONG, and your claim is WRONG. It took all of 15 seconds to find it.

Never once and here is a list of 12 ... wowsers...

As for your gish galloping full speed into other claims and bs, you need to stay on topic and finish them.
 
ladmo said:
I think the FDR's are designed to withstand levels well beyond what occurred at the WTC. I am not sure how many years ago this happened but in Brazil a Boeing aircraft collided with another plane at 37K feet and the recorder was recovered.
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What did I say again? About 30 posts... well the twoofer shows up at 45. Amazing.

The fdrs were not designed to withstand the COMBINATION of striking steel columns at 500 mph, then burning in an inferno for an hour, having hundreds of thousands of tons of debris collapsing on them/in them, falling 1000 feet, and then sitting in a debris pile with raging fires for 99 days.
 
cicorp said:
Remember we are talking about something that happened in a split second. Also, the first of the 5 frames we got from the Pentagon show the fireball. Why is there is no photo of a plane partially in the Pentagon?

Cameras catch "photo finishes" in races, that the human eye cannot. That is why they are often used in the Olympics and other sports events.
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I'm sure someone's already spoken of the massive differences between the two cameras so I'll just say

:jaw-dropp


You basically just said that we should be able to see as much of the universe with a $99.99 telescope from Brookstone as we should see with the Hubble Space Telescope.
 
cicorp said:
We need to distinguish:
1. What was known at the time on the morning of 9/11/2001, and immediately available to the busy Airt Traffic Controllers, versus

2. What was known months later, by piecing together various additional radar signals, in preparation for the 9/11 Commission Report.
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Good news! They already researched that...go and actually read the 911CR...

Sorry, it's not on youtube. ;)
 
cicorp said:
The list has 12, and includes the questionable 9/11 FDR losses. There is testimony by Mike Balone, that they really were found at the WTCs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqewYask17o

Even 12 is a small number out of the hundreds of airline crashes.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com

My statement still stands:
Dale Leppard, Air Crash Investigator for 48 years, said "never once" had he heard of a crash where the black boxes were not found.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqewYask17o 3:45 minutes in

I found Dale Leppard on the web and emailed him this link. Still it is suspicious that on the same day so many black boxes were not found. Even more suspicious, or should be to critical thinkers, is that none of the data from the WTC FDRs have been made public.
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You posted a lie. Retract it. How can they make blackbox data from the WTC planes public if it doesnt exist?

You're not even hiding it now.
 
cicorp said:
Remember we are talking about something that happened in a split second. Also, the first of the 5 frames we got from the Pentagon show the fireball. Why is there is no photo of a plane partially in the Pentagon?

Cameras catch "photo finishes" in races, that the human eye cannot. That is why they are often used in the Olympics and other sports events.
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How about you watch the video and try and figure out what the time is between each frame on the security camera. That should answer your ridiculous question.
 
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