Pandemic Panic Must Stop

[The Atheist]

I'd thought the level of panic over Covid might be a Kiwi problem, because we've been free of it for so long, while the media constantly refers to a "deadly disease", and delta - incorrectly - as "even deadlier than the original Covid".

Except, I've just been having a repeat argument about Covid and kids with an American, plus there's at least one person in the Aussie thread who's reached my estimated threshold for panicking about the disease instead of being rational.

In the medical thread, a poster was horrified that 1900 kids are in hospital in USA with Covid right now.

That's a very small number of kids in terms of a 300M population, and as Planigale noted:

In the UK a substantial proportion of children admitted with covid, were not admitted because of covid, they were admitted for other reasons, e.g. fallimg out of a tree and happened to have covid. In addition a lot of young children with fevers are admitted for observation to make sure they do not have something serious like meningitis.

To me, the largest problem with the constant media barrage and people panicking over the pandemic is the long-term affect it's going to have on mental health.

We know that anxiety and depression are at all-time highs prior to the pandemic, and putting kids in a state of constant panic will be disastrous. we also know for sure that the number one thing that helps kids in all ways is education, and we're interrupting that badly.

Once a country gets to 70% vaccination, things must return to some semblance of normality. UK seems to have hit the spot, and Europe seems to be much the same - you hit a spot where infections flatten out and the number of deaths from Covid are no worse than seasonal 'flu and an order of magnitude lower than cardiac deaths. (Yes, Israel is an outlier)

Living in constant fear is worse than the disease.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

It'll be over when it's over and not a moment before.

 

[The Atheist]

Right on cue, the very next page I open links to this:

Far from slipping back into the lockdown groove of daily walks and distance learning, the past week has sent stress and anxiety levels “through the roof” in her Ōtara* community.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/ed...cipal-says-this-lockdown-is-the-worst-one-yet


*The boundary of Otara starts 2 km down the road from me.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

My previous reply was very simplistic, but I can elaborate... That 'small percentage' of children potentially dying from a cold is far far greater than the zero normally seen. How selfish is it to demand a return to normalcy and lack of fear when the fear is of something real and actually killing/maiming people?

Microorganisms are the last predator the human race has, and it's disappointing that we no longer have the fortitude to eliminate our predators, it's so much easier just to let them rampage and so long as it's 'those other people over there' being eaten why do we need to even try to protect ourselves?

 

[plague311]

I'm not totally sure what this thread is trying to say. The ICU's are overrun in some areas, and the damage is having long-term health effects on people of all ages in the U.S. Is this aimed at the US, UK, India, etc.? The U.S. can't just shrug this off and they really shouldn't. If the UK has reached its goal, and infections are under control, then they should do as they wish.

It's pretty ridiculous to tell a nation of 300M people to "stop with the pandemic panic" when there are doctors walking out of hospitals and a large portion of the population still refusing to get vaccinated.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Said poster is not panicking.

As for being "horrified", bull ****. You said 1900 was a drop in the bucket and I asked you to think again about that. In addition I pointed out all the associated damage like the kids spreading COVID to others and how terrified the child in the news story I linked to was. Tell a child they have COVID when they've heard over and over it kills people is traumatic for that child.

Now here you are bitching in another thread about it.

 

[lionking]

There are children under 10 in intensive care units in Australia with covid. A 30 year old woman died in Sydney yesterday of covid.

Your opinion is rubbish.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The psychopathic "People are dying for no reason, but the thing I really want to focus on is a small group of people being (my own definition of) overdramatic in a way that hurts absolutely nobody" attitude is some real edgelord crap.

I wish people would grow out of the "Not giving a **** about other people means I'm more logical, mature, and unemotional" flex real ******* quick.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

I'd thought the level of panic over Covid might be a Kiwi problem, because we've been free of it for so long, while the media constantly refers to a "deadly disease", and delta - incorrectly - as "even deadlier than the original Covid".

Except, I've just been having a repeat argument about Covid and kids with an American, plus there's at least one person in the Aussie thread who's reached my estimated threshold for panicking about the disease instead of being rational.

In the medical thread, a poster was horrified that 1900 kids are in hospital in USA with Covid right now.

That's a very small number of kids in terms of a 300M population, and as Planigale noted:



To me, the largest problem with the constant media barrage and people panicking over the pandemic is the long-term affect it's going to have on mental health.

We know that anxiety and depression are at all-time highs prior to the pandemic, and putting kids in a state of constant panic will be disastrous. we also know for sure that the number one thing that helps kids in all ways is education, and we're interrupting that badly.

Once a country gets to 70% vaccination, things must return to some semblance of normality. UK seems to have hit the spot, and Europe seems to be much the same - you hit a spot where infections flatten out and the number of deaths from Covid are no worse than seasonal 'flu and an order of magnitude lower than cardiac deaths. (Yes, Israel is an outlier)

Living in constant fear is worse than the disease.

Living in constant fear is a feature, not a bug.

 

[deadrose]

People are also dying of non-Covid causes because the hospitals are jammed full of Covid patients. Very bad time to get in an accident, or have a stroke or heart attack.

 

[Segnosaur]

Except, I've just been having a repeat argument about Covid and kids with an American, plus there's at least one person in the Aussie thread who's reached my estimated threshold for panicking about the disease instead of being rational.

I guess the big question is: where is the dividing line between a reasonable/rational reaction to the situation (such as mask mandates) and a panic reaction.

In the medical thread, a poster was horrified that 1900 kids are in hospital in USA with Covid right now.

That's a very small number of kids in terms of a 300M population

True, that's a small number of hospitalized given the total population. But...
- There are also probably thousands of kids who are extremely ill who haven't been hospitalized, and might suffer symptoms of 'long covid' for months.
- At least part of the reason the numbers are so low is that some people ARE taking the risks seriously (by engaging in social distancing, wearing masks, etc.)

 

[crescent]

People are also dying of non-Covid causes because the hospitals are jammed full of Covid patients. Very bad time to get in an accident, or have a stroke or heart attack.

An old friend of mine is in that boat. Trying to recover from some significant cancer treatments, and needs a stem cell transplant to do that.

The treatment has been postponed indefinitely due to a lack of hospital beds. They are all filled up with people who refused the vaccine.

Maybe he'll die from some disease that doesn't impact people with functioning immune systems, or maybe the cancer will come back without enough immune response to stop it. Maybe he'll get Covid and die real fast because his immune system is trashed and can't gain any benefit from vaccines until after he gets that indefinitely-postponed treatment.

I guess The Atheist thinks that's nothing to worry about though.

 

[Norman Alexander]

For TA, it appears that anything other than bring sanguine and laid back about COVID for everyone else while looking out for number one first is "panic".

 

[d4m10n]

Living in constant fear is worse than the disease.

Fear is an adaptation, it helps you get through life for a longer time than utter fearlessness.

Fear is why I look both ways before crossing the street to get back to my car, buckle up once I get there, and check my blind spots along the way. Fear is why I got my family vaccinated and refuse to hang about with my anti-vax inlaws. Fear is why we buy mushrooms at the greengrocer instead of eating the ones which happen to crop up in the yard.

Of course it's possible to a weight fears too heavily when doing cost/benefit calcs, but if we're going to talk about those, we have to be quite specific.

 

[Trebuchet]

Shorter TA: Dead American kids are of no concern to me!

 

[The Atheist]

How selfish is it to demand a return to normalcy and lack of fear when the fear is of something real and actually killing/maiming people?

That's a common argument, and I believe a completely nonsense one.

We accept risk as a feature of life. We don't enforce cars to drive at 10 mph so nobody gets killed, we don't stop selling fatty foods that cause immense numbers of early deaths, and we don't cut down all the trees in case a kid falls out of it.

If you're saying the only number of acceptable deaths from Covid is zero, then please explain why other deaths don't matter as much.

I'm not totally sure what this thread is trying to say.

I did say it, but I'll repeat it for you:

...panicking about the disease instead of being rational.

And I'll unpack that a little so there's no confusion:

Taking precautions is good and vaccines are excellent, but working up states of panic is bad.

The ICU's are overrun in some areas,...

Where vaccine resistance is high. I have zero sympathy for people who choose not to be vaccinated and I'd leave them in the carpark if it were down to me.

How many kids are in ICUs? If there are 1900 kids in USA with Covid, I'm picking the number is going to be very, very small.

It's pretty ridiculous to tell a nation of 300M people to "stop with the pandemic panic" when there are doctors walking out of hospitals and a large portion of the population still refusing to get vaccinated.

How is panic aiding the fight against the disease?

There are children under 10 in intensive care units in Australia with covid. A 30 year old woman died in Sydney yesterday of covid.

Your opinion is rubbish.

How many kids under 10 have required ICU care in Australia?

Don't bother looking it up, I can tell you. Zero.

If you're looking for zero harm from Covid, please review the question I put to Silly Green Monkey and let me know why you aren't campaigning to have speed limits reduced and stop the sale of bacon.

The psychopathic "People are dying for no reason, but the thing I really want to focus on is a small group of people being (my own definition of) overdramatic in a way that hurts absolutely nobody" attitude is some real edgelord crap.

Unlike making up a strawman to create faux outrage?

I wish people would grow out of the "Not giving a **** about other people means I'm more logical, mature, and unemotional" flex real ******* quick.

As for lionking and SGM, please let me know what level of death and harm you'd accept and save yourself a whole lot of asterisks.

 

[Delvo]

This kind of attitude is exactly why the current situation has gotten as bad as it is. We would have hammered it down long ago if we were contending with just the virus alone, instead of the virus plus this kind of moronic drivel to deliberately help the virus out as much as humanly possible.

 

[Norman Alexander]

How many kids under 10 have required ICU care in Australia?

Don't bother looking it up, I can tell you. Zero.

Do you even read your own sources??

More than 200 young kids diagnosed with COVID-19 in one weekend

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw...rly-to-talk-about-school-20210822-p58kwt.html

I work in a major children's hospital in Sydney. I can confirm for you the number in ICU is definitely NOT zero.

 

[The Atheist]

Living in constant fear is a feature, not a bug.

It seems that way.

People are also dying of non-Covid causes because the hospitals are jammed full of Covid patients. Very bad time to get in an accident, or have a stroke or heart attack.

Bingo!

I guess the big question is: where is the dividing line between a reasonable/rational reaction to the situation (such as mask mandates) and a panic reaction.

That's exactly my point.

True, that's a small number of hospitalized given the total population. But...
- There are also probably thousands of kids who are extremely ill who haven't been hospitalized, and might suffer symptoms of 'long covid' for months.

I'd say it a certainty there will be thousands, but how many thousand?

If it's 5000, I wouldn't think it's much of a problem at 0.00007% of all children.

Find some actual numbers if you want to go down that path. And if you're so worried about long-term negative outcomes, why doesn't the mental health of millions of kids bother you?

Fear is an adaptation, it helps you get through life for a longer time than utter fearlessness.

Fear isn't panic, but constant fear may cause lifelong anxiety, and since people are so concerned about long Covid, I'd expect them to be concerned about that even more, given the enormous downside of people with mental health issues. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7441973/

Of course it's possible to a weight fears too heavily when doing cost/benefit calcs, but if we're going to talk about those, we have to be quite specific.

The constant state of panic being encouraged by media and scaredy-cats. You may recognise some of the signs in this thread - and the ever-present "Why won't you think of the children?" or "He doesn't care about kids!"

Shorter TA: Dead American kids are of no concern to me!

That's entirely incorrect. I care deeply about dead American children, which is why I laugh at statements like that.

How many kids die from gunshot wounds in America every year? How many die in car crashes?

Hint - both are a lot more than ten times greater than the number of kids dying of Covid.

 

[The Atheist]

Do you even read your own sources??

Sure I do, but it seems you don't, so I've taken a screenshot for you:

I work in a major children's hospital in Sydney. I can confirm for you the number in ICU is definitely NOT zero.

Best you go have a talk to the Australian Government Department of Health, then. They're the one saying it.

And how many kids are in ICU right now from car crashes, falls, and other issues?