Passenger killed by air marshall

[Mark]

That's an interesting opinion.

How is it possible to give up your rights?

Rights are granted by the State. If you shout "I've got a bomb" in a crowded airport the State will take away your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And there will be no appeal.

You may not like it---I don't either---but that's the harsh reality.

 

[Freakshow]

Rights are granted by the State. If you shout "I've got a bomb" in a crowded airport the State will take away your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And there will be no appeal.

You may not like it---I don't either---but that's the harsh reality.

We also have the right to walk around society as free citizens. Until we do something like kidnapping, carjacking, armed robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc. We then give up that right to walk around as a free citizen, and have to go live in a cage for a while.

 

[mumblethrax]

Silly me, I've always though hispanic people look like white people. I don't think of them as being "non-white". In fact, when I saw a photo of him yesterday, I didn't even realize he was hispanic. I guess I just don't fit into the liberal stereotype of a white American (and non-liberal) male. I don't actually think much about race or skin color, actually.

Ideally, of course, we would all reject the notion of race as an invalid social construct.

In reality, we don't. By failing to think about race, we tacitly endorse the current social attitudes, which are less egalitarian than we'd hope.

Regardless of whether you identified him as hispanic, it's very likely that the officer in question did. So the question of whether he might have used different judgment in a different situation is valid, even where you would have acted consistently.

 

[pgwenthold]

Rights are granted by the State. If you shout "I've got a bomb" in a crowded airport the State will take away your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And there will be no appeal.

[appeal to founding fathers]
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness.
[/appeal]

According to the FF, it is "self-evident" that rights "endowed by their creator," not the state.

The next line says that it is the government's job to SECURE these rights.

 

[Mark]

[appeal to founding fathers]
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness.
[/appeal]

According to the FF, it is "self-evident" that rights "endowed by their creator," not the state.

The next line says that it is the government's job to SECURE these rights.

I am aware of that, and philosophically I agree. Nevertheless, despite our wishful thinking, those rights can be taken away any time the State feels like it. Witness the Patriot Act if you don't belive me.

 

[Mycroft]

We also have the right to walk around society as free citizens. Until we do something like kidnapping, carjacking, armed robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc. We then give up that right to walk around as a free citizen, and have to go live in a cage for a while.

Perhaps Larsan is confused, thinking we meant you give up all your rights.

You would still have the right to remain silent, the right to an attorney...

 

[CFLarsen]

Wouldn't you say that, for example, engaging in a gun battle with police officers temporarily - i.e. for the duration of the firefight - gives up your right to life?

Of course not.

 

[CFLarsen]

We also have the right to walk around society as free citizens. Until we do something like kidnapping, carjacking, armed robbery, rape, murder, assault, etc. We then give up that right to walk around as a free citizen, and have to go live in a cage for a while.

Interesting that you left out a crucial part: That, before you go live in a cage for a while, you are tried before a judge and jury.

 

[Mark]

Interesting that you left out a crucial part: That, before you go live in a cage for a while, you are tried before a judge and jury.

Not if you shout, "I've got a bomb!" in a crowded airport.

 

[CFLarsen]

Rights are granted by the State. If you shout "I've got a bomb" in a crowded airport the State will take away your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And there will be no appeal.

You may not like it---I don't either---but that's the harsh reality.

I didn't ask who granted the rights, and I didn't ask you to reiterate your statement.

I asked you how it is possible to give up your rights.

 

[CFLarsen]

Not if you shout, "I've got a bomb!" in a crowded airport.

Note that it wasn't what Freakshow listed.

 

[Mark]

I didn't ask who granted the rights, and I didn't ask you to reiterate your statement.

I asked you how it is possible to give up your rights.

I don't know how else to explain it. If you shout "I've got a bomb!" in a crowded airport you will very likely give up your right to live. No court. No appeal.

If you commit a felony in this country, you give up your right to vote. You had the right to vote, now you do not have that right...and you gave it up by comitting the felony. Got it?

 

[CFLarsen]

I don't know how else to explain it. If you shout "I've got a bomb!" in a crowded airport you will very likely give up your right to live. No court. No appeal.

If you commit a felony in this country, you give up your right to vote. You had the right to vote, now you do not have that right...and you gave it up by comitting the felony. Got it?

Yep, I get it.

You can't explain how it is possible to give up your rights. You can only state that it is.

 

[Mark]

Yep, I get it.

You can't explain how it is possible to give up your rights. You can only state that it is.

???????

Maybe I am missing your point. I gave 2 examples. What doesn't make sense to you?

With the voting example...commit a felony, lose the right to vote. How can you possibly not understand that?

 

[CFLarsen]

I get it fine.

 

[Grammatron]

???????

Maybe I am missing your point. I gave 2 examples. What doesn't make sense to you?

With the voting example...commit a felony, lose the right to vote. How can you possibly not understand that?

Mark, as a friend I am compelled to tell you to stop talking to a wall. It's unhealthy

 

[Jocko]

I am aware of that, and philosophically I agree. Nevertheless, despite our wishful thinking, those rights can be taken away any time the State feels like it. Witness the Patriot Act if you don't belive me.

Actually, Mark, the state can only abrograte your rights in following through on law passed by congress and upheld by the supreme court, not "any time it feels like it." And yes, that includes the standing provisions of the Patriot Act as well. You don't have to like it, but I'd prefer you understand it.

 

[Mark]

Mark, as a friend I am compelled to tell you to stop talking to a wall. It's unhealthy

True...thanks.

 

[Jocko]

Yep, I get it.

You can't explain how it is possible to give up your rights. You can only state that it is.

Congratulations, Kevin, et al., for turning this thread into another exhibition of loosely constitutionally-themed intellectual scandinavian masturbation. Thanks a million.

 

[Mark]

Actually, Mark, the state can only abrograte your rights in following through on law passed by congress and upheld by the supreme court, not "any time it feels like it." And yes, that includes the standing provisions of the Patriot Act as well. You don't have to like it, but I'd prefer you understand it.

I wasn't speaking only of this State. In any case, I would say the State cancelled that fellow's rights at the airport pretty effectively, wouldn't you? I don't recall congress getting involved.

As I said, I am not saying I agree with it...but that is the reality. Especially with one party controlling everything.