Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

[Dave Rogers]

cicorp - help me out here.

I'm reading some of your posts, and it seems to me that you think an airplane hit the Pentagon AND one flew over?

What makes you think cicorp thinks it wasn't the same plane?

Dave

 

[Sabretooth]

[snip]...The point is: where are the concrete chunks, as found after all other concrete building collapses?...[snip]

PICTURED: No chunks of concrete...

 

[Animal]

The experiment was not described accurately to you. The topic of the experiment was not to explain what the dust consisted of. You would have been more of a Critical Thinker to ask to see the experiment, before judging it.

The topic of the experiment was to cover what happens to concrete specifically. No one denies that there were not other materials such as dry wall in the dust. There were plenty. The point is: where are the concrete chunks, as found after all other concrete building collapses?

Once again, the WTC buildings were not concrete structures. They had a 4-5 inch thick concrete floor slab with wire reinforcing tat was poured on a standard metal deck floor pan. The concrete was also "Light weight" less strength and more air. I have seen similar slabs fracture from normal use.


You only have to look as far as wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:September_14_2001_Ground_Zero_01.jpg

 

[BCR]

It is the old 2 plane hypothesis presented by Eastman. One acted as a decoy while the automated drone hit the Pentagon. The decoy veered off to the north (and over). I actually wrote an appendix for Mark Gaffney's book 911 Mystery Plane which outlined the limited evidence for this.

It explains Lagasse and Brooks accounts and supported by indirect lighting effects I discovered in the Citgo video. The indirect evidence suggests something airborne at approx 150 agl to the northeast at the time of impact.

However, the lighting event duration is too long to be accounted for by an aircraft. I still have not explained the lighting event, but I explored the 2 plane hypothesis and discarded it because of the lack of evidence.

Contrary to what P4T and CIT assert, I really did examine ALL of the CT's for the Pentagon attack with an open mind, eliminating them one-by-one for lack of evidence. In the end, only one 'theory' fit all of the data. People can call it the OCT or whatever they please, but the evidence overwhelmingly supports AAL77 (passengers and all) hitting the Pentagon. There is no credible evidence for any major contributing secondary event. I know that is no fun, but it is the 'truth'.

 

[twinstead]

It is the old 2 plane hypothesis presented by Eastman. One acted as a decoy while the automated drone hit the Pentagon. The decoy veered off to the north (and over). I actually wrote an appendix for Mark Gaffney's book 911 Mystery Plane which outlined the limited evidence for this.

It explains Lagasse and Brooks accounts and supported by indirect lighting effects I discovered in the Citgo video. The indirect evidence suggests something airborne at approx 150 agl to the northeast at the time of impact.

However, the lighting event duration is too long to be accounted for by an aircraft. I still have not explained the lighting event, but I explored the 2 plane hypothesis and discarded it because of the lack of evidence.

Contrary to what P4T and CIT assert, I really did examine ALL of the CT's for the Pentagon attack with an open mind, eliminating them one-by-one for lack of evidence. In the end, only one 'theory' fit all of the data. People can call it the OCT or whatever they please, but the evidence overwhelmingly supports AAL77 (passengers and all) hitting the Pentagon. There is no credible evidence for any major contributing secondary event. I know that is no fun, but it is the 'truth'.

Party pooper

 

[ElMondoHummus]

The experiment was not described accurately to you. The topic of the experiment was not to explain what the dust consisted of. You would have been more of a Critical Thinker to ask to see the experiment, before judging it.

The topic of the experiment was to cover what happens to concrete specifically. No one denies that there were not other materials such as dry wall in the dust. There were plenty. The point is: where are the concrete chunks, as found after all other concrete building collapses?

Here's the experiment in question so you can see its purpose for yourself. To use Governor George Pataki's words "the concrete was just pulverized!" He is surprised because even a non-scientist knows this is not the normal behavior of falling concrete.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoLjNO-Kz6I

Can anyone show an experiment where falling concrete pulverizes in to dust?

That is your defense? Seriously?
You seem to be missing the fact that there was indeed a lot of concrete that was not "pulverized":

You also seem to misunderstand that the point of modeling is supposed to model the pertinent elements of a system. Take the figure Dave Thomas kindly worked out for everyone:

Perhaps you should even do this little bit of physics for your own edification/education: calculate the gravitational potential energy of each tower before collapse. I estimated the mass of each floor as 4.14 million kilograms. The potential energy of the bottom floor is its mass (4.14 million kg) times gravity acceleration (9.8m/sec^2) times the height (3.8 meters), or about 154 million joules. The potential energy of the second floor is its mass (4.14 million kg) times gravity acceleration (9.8m/sec^2) times its height (3.8x2 = 7.6 meters), or about 309 million joules. Continue in this manner until you get to the very top (110th) floor. The potential energy of the top floor is its mass (4.14 million kg) times g (9.8m/sec^2) times the height (3.8x110 meters = 418m), or about 17 billion joules.

The potential energy of the tower as a whole is simply the sum of the PE of each floor, (154 + 309 + ... 17,000) million joules ~ 942 billion joules.

Since 4.18 billion joules is equivalent to one ton of tri-nitro-glycerin (TNT), each tower possessed a potential energy of about 225 tons of TNT, or around a quarter of a kiloton of TNT.

That means that each tower's collapse released gravitiational energy of around a quarter-kiloton of TNT, quite similar to the US W-54 nuclear weapon :The W-54's yield was 250 tons, very close to one tower's potential energy...

... each tower had ten times that energy to start with (220 tons TNT)... the energy released by the collapses of WTC 1 and 2 was:

... The twin collapses released almost half a kiloton of TNT's worth of energy, or about twenty small nukes' worth.

... then ask yourself what element of your model of throwing a concrete block on the street took that amount of energy scaled down to your experiment's dimensions into account. While you're at it, ask yourself what element of your model also replicated the exposure of the concrete in the block of forces within the "structure" coming apart and smashing elements of the structure against other internal elements on the way down. No, this isn't an appeal to perfection, this is an appeal for you to understand what actually happened. The Twin Towers didn't fall from the sky as a coherent, intact unit and hit the ground. And your block wasn't disintegrating internally against itself as it fell.

My point in bringing up the energy figures is to show that there was indeed enough energy available to have pulverized more of the material than was actually reduced to dust, had the system not allowed many elements to merely escape away from other elements. 900+ million joules, over half a kiloton of TNT equivalent. That's nuclear bomb-level energy there. And you wonder why any fraction of the concrete was ground to dust?

Fail all around.

 

[TruthMakesPeace]

We need a New Investigation to answer the 9/11 questions

First of all, all I know is that we need a New Investigation by an independent 9/11 Commission of scientists with PhD, Civil Engineers and at least 1 professional pilot, that answers these questions.

As stated, I see credible evidence for a North of Citgo approach (including testimony by Pentagon Police officers, grounds keepers, and a heliport monitor), but am not sure which theory is correct for what happened to the plane after that. Banking to hit the light poles from a NOC approach seems implausible. I doubt if a light pole can go through a cab window without scratching the hood. It is truly a quandary.

Ironically, the NOC topic can be discussed freely on JREF, but not on supposedly Truth oriented 911Blogger.com which is censored to conform to the monitors' views of what is plausible. It takes an uncensored forum to get to the Truth. I'd rather endure nasty name calling on JREF than endure limits to discussion.

I am still gathering ideas and information, but an official Commission should really do this. Personally, I have ruled out non-plane hypotheses for complete lack of evidence. Jesse Ventura's mention of the stupid missile theory hurt his TV show. However, he is right it is suspicious that the Accounting section was hit (with records of $2.3 trillion) and under construction (an opportunity to plant bombs). Until we have a New Investigation, including photos from the 85 security cameras, showing a plane approaching the Pentagon, we can only make amateur conjectures.

On one hand, I don't want to be criticized for avoiding your questions. On the other hand, I will probably be criticized just for stating alternative theories. But it is better to respond, and get new ideas. Let me emphasize that all we can do is theorize on many aspects of 9/11 until a New Investigation is completed, one that meets the evidence standards of a Court of Law, and answers these questions scientifically, with a peer reviewed final report. Here goes.

If the aircraft flew over the Pentagon where did it go?

The OCT says Flight 77 did not fly over, but right into the Pentagon.
Another theory asserts it banked NW, up the Potomac, to another air field.
Another asserts it banked SE and landed at DCA.
Again, security camera photos could quickly tell us and put a stop to the Conspiracy Theories.

Where is it now?

The OCT says it is in various parts, wherever the FBI stores them.
Some parts were removed from the Federal crime scene, which is outrageous.
If it landed, the perpetrators probably would have dismantled or hidden it.
A thorough match of plane part serial numbers needs to be published.

What happened to the passengers and crew?

The OCT says they perished in the Pentagon.
One theory is they landed at an air field near the KY/OH/PA border just as a drone took off, during the transponder-off period.
One branch of this theory is that they are hostages in custody somewhere.
Another sad theory is they were engaged as collateral damage, sacrifices for the NeoCon's War on Terror.

How did their DNA get to be at the crash site?

The OCT says everyone from the plane crashed at the Pentagon.
One theory says the DNA was brought from the air field to the mortuary lab at Dover AFB.
Another theory says the DNA results were manipulated, and not independently verified.
Another theory suggests infiltration of the Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT).
The release of Chain of Custody details would help put a stop to conjecture and unfair accusations.

Which one is true? I don't know. I would prefer to believe that our Government always tells us the truth, and that there is a logical reason explaining every question. But being told not to ask questions is unAmerican. All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation with subpoena power.

 

[Sabretooth]

We need a New Investigation to answer the 9/11 questions

No we don't. You need to learn physics and learn how they apply to the real world instead of doing all your "investigating" on youtube.

 

[Dave Rogers]

First of all, we need a New Investigation by an independent 9/11 Commission of scientists with PhD, Civil Engineers and at least 1 professional pilot, that answers these questions.

If you want your call for a new investigation to be taken seriously, your current position, of pretending that all but one of the previous ones do not exist, will be a serious obstacle.

Until we have a New Investigation, including photos from the 85 security cameras, showing a plane approaching the Pentagon, we can only make conjectures.

Another obstacle will be your continued insistence on being presented with evidence that is known not to exist.

I don't want to be accused of avoiding your questions, but emphasize that all we can do is theorize until a New Investigation is completed, one that meets the evidence standards of a court of law.

See the first obstacle.

The OCT says Flight 77 did not fly over, but right into the Pentagon.
Another theory asserts it banked NW and up the Potomac
Another asserts it banked SE and landed at DCA.
Again, security camera photos could quickly tell us.

See the second.

The OCT says it is in various parts, wherever the FBI stores them.
Some parts were removed from the Federal crime scene, which is outrageous.
If it landed, the perpetrators probably would have dismantled or hidden it.

A third obstacle would be your obvious ignorance of the duties of the FBI and the circumstances in which they may allow objects to be removed from a crime scene.

Which one is true? I don't know. All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation.

And a fourth might be your continued insistence that uninformed speculation has the same status as actual evidence.

Putting it quite simply: Nobody cares that you're either too unintelligent, to dishonest or too idealogically blinded to figure out what the rest of the world already knows. Nobody has any obligation to spoon-feed you knowledge that you're unwilling to accept. And, for that reason, no new investigation is needed; all that's needed is for you to grow up and learn how to think.

Dave

 

[twinstead]

The OCT says Flight 77 did not fly over, but right into the Pentagon.
Another theory asserts it banked NW, up the Potomac, to another air field.
Another asserts it banked SE and landed at DCA.
Again, security camera photos could quickly tell us and put a stop to the Conspiracy Theories.

Is there any evidence for any of the above theories except the "OCT"?

The OCT says it is in various parts, wherever the FBI stores them.
Some parts were removed from the Federal crime scene, which is outrageous.
If it landed, the perpetrators probably would have dismantled or hidden it.

Is there any evidence for any of the above theories except the "OCT"?

The OCT says they perished in the Pentagon.
One theory is they landed at an air field near the KY/OH/PA border just as a drone took off.
One branch of this theory is that they are hostages in custody somewhere.
Another sad theory is they were engaged as collateral damage, sacrifices for the NeoCon's war on terror.

Is there any evidence for any of the above theories except the "OCT"?

The OCT says everyone from the plane crashed at the Pentagon.
One theory says the DNA was brought from the air field to the Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT) at Dover AFB.
Another theory says the DNA results were manipulated, and not independently verified, implicating someone at DMORT.
Chain of Custody details would help put a stop to conjecture.

Is there any evidence for any of the above theories except the "OCT"?

Which one is true? I don't know.

Yes you do. You're just looking for confirmation.

All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation with subpoena power.

You want a new investigation? Not with my tax money unless you can convince somebody who can actually do something about it that your little cult is more than a bunch of ideologues, snake oil salesmen, and idiots. Otherwise pay for it yourselves.

The "OCT" (it is called the commonly-held narrative of 911 for a reason, cicorp) is the theory that fits ALL the available evidence the best. 19 Islamic terrorists hijacked 4 planes, flew 2 into the WTC, 1 into the Pentagon, and one into a field in Pennsylvania. ALL the evidence points to that.

 

[NoahFence]

cicorp - were there 2 aircraft at the pentagon or not?

1 striking it, and another flying over?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Which one is true? I don't know. All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation and don't understand why anyone would resist getting more information.

You honestly can't tell?

 

[BCR]

Do you know how silly asking for a new investigation based on hypotheticals sounds? An investigation is only re-opened based on solid NEW evidence which would significantly alter the conclusions of the original. Two DPS officers who both claim the plane hit the Pentagon just ain't that sort of compelling evidence. Especially when one cannot even get the location of physical damage (light poles) right and the other says the plane was a United.

And what 85 security cameras are you talking about? Show me the list with locations. There are some security videos that the FBI has not released yet, but I am working on it and to date have gotten most of the relevant ones from them. But you just can't wave your hand over some imaginary 85 cameras and have them magically appear (unless you live in fantasy land). If you request a SPECIFIC camera, then you might get a response. I assume you have made such a request. If not, then why do you wish to waste taxpayer money chasing every psychotic delusion on the planet if you will not do the basic work needed to answer your own questions?

 

[Telltale Tom]

First of all, all I know is that we need a New Investigation by an independent 9/11 Commission of scientists with PhD, Civil Engineers and at least 1 professional pilot, that answers these questions.
<snip> All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation with subpoena power.

I think that the panel should be chaired by Richard Gage because he has made it clear that all he is interested in is the truth.

And to show his strength of character he has already ruled out directed energy weapons and mini-nukes and confirmed that a plane did hit the Pentagon much to the annoyance of some of his supporters, like you i suspect.

 

[DGM]

I think that the panel should be chaired by Richard Gage because he has made it clear that all he is interested in is the truth.

And to show his strength of character he has already ruled out directed energy weapons and mini-nukes and confirmed that a plane did hit the Pentagon much to the annoyance of some of his supporters, like you i suspect.

So much for having an "open mind". I'm sure cicorp wouldn't go for someone that biased in his panel.

 

[TruthersLie]

First of all, all I know is that we need a New Investigation by an independent 9/11 Commission of scientists with PhD, Civil Engineers and at least 1 professional pilot, that answers these questions.

Nice handwave on all the issues you keep getting your ass handed to you about including
put orders
no investigation
radar and flight 77

Why would you need phd's, civil engineers and a professional pilot for a GOVERNMENTAL/POLITICAL report? That is what the politicians are for.

The NIST reports have had hundreds of the best PhD Civil engineers in the WORLD working on them.

And your 1400ish architectural and engineering professionals (another lie you got nailed on) haven't managed to produce a single peer reviewed engineering refutation of ANY part of NIST in ANY language in ANY peer reviewed journal ANYWHERE.

As stated, I see credible evidence for a North of Citgo approach (including testimony by Pentagon Police officers, grounds keepers, and a heliport monitor), but am not sure which theory is correct for what happened to the plane after that. Banking to hit the light poles from a NOC approach seems implausible. I doubt if a light pole can go through a cab window without scratching the hood. It is truly a quandary.

There is NO credible evidence for NOC or other no planer idiocy. The evidence is there.

Ironically, the NOC topic can be discussed freely on JREF, but not on supposedly Truth oriented 911Blogger.com which is censored to conform to the monitors' views of what is plausible. It takes an uncensored forum to get to the Truth. I'd rather endure nasty name calling on JREF than endure limits to discussion.

How freaking crazy do you have to be to not realize that other ******* crazy folks think you are nuts?

I am still gathering ideas and information, but an official Commission should really do this. Personally, I have ruled out non-plane hypotheses for complete lack of evidence. Jesse Ventura's mention of the stupid missile theory hurt his TV show. However, he is right it is suspicious that the Accounting section was hit (with records of $2.3 trillion)

Now the "missing 2.3 trillion" way to gish gallop. Please educate yourself... 911myths.com look up missing 2.3 trillion and see that 1. It was known about in the spring of 2000. 2. No money was "missing" but it was accounting issues. 3. that over 95% of the "missing" funds were FOUND in feb 2002. OMG...

and under construction (an opportunity to plant bombs). Until we have a New Investigation, including photos from the 85 security cameras, showing a plane approaching the Pentagon, we can only make amateur conjectures.

arguments from IGNORANCE and INCREDULITY ROCK!!!!

On one hand, I don't want to be criticized for avoiding your questions. On the other hand, I will probably be criticized just for stating alternative theories.

before you open your pie hole and show how ignorant and stupid you are, you might want to READ the information out there. Like with the PUT orders...
citation for the claim about the DB bank buying the put orders... you don't have any.

But it is better to respond, and get new ideas. Let me emphasize that all we can do is theorize on many aspects of 9/11 until a New Investigation is completed, one that meets the evidence standards of a Court of Law, and answers these questions scientifically, with a peer reviewed final report. Here goes.

Peer review? You do know that NIST is peer reviewed right?

The OCT says Flight 77 did not fly over, but right into the Pentagon.
Another theory asserts it banked NW, up the Potomac, to another air field.
Another asserts it banked SE and landed at DCA.
Again, security camera photos could quickly tell us and put a stop to the Conspiracy Theories.

you have been informed about how security cameras work.. but you keep on repeating stupid and inaccurate LIES.

The OCT says it is in various parts, wherever the FBI stores them.
Some parts were removed from the Federal crime scene, which is outrageous.
If it landed, the perpetrators probably would have dismantled or hidden it.
A thorough match of plane part serial numbers needs to be published.

Why? FDR and RADAR shows which flight took off, and which flight crashed into the pentagon. And we have a serial number which matches up with flight 77.

We also ahve the witnesses, the DNA of the victims and the rest.

The OCT says they perished in the Pentagon.
One theory is they landed at an air field near the KY/OH/PA border just as a drone took off, during the transponder-off period.
One branch of this theory is that they are hostages in custody somewhere.
Another sad theory is they were engaged as collateral damage, sacrifices for the NeoCon's War on Terror.

and you have NO evidence of this besides for bs which is just pissing on the graves of those who died on 9/11.

But the conspiracy grows and grows and grows... now your numbers are in the THOUSANDS....

The OCT says everyone from the plane crashed at the Pentagon.
One theory says the DNA was brought from the air field to the mortuary lab at Dover AFB.
Another theory says the DNA results were manipulated, and not independently verified.
Another theory suggests infiltration of the Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT).
The release of Chain of Custody details would help put a stop to conjecture and unfair accusations.

Why is it any of your *********** BUSINESS? Oh it isn't. But keep on pissing on the dead and ******** on the living.

Which one is true? I don't know. I would prefer to believe that our Government always tells us the truth, and that there is a logical reason explaining every question. But being told not to ask questions is unAmerican. All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation with subpoena power.

How would having subpoena power make any difference? Oh the fear of a subpoena would cause the perps to fall to their knees on live tv and confess...

 

[Telltale Tom]

<snip>

For 9/11 there was not a single PhD in science or Civil Engineer, only Bush appointed politicians. As it was, one actually quit (Senator Max Cleland) saying it was "a farce". Keans and Hamilton admit the Commission was underfunded and incomplete in their book, Without Precedent. Is it too much to ask to have a Commission that the members don't criticize themselves?

Well not quite true, because hundreds of PhD's and engineers supported the NIST investigation. Indeed it will be really difficult to find experts in tall buildings that were not involved in the NIST study, in some way. I assume that theses experts were inevitably just saying what the government wanted to hear so they could win big contracts.

i am sure they will confess when the subpoena's start flying. How can they live with the guilt?

 

[sts60]

Let's put aside, for a moment, all the witnesses who saw an American Airlines jetliner fly into the Pentagon - and the lack of witnesses who saw it fly over. Let's also put aside the radar, FDR data, plane wreckage, passenger remains and DNA identification, and the fact that there is no evidence the plane or its occupants were anywhere else after that terrible morning.

Now let's suppose you're an evil [insert favorite evil cabal] conspirator with the desire to make everybody think that some hijackers flew an airliner into the Pentagon.

You can either

(a) recruit and train some hijackers, and allow them to carry out their plan, or

(b) get operatives to fly the real plane at the Pentagon, make a very dicey last-second flyover, hope that no one in the DC/NoVA area on that crystal-clear day notices (then fly the plane without being tracked to a secret place, and dispose of the entire aircraft and all its passengers undetectably) while also launching a large missile without being detected, which then flies undetected over DC/NoVa and into the Pentagon without being spotted at the exact moment of the real plane's flyover, then carefully scattering real plane parts (with matching serial numbers) and passenger remains (from the same passengers who you are now flying away from the Pentagon) through the burning building without being detected, and hope that none of the many, many operatives you need for this secret plan ever confesses out of guilt or the fact that a lot of people would pay him a lot of money for the story. And hope that trained investigators think that warhead damage looks like that from a 757.

Which would you choose, knowing that your plot being exposed means that you would end up jerking on the end of a rope?

The idea that there was an elaborate plot to convince people that the Pentagon was hit by AA 77 by not hitting it with AA 77 is grotesquely stupid, and anyone who believes it after thinking about it for more than about half a minute should be fitted for a straitjacket.

 

[tsig]

First of all, all I know is that we need a New Investigation by an independent 9/11 Commission of scientists with PhD, Civil Engineers and at least 1 professional pilot, that answers these questions.
As stated, I see credible evidence for a North of Citgo approach (including testimony by Pentagon Police officers, grounds keepers, and a heliport monitor), but am not sure which theory is correct for what happened to the plane after that. Banking to hit the light poles from a NOC approach seems implausible. I doubt if a light pole can go through a cab window without scratching the hood. It is truly a quandary.

Ironically, the NOC topic can be discussed freely on JREF, but not on supposedly Truth oriented 911Blogger.com which is censored to conform to the monitors' views of what is plausible. It takes an uncensored forum to get to the Truth. I'd rather endure nasty name calling on JREF than endure limits to discussion.

I am still gathering ideas and information, but an official Commission should really do this. Personally, I have ruled out non-plane hypotheses for complete lack of evidence. Jesse Ventura's mention of the stupid missile theory hurt his TV show. However, he is right it is suspicious that the Accounting section was hit (with records of $2.3 trillion) and under construction (an opportunity to plant bombs). Until we have a New Investigation, including photos from the 85 security cameras, showing a plane approaching the Pentagon, we can only make amateur conjectures.

On one hand, I don't want to be criticized for avoiding your questions. On the other hand, I will probably be criticized just for stating alternative theories. But it is better to respond, and get new ideas. Let me emphasize that all we can do is theorize on many aspects of 9/11 until a New Investigation is completed, one that meets the evidence standards of a Court of Law, and answers these questions scientifically, with a peer reviewed final report. Here goes.


The OCT says Flight 77 did not fly over, but right into the Pentagon.
Another theory asserts it banked NW, up the Potomac, to another air field.
Another asserts it banked SE and landed at DCA.
Again, security camera photos could quickly tell us and put a stop to the Conspiracy Theories.


The OCT says it is in various parts, wherever the FBI stores them.
Some parts were removed from the Federal crime scene, which is outrageous.
If it landed, the perpetrators probably would have dismantled or hidden it.
A thorough match of plane part serial numbers needs to be published.


The OCT says they perished in the Pentagon.
One theory is they landed at an air field near the KY/OH/PA border just as a drone took off, during the transponder-off period.
One branch of this theory is that they are hostages in custody somewhere.
Another sad theory is they were engaged as collateral damage, sacrifices for the NeoCon's War on Terror.


The OCT says everyone from the plane crashed at the Pentagon.
One theory says the DNA was brought from the air field to the mortuary lab at Dover AFB.
Another theory says the DNA results were manipulated, and not independently verified.
Another theory suggests infiltration of the Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team (DMORT).
The release of Chain of Custody details would help put a stop to conjecture and unfair accusations.

Which one is true? I don't know. I would prefer to believe that our Government always tells us the truth, and that there is a logical reason explaining every question. But being told not to ask questions is unAmerican. All I am sure of is that we need a New Investigation with subpoena power.

Good news, A&E for 911 truth has 1400+ of them so there you go.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Evidently the 'truthers' have a different morality to the rest of us who find nothing strange in the quiet heroics of the ordinary person in a disaster.

And even if he did cynically use it as a photo op that says nothing to contradict an AA 757 piloted by a terrorist being flown into the building.
I amazes me when they add comments about his behavior as if they were relevant. Now if he had looked at his watch and said excuse me and went down to the bomb shelter a couple of minutes before it hit..........