Pedophiles are not Child Molesters

[Porpoise of Life]

And (not that I think the OP believes this, but it's still something worth mentioning), not every child molester is a pedophile.
Many are just opportunists going for the easiest victims.

 

[TragicMonkey]

True. They should not come to me for help. If I'm in a good mood I'll tell them to call a doctor. Otherwise....

If I'm standing over their bloody, crying mess, I will probably do my level best to kill them.

I can't imagine anyone going to you for help with anything, ever, now. You sound like a psychopath.

 

[Belz...]

I saw it, it looks like more unsupported assertion. Was there something I missed? You just claiming things doesn't make it fact. Now yes, we can get into another long winded conversation where you imply that I don't have the mental makeup to understand how humans work, like in the other thread.

I never said anything of the sort. Perhaps you just don't react well to being told you don't understand something.

But yes, this is exactly a case where experience of how humans act in the real world helps. In a society where a belief, a condition or an impulse is seen as a vile thing worthy of physical violence and equation with the worst crimes, people don't tend to want anyone to know that they have that belief, condition or impulse. That means not consulting health professionals to ensure that this information never comes to light.

So I ask you again: do YOU think that, in a scenario like this, where one goes without treatment, the person is more likely or less likely to act on their impulses?

 

[Belz...]

True. They should not come to me for help. If I'm in a good mood I'll tell them to call a doctor. Otherwise....

If I'm standing over their bloody, crying mess, I will probably do my level best to kill them.

You would kill someone for having a desire?

No wonder you don't understand the concept of treating them like humans.

 

[3point14]

Is there any particular reason a pedophile would be going to DragonLady for help rather than going to any licensed medical practitioner? I might have missed that part.

They wouldn't. I'm using a conversational conceit. I shall try, for the benefit of those that don't get that, to be more literal.

Any licensed medical practitioner (or random bod on the internet) having a conversation about how to help ill people is going to be viewed by dragonlady (and her shrill ilk) to be an enabler.


Everyone in this thread has been extremely careful in how they word things and yet she still thinks we're all advocating child rape.

How do you think she'd react to budget to treat pedophiles. I'm not psychic,but 'll wager I can guess.

 

[Belz...]

Is there any particular reason a pedophile would be going to DragonLady for help rather than going to any licensed medical practitioner? I might have missed that part.

People often confide to friends and family for ....


... for ****'s sake, why am I still explaining basic human beheaviour on this forum?

 

[plague311]

I never said anything of the sort. Perhaps you just don't react well to being told you don't understand something.

Especially when I do understand it, but I'm conversing with someone that just says I don't. Which means, I obviously don't, amiright?

But yes, this is exactly a case where experience of how humans act in the real world helps. In a society where a belief, a condition or an impulse is seen as a vile thing worthy of physical violence and equation with the worst crimes, people don't tend to want anyone to know that they have that belief, condition or impulse. That means not consulting health professionals to ensure that this information never comes to light.

And calling them a pedophile rather than a child molester helps this...how? They aren't telling anyone, so people wouldn't know, but if they're sitting at the dinner table they have to make sure to phrase it properly? This is just...dumb.

So I ask you again: do YOU think that, in a scenario like this, where one goes without treatment, the person is more likely or less likely to act on their impulses?

I...don't care. I'll leave you guys to this thread.

 

[3point14]

True. They should not come to me for help. If I'm in a good mood I'll tell them to call a doctor. Otherwise....

If I'm standing over their bloody, crying mess, I will probably do my level best to kill them.

Whose bloody, crying mess?

There's no crying mess in this hypothetical. The hypothetical literally advises that there isn't. Yet you introduce a victim to the scenario. Why did you do that? Why did you extend the conversation to include a victim where one was no mooted before? I was very explicitly talking about someone who had not and did not want to act on their urges.

Why did you add a victim to the scenario? That seems very odd to me.

 

[TragicMonkey]

One point implied but not openly spelled out yet is this: if you're going to punish someone for desiring to do X just as harshly as you'd punish them for actually doing X, what's their motivation for not going ahead and doing X? If they're damned either way they may well decide to go ahead and do it.

 

[Belz...]

Especially when I do understand it, but I'm conversing with someone that just says I don't. Which means, I obviously don't, amiright?

And where did you leap from not understand to not having the mental makeup to understand it, exactly?

And calling them a pedophile rather than a child molester helps this...how?

Did you not read the very paragraph you just quoted? If they feel it's safe to do so, then they are more likely to talk about it and seek treatment than if they don't. That's not just basic human behaviour, it's basic logic.

I...don't care. I'll leave you guys to this thread.

Bull ****. You can't tell me that you don't care about whether children get molested more or less. I don't believe you.

 

[3point14]

And (not that I think the OP believes this, but it's still something worth mentioning), not every child molester is a pedophile.
Many are just opportunists going for the easiest victims.

In some cases they're just people of criminally poor judgement, not mentally ill at all.

I have much less sympathy for those that knowingly sleep with physically sexually mature persons under the age of consent than I do for those that are mentally ill and don't act on their urges.

 

[Belz...]

One point implied but not openly spelled out yet is this: if you're going to punish someone for desiring to do X just as harshly as you'd punish them for actually doing X, what's their motivation for not going ahead and doing X? If they're damned either way they may well decide to go ahead and do it.

I thought you had spelled it out pretty clearly in an earlier post, no?

But clearer now. That's essentially what I was getting at as well.

 

[DragonLady]

I was just reading an article about how when doctors are rude to overweight patients because of their weight it doesn't inspire them to lose weight, it just inspires them to avoid seeing doctors. Shame isn't a very effective motivator. It's good for making people depressed and angry, though. Let's see, could there be any downsides to making non-acting pedophiles depressed and angry, convincing them there can be no help and their situation is totally hopeless?

Okay, now that I can agree with.

The doctor should be able to keep a calm demeanor, and send the nice pedophile to the psyche ward without a fuss.

But for those of us "in the wild" I don't see how taking the shame away from the desire to harm a child can ever be a good thing.

Nor do I give any validity to the excuses so often made:

"I LOVE children; and would never HURT one."
"A child should have sex early, so they'll have fewer hangups about it"
"S/He came on to me!"
"What I did was...inappropriate...."

Thing is: you cannot separate the act of sex from the harm to the child. They are one and the same.

"I want to have sex with the children" and "I want to damage the children in ways they will never completely overcome" are one, and the same.

When they say one, you need to hear the other.

 

[TragicMonkey]

In some cases they're just people of criminally poor judgement, not mentally ill at all.

I have much less sympathy for those that knowingly sleep with physically sexually mature persons under the age of consent than I do for those that are mentally ill and don't act on their urges.

And that raises another issue: what if pedophilia is actually an illness, and treatable? If the disease model applies then it would be unjust to judge the patients. If we discover tomorrow that pedophilia is the result of a viral infection in utero, and can be cured by taking a pill, then all future generations will look at us the way we look at our ancestors for treating lepers so badly.

 

[Belz...]

Okay, now that I can agree with.

The doctor should be able to keep a calm demeanor, and send the nice pedophile to the psyche ward without a fuss.

But for those of us "in the wild" I don't see how taking the shame away from the desire to harm a child can ever be a good thing.

And yet it's been explained to you over and over why the larger's society's treatment of their condition can influence their decision to seek help. It's clear no one would ever go to you, since you're musing about killing them on sight.

Nor do I give any validity to the excuses so often made:

"I LOVE children; and would never HURT one."
"A child should have sex early, so they'll have fewer hangups about it"
"S/He came on to me!"
"What I did was...inappropriate...."

That is, again, not what anyone here is talking about. You are insisting on adding victims where there are none stipulated.

"I want to have sex with the children" and "I want to damage the children in ways they will never completely overcome" are one, and the same.

Just as "I want to eat lots of chocolate" is exactly the same as "I want to damage my body and gain weight".

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Nobody here is saying pedophiles should be able to have sex with children...

 

[Belz...]

Nobody here is saying pedophiles should be able to have sex with children...

Incredible how many times we have to point out that something that hasn't been said in this thread has, in fact, never been said.

 

[DragonLady]

I can't imagine anyone going to you for help with anything, ever, now. You sound like a psychopath.

by "bloody, crying mess" I meant a raped child.

If I were standing over a child that had been hurt like that, I do think I would try to kill the person who did it.

But...in other circumstances, I do believe in medical help.

 

[Belz...]

by "bloody, crying mess" I meant a raped child.

If I were standing over a child that had been hurt like that, I do think I would try to kill the person who did it.

I would try to help the child, instead.

 

[DragonLady]

I was very explicitly talking about someone who had not and did not want to act on their urges.

Because as the OP pointed out, abstinence only doesn't work very well.

Further, who is claiming they had not and did not want to act on their urges?

Either they have this urge -which is, by definition a desire- or they don't.

If they don't want to act, but are merely thinking about it, that should be treated like any other obsession. They need medical help; and all the sympathy in the world won't fix the problem.

But if they have acted, they don't need or deserve sympathy.