Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

Please specify "long, long time". Minutes? hours?

He watched over his shoulder as the aircraft HIT the Pentagon. Prior to that he was watching the aircraft approach the Pentagon.
Good enough?



It all depends on how careful the painters were to make an unmanned, remote controlled 757, packed with explosives, painted to look like an official American Airlines 757. If there were dummies in the cockpit, they would be hard to see anyway from the distance the C130 was.

OOOOOHHHHH, I see, now its a 757 but not AA77.
Next you will be telling us that the DFDR data is correct but that the DFDR was on this 'dummy' a/c, not AA77
BTW no one ever said that the C130 was looking into the cockpit. The C-130 was not down at the level that the 757 was, for obvious reasons.

If the explosions went off in the final second, or fraction of a second, before impact, that would be hard for the human eye to detect, from any distance. The explosions would blow off the wings, engines, tail, and turn a big plane in to small bits.

WOW, that's a lot of explosives! In the 1960s the PLO hijacked several aircraft at the same time and flew them to a desert strip, released the hostages and blew the planes up. Still great big plane parts left and they had all the time in the world to load as much as they wanted into them.

I would still need an answer as to how the senario you outline manges to take out 100 feet of the first floor wall while only taking out a small portion of the second floor wall, AND manages to move the gen-set closer to rather than away from the Pentagon.

That explains the small hole and why Army Major General Albert Stubblebine said "the plane does not fit in that hole!"

You and Stubblebine consider 100 feet of missing ground floor wall to be a 'small hole"?
 
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Make it official, we will accept his opinion when he collects on the Randi prize for passing through a solid wall.

What condition does he have to be in after passing thru the wall?
 
Dr. Dewdney has recently became aware of a new theory which explains the small hole and "wingless" plane that hit the Pentagon. Pre-planted explosives in the Flight 77 compartment, or a drone substituted during the radar blackout, blew up the wings, tail, and engines just prior to hitting the Pentagon.
(Please respond in the cicorp - pentagon thread, as this is not about Charlie Sheen.)

That's two 'theories'.

Evidence?
 
No No no.

stubblebine would have used his light saber and jedi mind tricks to cook the goat to the perfect condition.
 
New Exploding Plane theory answers many questions

Not true. Many of us are just here to observe some of the more bizarre outliers on the psychological continuum that we classify as "normal".
Well, I wish us both luck, observing the "bizarre" theories of each other. :)

for example, the fact that neither AA77 nor its passengers have turned up since, except as DNA samples
The theory of a plane with explosives in the baggage compartment, remote controlled, exploding just prior to hitting the wall, with passengers and crew knocked out, perhaps with chloroform gas, would explain their sadly becoming DNA samples.

and airliner debris,
The plane explosion scattered airliner debris all over the lawn, in a wide pattern, even on to Route 395. This corroborates the theory. If the plane exploded inside the Pentagon, debris would tend to shoot out mainly in the direction of the hole.

The first of the only 5 photo frames released (if we can believe a photo that has "Sep. 12" instead of Sep. 11) shows a huge flame going upwards and outwards in all directions. If the plane exploded inside the Pentagon, we would expect to see a flame shooting mostly out the hole.

or the excellent agreement between modelling of the effects of an airliner hitting the Pentagon and the actual damage observed,
We observe a curiously small hole, with no distinct wing, engine, or tail marks. We don't see big sections, as with other crashes. This is hardly excellent agreement. The exploding plane theory explains these anomalies perfectly. Explosives can make a big plane into a small, wingless, tail-less, engine-less plane.

or the absence of any evidence whatsoever infavour of a drone plane packed with explosives.
The physical evidence, and many credible eye witness testimonies, point to a plane hitting the Pentagon wall. However, it was going so fast the human eye could not detect that it exploded a fraction of a second before hitting.

Explosives would also explain the problems with the Flight Data Recorder (FDR).

drone plane
The OCT has an obvious problem. All people have an instinctive desire to live, even "devout" Muslims like Hani Hanjur and lap dance aficionado Muhammed Atta. How could Osama be sure they would not steer the plane away from their assigned buildings at the last moment? Or miss the building by human error?

But a remote controlled drone aircraft has deadly accuracy, and no fear of death. Who has access to drones, and could program them?

I'm not saying this theory is the way it happened. Just that it could have happened this way, and we need to investigate it. Detectives do this every day, establishing motive and opportunity.
 
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Well, I wish us both luck, observing the "bizarre" theories of each other. :)


The theory of a plane with explosives in the baggage compartment, remote controlled, exploding just prior to hitting the wall, with passengers and crew knocked out, perhaps with chloroform gas, would explain their sadly becoming DNA samples.
Why go to all of that trouble? Just crashing the plane into the pentagon would be enough.

The plane explosion scattered airliner debris all over the lawn, in a wide pattern, even on to Route 395. This corroborates the theory. If the plane exploded inside the Pentagon, debris would tend to shoot out mainly in the direction of the hole.
An explosions moves faster than the plane. The kinetic energy of all that mass was more than enough to breech the wall, & the plane was likely half in, half out when it exploded.

The first of the only 5 photo frames released (if we can believe a photo that has "Sep. 12" instead of Sep. 11) shows a huge flame going upwards and outwards in all directions. If the plane exploded inside the Pentagon, we would expect to see a flame shooting mostly out the hole.
Half in, half out would explain that too.


We observe a curiously small hole, with no distinct wing, engine, or tail marks. We don't see big sections, as with other crashes. This is hardly excellent agreement. The exploding plane theory explains these anomalies perfectly. Explosives can make a big plane into a small, wingless, tail-less, engine-less plane.
Comparing this to other crashes is a mistake since a) They were trying to crash & b) they were going full speed. Also, there is a video of an F4 Phantom (iirc) being slammed into a concrete wall at It's top speed by a rocket sled. It too is smashed to pieces.


The physical evidence, and many credible eye witness testimonies, point to a plane hitting the Pentagon wall. However, it was going so fast the human eye could not detect that it exploded a fraction of a second before hitting.

But why do it before impact? That would seem to cause less damage. Also it would likely leave a hard to explain blast pattern on the walls & ground. Not to mention that its the Pentagon... where military types are. Being that military types tend to be around high explosives, why risk someone (EOD for example) noticing the sound of HE?

Explosives would also explain the problems with the Flight Data Recorder (FDR).
How?


The OCT has an obvious problem. All people have an instinctive desire to live, even "devout" Muslims like Hani Hanjur and lap dance aficionado Muhammed Atta. How could Osama be sure they would not steer the plane away from their assigned buildings at the last moment? Or miss the building by human error?
No, all people don't. Especially when fighting for what they believe is a just cause. Do you think all suicide bombings are fake?

But a remote controlled drone aircraft has deadly accuracy, and no fear of death. Who has access to drones, and could program them?
So why risk the remote signal being noticed? Or the control being noticed during pre-flight inspection? Or the investigators finding equipment? Or someone feeling guilty & confessing? Or a myriad of other things?

I'm not saying this theory is the way it happened. Just that it could have happened this way, and we need to investigate it. Detectives do this every day, establishing motive and opportunity.
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Perhaps, but when the evidence doesn't match their theory, they change their theory.
 
The theory of a plane with explosives in the baggage compartment, remote controlled, exploding just prior to hitting the wall, with passengers and crew knocked out, perhaps with chloroform gas, would explain their sadly becoming DNA samples.

However, the modifications to a Boeing 757 or 767 necessary to accomplish remote control would amount to a major redesign and replacement of all the control systems. This could not be done without several months of design and construction work, involving the withdrawal from service of the four airliners involved, and the modifications would be obvious to anyone flying them after that. It's simply impossible.

The plane explosion scattered airliner debris all over the lawn, in a wide pattern, even on to Route 395. This corroborates the theory. If the plane exploded inside the Pentagon, debris would tend to shoot out mainly in the direction of the hole.

Misrepresenting the real events, like truthers always do. The airliner exploded as it hit the Pentagon, throwing lighter debris in all directions. The more massive components continued in the direction they'd already been going, penetrating the walls of the building. Describing this as "the plane exploded inside the Pentagon" is absurd and dishonest.

The first of the only 5 photo frames released (if we can believe a photo that has "Sep. 12" instead of Sep. 11) shows a huge flame going upwards and outwards in all directions. If the plane exploded inside the Pentagon, we would expect to see a flame shooting mostly out the hole.

Same again.

We observe a curiously small hole, with no distinct wing, engine, or tail marks. We don't see big sections, as with other crashes. This is hardly excellent agreement. The exploding plane theory explains these anomalies perfectly. Explosives can make a big plane into a small, wingless, tail-less, engine-less plane.

Again, misrepresenting the facts. We see a large hole corresponding to the fuselage impact, two smaller holes corresponding to the engine impacts, and widespread damage along the bottom of the wall close to ground level corresponding to the wing impacts. Lighter parts of the plane, such as the wingtips and the tailplane, didn't cause major structural damage. All in all, it agrees very precisely with what would be expected.

And this piece of truther misrepresentation is quite simply bizarre. We know that about 90 feet of the Pentagon wall collapsed. Truthers insist on pretending that only a 16 foot section was even damaged.

The physical evidence, and many credible eye witness testimonies, point to a plane hitting the Pentagon wall. However, it was going so fast the human eye could not detect that it exploded a fraction of a second before hitting.

Fantasy, and hence not worthy of comment.

Explosives would also explain the problems with the Flight Data Recorder (FDR).

Since there are no problems to explain, they won't have a hard time doing it. But I notice you simply throw out a sweeping assertion without tryin to justify it. I hereby challenge you to do so: explain, in detail, what are the problems with the FDR, and in detail how explosives explain those problems.

The OCT has an obvious problem. All people have an instinctive desire to live, even "devout" Muslims like Hani Hanjur and lap dance aficionado Muhammed Atta. How could Osama be sure they would not steer the plane away from their assigned buildings at the last moment? Or miss the building by human error?

The same is true of every suicide bomber; any one can change his mind at the last moment. And yet, so few of them do, because they've been persuaded that there are greater rewards awaiting them after death. It's just an operational risk. And if they'd missed the buildings, so what? Hundreds of people have still been killed in a successful terrorist attack; it's just a smaller victory, from al-Qaeda's point of view.

Oh, and that bit about Atta liking lap dancers: it's another lie. Look it up on 9/11 Myths.

But a remote controlled drone aircraft has deadly accuracy, and no fear of death. Who has access to drones, and could program them?

Nobody has access to drones resembling Boeing 757s and 767s, and airliners with electromechanical autopilots can't be programmed. So, your alternative scenario is (a) derived from lies and misrepresentations, and (b) physically impossible.

I'm not saying this theory is the way it happened. Just that it could have happened this way, and we need to investigate it. Detectives do this every day, establishing motive and opportunity.
[URL]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_193154dafdf441a9ca.jpg[/URL]

But they start from reality and plausibility, not lies and impossibilities. That's your problem, right there.

Dave
 
Well, I wish us both luck, observing the "bizarre" theories of each other. :)


The theory of a plane with explosives in the baggage compartment, remote controlled, exploding just prior to hitting the wall, with passengers and crew knocked out, perhaps with chloroform gas, would explain their sadly becoming DNA samples.

I hate to be the master of the obvious, but wouldn't it be alot less expensive to just use a the plane as a missile without the extra explosives or chloroform?

It would also go a long way to preventing smart people like you from figuring out their dastardly plans.
 
Oh for the love of GOD!! Not the "hole too small" myth again!

That stupidity came from Dylan et. al.'s vapid, stupid failure to get proper basic information. This is the hole they said was too small:
Pentagon-exit-hole-2-1.jpg
Pentagonexithole1.jpg


Problem is, that's not the entry hole. THIS IS:
composite.jpg


07mw-1.jpg


pentagon-aerial.jpg


You conspiracy advocates NEED start getting your basic information correct. This is an imperative. Otherwise, you will continue to be seen as unserious, ineffectual, and blatantly ignorant. You've already earned that judgement many times over, and unless you change, that judgement will continue to stick. Sharpen your arguments! Refuting this is like beating a paralyzed baby seal, and it speaks ill of you all that it's things like this that you continue to muster in support of your theories.
 
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You conspiracy advocates NEED start getting your basic information correct. This is an imperative. Otherwise, you will continue to be seen as unserious, ineffectual, and blatantly ignorant.

Unfortunately, it's also an insurmountable obstacle. If they start getting their basic information correct, then the next step is to get their logical deduction correct, and that, finally, will lead to getting their conclusions correct. And then they won't be conspiracy theorists any more.

Dave
 
blah blah blah more useless conjecture w/out evidence or facts


Do you know what else detectives do? They finish what they start.
Missing "85 videos?"
Missing "2.3 trillion?"
Put orders.

You might just want to figure those out before you go slandering more people.

have you figured them out yet?
 

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