PC vs MAC

[CFLarsen]

And Teak, if you'd rather dismiss your clients' efforts to send you files by arrogantly blaming them for compatibility problems rather than working together to solve them, maybe they should find another marketing consultancy? Just a thought...

It's not just a question of clients sending you files you can't read. It's very much a question of you sending clients/others files they can't read.

It goes both ways.

Being free of Microsoft is not about being Microsoft-free. It's about having a choice. And I, personally, don't want that choice to be based largely on what everyone else is using simply because Microsoft doesn't play well with others.

If that choice costs you clients, or people who have you as their client, what then?

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

If that choice costs you clients, or people who have you as their client, what then?

Then that is his perogative. I am primarily a .NET consultant, and that choice may cost me potential Linux or Mac-based clients. That is also my perogative.

 

[Ian Osborne]

It's not just a question of clients sending you files you can't read. It's very much a question of you sending clients/others files they can't read.

It goes both ways.

True enough, but don't you think it's better to work something out than apportion the blame? It's not limited to Mac/Windows exchanges either. I once had a writer send me material which lost all its punctuation when I opened it. We were both on Macs. We never did work out why this happened, but we got around the problem by his zipping the file before emailing.

 

[CFLarsen]

Then that is his perogative. I am primarily a .NET consultant, and that choice may cost me potential Linux or Mac-based clients. That is also my perogative.

Sure. But if the vast majority uses X, and you choose to use Y which is incompatible with X, then you are not going to get a lot of business.

True enough, but don't you think it's better to work something out than apportion the blame? It's not limited to Mac/Windows exchanges either. I once had a writer send me material which lost all its punctuation when I opened it. We were both on Macs. We never did work out why this happened, but we got around the problem by his zipping the file before emailing.

That is not a discussion I would take with my client, and I would hate to take that discussion if I were someone's client.

It is simply a question of focusing on what is important. Do companies and clients want to exchange documents, or do they want to argue which format is the best?

Do you want to tell your client that he should switch to a format that will narrow his abilities to exchange data with the rest of the world?

If so, you will go to bed hungry.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Do you want to tell your client that he should switch to a format that will narrow his abilities to exchange data with the rest of the world?

Almost certainly unnecessary. As has been discussed earlier, there's usually a simple fix to get around these problems. And don't forget Macs may only have single-figure market share overall, but they're very popular with those who work in creative industries. If you're in publishing, for example, the Mac is a standard. If you're in that business, you'd better make sure you can open Mac-created files, even if you're not a Mac user yourself.

 

[kevin]

I use Linux (as home servers, no GUI at all), Windows (I used to be help desk for Windows, now I focus on Windows Servers) and Macs. I have all 3 at home. I've been using Linux since Debian slink (switched to Gentoo after woody). I've been using Windows since DOS 3, including Windows 3.1. I've been using Mac since System 7 (although I used Apple ]['s in high school.)

I know of no peripheral available for Windows that isn't also available for the Mac (there may be manufacturers of specific devices that don't support Macs but there is always someone that makes the same thing that does.) The laptops and Mac mini are as upgradeable as other laptops. I've upgraded drives and memory in iBooks, PowerBooks, Cubes (all these use laptop components). I've replaced the ethernet daughter board on a Cube. On desktops I've replaced video cards, hard drive cards (SCSI, SATA, IDE, all are available.) There are no Mac motherboards available so that would be the only upgrade unavailable to the general public that Windows machines have. I don't know anyone outside of hardcore computerists that bother with this.

I've not done it myself (my mini is PPC instead of Intel based) but the current Mac mini is CPU upgradeable. This was not as easy in the past because Motorola/IBM didn't have PPC chips in stores like intel, but it was somewhat possible.

http://www.macintouch.com/specialreports/minimonster/index.html

For USB, bluetooth and firewire devices Macs are usually easier add-ons/upgrades than PCs. Most drivers are already included and usually pretty much work. The exceptions here are printers and scanners. They can be harder to do on Macs than on Windows. I typically purchase these from companies that have good Mac support. My general rule of thumb is that all printer manufacturers suck. big time. I hate printing problems.

Both Windows and Mac tend to be better than Linux at ease of adding stuff on. But Linux has come a loooong way in the past couple of years.

As far as the base OS goes, I prefer Mac. I like the UNIX underpinnings and security, I prefer the GUI so much more it isn't even close. When I boot into Windows most of the apps that auto-start are to keep the OS running (anti-spyware, anti-virus, etc....) When I boot the mac most of the auto-start programs are things I will be using the whole time. When I use Windows I feel like I'm constantly fighting an OS that was designed by a drunk committee. OS X tends to get out of the way and I'm not arguing with the damn OS all the time.

Apple's OS releases usually run faster on the same hardware and actually add useful useable features. Vista will barely run on hardware that is being sold TODAY. I can't think of any usable new features.

Both Apple Finder and Windows Explorer suck.

Internet Explorer sucks more than Safari, but Firefox is better than both. I prefer Camino on the Mac (it's gecko based.)

Applescript Studio in XCode is way better than Visual Basic .Net Express Edition.

Macs are price competitive with similarly configured Windows machines from large manufacturers (Dell, HP) but not with an el-cheapo built with the cheapest parts available.

 

[geni]

I use Linux (as home servers, no GUI at all), Windows (I used to be help desk for Windows, now I focus on Windows Servers) and Macs. I have all 3 at home. I've been using Linux since Debian slink (switched to Gentoo after woody). I've been using Windows since DOS 3, including Windows 3.1. I've been using Mac since System 7 (although I used Apple ]['s in high school.)

I know of no peripheral available for Windows that isn't also available for the Mac (there may be manufacturers of specific devices that don't support Macs but there is always someone that makes the same thing that does.)

Physics cards?

Apple's OS releases usually run faster on the same hardware and actually add useful useable features. Vista will barely run on hardware that is being sold TODAY. I can't think of any usable new features.

There is very little being sold new today that won't run vista and when most of the computer useing world is used to useing your current systems messing with what the user can do risks loseing customers.

Macs are price competitive

So more expensive?

with similarly configured Windows machines from large manufacturers (Dell, HP)

Why would I want something configured like a mac?

Still lets compare.

basic iMac £670

* 512MB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x256MB
* Keyboard (English) & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (English)
* 17-inch TFT display
* 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo 2 processor
* 24x Combo drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)
* Intel GMA 950 graphics with 64MB of shared memory
* AirPort Extreme

against that is dell's DimensionTM E521 £629

AMD AthlonTM 64 X2 dual-core processor 5000+
1024MB DDR2 RAM
19" Analogue Flat Panel Monitor
320 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200rpm)
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB ATI® RADEON® X1300 Pro graphics card

I think the dell wins on everything except the optical drive (although it appears they both fail by only haveing one).

 

[tsg]

If that choice costs you clients, or people who have you as their client, what then?

Ideally, it wouldn't. I would hopefully be able to choose an application that saves data in a compatible format with those of my clients regardless of what operating system I or they are running. That is all I hope for out of Linux.

 

[rustypouch]

Physics cards?



There is very little being sold new today that won't run vista and when most of the computer useing world is used to useing your current systems messing with what the user can do risks loseing customers.



So more expensive?



Why would I want something configured like a mac?

Still lets compare.

basic iMac £670

* 512MB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x256MB
* Keyboard (English) & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (English)
* 17-inch TFT display
* 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo 2 processor
* 24x Combo drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)
* Intel GMA 950 graphics with 64MB of shared memory
* AirPort Extreme

against that is dell's DimensionTM E521 £629

AMD AthlonTM 64 X2 dual-core processor 5000+
1024MB DDR2 RAM
19" Analogue Flat Panel Monitor
320 GB SATA Hard Drive (7200rpm)
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
256MB ATI® RADEON® X1300 Pro graphics card

I think the dell wins on everything except the optical drive (although it appears they both fail by only haveing one).

Actually, I would say that Dell wins on this too. Although it is slower, it will burn DVDs, while the Mac will only read them.

 

[phyz]

Sure. But if the vast majority uses X, and you choose to use Y which is incompatible with X, then you are not going to get a lot of business.

I think you've milked this argument for more than it's worth. Bring me up to speed here. Name me some file formats that get written on a Mac these days that can't be read on a PC.

I think you might be stuck in a moment that you can't get out of. Like 1988.

What electronic file has a Mac user sent you since, say TAM4, that you couldn't open on your PC? I'm just curious.

 

[CFLarsen]

Almost certainly unnecessary. As has been discussed earlier, there's usually a simple fix to get around these problems. And don't forget Macs may only have single-figure market share overall, but they're very popular with those who work in creative industries. If you're in publishing, for example, the Mac is a standard. If you're in that business, you'd better make sure you can open Mac-created files, even if you're not a Mac user yourself.

We are not talking about a specific industry.

Ideally, it wouldn't. I would hopefully be able to choose an application that saves data in a compatible format with those of my clients regardless of what operating system I or they are running. That is all I hope for out of Linux.

"Ideally", yes. "Hopefully" is not a good business strategy.

I think you've milked this argument for more than it's worth. Bring me up to speed here. Name me some file formats that get written on a Mac these days that can't be read on a PC.

I think you might be stuck in a moment that you can't get out of. Like 1988.

What electronic file has a Mac user sent you since, say TAM4, that you couldn't open on your PC? I'm just curious.

You assume that every Mac user is using the newest OS.

 

[phyz]

You assume that every Mac user is using the newest OS.

No rush; I'll wait.

Or correctly assume that the answer to my query is "none." And if the answer to my query is "none," then the appropriate response would be "none." Simple enough: straightforward answer to a straightforward question.

And the newsflash for those just joining us in the present is that OS X has been de reguire since 2002.

 

[CFLarsen]

No rush; I'll wait.

Or correctly assume that the answer to my query is "none." And if the answer to my query is "none," then the appropriate response would be "none." Simple enough: straightforward answer to a straightforward question.

And the newsflash for those just joining us in the present is that OS X has been de reguire since 2002.

There is absolutely nobody out there with an old Mac? Really? That's amazing.

 

[Ducky]

What electronic file has a Mac user sent you since, say TAM4, that you couldn't open on your PC? I'm just curious.

I can add the anecdote that I have sent Claus files from my macs and he had no problem opening it. In fact he sent me one and I had no problem with it either.

 

[CFLarsen]

I can add the anecdote that I have sent Claus files from my macs and he had no problem opening it. In fact he sent me one and I had no problem with it either.

I haven't said that it was impossible.

 

[phyz]

There is absolutely nobody out there with an old Mac? Really? That's amazing.

Nobody looking to do the kind of business that was the context of your Rip Van Winkle argument. There was a point here, I'm kinda hoping you'll stick to it long enough to realize how wrong it is. But the evidence that you've abandoned it indicates that that might have already happened.

 

[Ducky]

I haven't said that it was impossible.

So how many times in the past year have you had someone with a mac send you something you couldn't access?


ETA:

This was the question you have not answered:

What electronic file has a Mac user sent you since, say TAM4, that you couldn't open on your PC? I'm just curious.

 

[CFLarsen]

Nobody looking to do the kind of business that was the context of your Rip Van Winkle argument. There was a point here, I'm kinda hoping you'll stick to it long enough to realize how wrong it is. But the evidence that you've abandoned it indicates that that might have already happened.

I haven't abandoned it at all. I am just stunned that there are no users out there with old Macs. Simply stunned.

And yes, I'm being sarcastic.

So how many times in the past year have you had someone with a mac send you something you couldn't access?

ETA:

This was the question you have not answered:

It's not a question of what happens to one person.

 

[Ian Osborne]

I haven't abandoned it at all. I am just stunned that there are no users out there with old Macs. Simply stunned.

And no users of old PCs who face similar problems? No? Well, probably not - if you haven't updated your computer since 1995, you probably don't spend much time sharing files with other people. But this applies to Macs too, y'know...

It's not a question of what happens to one person.

None, then?

 

[Ducky]

It's not a question of what happens to one person.

Then answer the question. Do you have any firsthand experience for the strawman argument you are tossing about?

Thing is, there are absolutely NO software suites in any function for either PC or MAC that do not allow you to save in a format openable by the other. Teek's problems are therefore not a problem inherent to having either a mac or a PC, and your argument is nothing but you betraying a very woo-ish anti-mac bias.

So evasion noted. You haven't aswered the question.